Bailiff Company and refusing a payment plan

[hyperjase]

Hi all,

 

This has got me thinking, I'm sure this isn't right but I may be wrong ....

 

My partner has received a letter from a Bailiff Company (Rossendales) who are pinning £1200 of council tax on her. The letter is in joint names, hers and her ex-husbands (who lives somewhere else, with someone else, we have no idea of his new address). After numerous calls, they are demanding full payment, my partner gave them her ex-husbands contact details but was told that if they couldn't get in touch with him, SHE would liable for the whole amount.

 

To cut a long story short, regular small payments £20/£30 are being made monthly, she sent off a income/expenditure form to the company, showing negative income (basically more going out that coming in). She asked for a payment plan to be set up, the most she can afford being £30, they refused saying they want half of the total amount, in full. Obviously that isn't possible, but the regular monthly payments are still being paid, now her ex-husband is paying £50 per month. They also claim that the paperwork is being prepared for the bailiff team to come and visit (I've read about this, and won't be inviting them in!). If they have refused the payment plan, are they entitled to continue with these proceedings?

 

They also claim if the van attends they will charge a minimum of £110, is this legal? I read somewhere about being a max of £24.50!

 

I would also like to add that at NO point has my partner been aware of any of this, until the letter from Rossendales dropped onto our mat, 2nd September 2009. The council tax dates back to the beginning of the year. At that point her ex-husband was living there, and obviously not paying any of this.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks for your help,

 

HJ

[pink_eeyore]

They are not obligated to accept payment plans but contact the council and sent them the means info and try and get them to instruct the bailiffs to accept the plan.

 

In the meantime keep making regular payments as this demonstrates your willingness to pay what you can and do not let them in.

 

Even if they do visit (and do not gain entry) the max they can charge you is 24.50 for the 1st visit and 18.00 for the second.

 

If you have a car, park it away from your house as they could levy on it if they find it.

[seanamarts]

I would certainly contact the council out lining the situation here with regards to your partner. If she was unaware of this then she needs to make that clear and show proof that she was not in occupation of the property the council may say that because her name was still on the council tax bill she is still liable for it but if she can prove that she wasnt there at the times stated then they may give her the benefit of the doubt and reduce the payments and decide that they will deal with it. get a letter off to them asap and also send a letter to the bailiff company detailing what you are doing.

[dx100uk]

if you can pay then do it to the council direct via internet banking

 

ignore the bailiffs totally.

 

pers i would find out direct from the council how much the bill is for, halve it, then get paying that off.

 

dx

[hyperjase]

Thanks for the info, most helpful.

 

Re the charge for "van" - the claim £110, can I tell them that they simply cannot charge this and if they add this to the total it's unlawful? Just trying to get all the balls in our court so I can fire them back when/if they start.

 

Cheers again

[dx100uk]

i'd contact the council , get the truth about what you actually owe, then arrange payment plan with them and bypass the bailiff and their fees totally. also - find out if they have been getting these payments you have already made to the bailiffs, i bet not!

 

dx

[hyperjase]

Thanks I will follow that route, there is a lot here but all good positive advice, it's worried me about the cars as we need 2; one to get me to work and one to get two teenagers to school, the latter would be impossible to do without a car, however, that car is on finance, which they can't take? Mine is paid for .. so that would be better to hide from them?

 

Thanks again

[dx100uk]

i'd take that precaution for the moment yes.

 

dx

[hyperjase]

My partner has just made a very good point:

 

The car is registered to me (both of them), there are two names on the letter from the Bailiff company, and mine is not one of them. From what I've read they cannot take anything that is mine -- only whatever is in my partner's name.

 

Another thing to throw in the mix; the house is rented by me, solely, mine is the only name on the tenancy agreement, does that change it further?

[seanamarts]

they can only take items that belong to your partner. If niether car is in her name then they cant levy on them

[ambershadow]

They have no right to enter anyway if you have not let them in before.. and if all is in your name they haven't really got a leg to stand on have they?

 

Make sure the insurance is is your name too and he/she a name driver as just because your names on the logg book doesn't mean you are the legal owner

[hyperjase]

She is a named driver on one insurance policy and her name is the main driver on the second -- does that change anything? The one that she is the main driver is the one that's on finance, so I'm presuming, they couldn't put a levy on anyway.

[dx100uk]

no they cant levy on an HP car.

as for names on insurance, makes no odds, its registered to you, its yours...go away bailiffs!!

 

dx

[hyperjase]

Thanks for clarification, all understood now, looks like they won't have a leg to stand on -- or even at least one to get through the door.

 

What would happen if they got a "foot in the door", I've seen this done before on TV -- is that beyond what they should be doing? I have no intentions of allowing them in anyway but I'm just covering all possible angles.

[ambershadow]

Yes they did that to me at 5.30 in the morning he put his foot their so I couldn't shut the door.. I called the police too and they stood with the bailiffs on that so don't open the door to them..

 

As for the insurance I would be careful as on the logg book it says about not being the legal owner

[binded]

If the vehicle not on hp is in your name and you are not liable (debt being partner and her ex) the best way forward as I've found is to get a signed affidavit/declaration signed by a solicitor or at the county court. I had to do it at the former as its nearer and cost me £5 (less than it would have cost me to get to the courts). They don't accept a log book as proof of ownership, I guess as you could have one and merely not have sent it off yet. I had to do a verbal sworn declaration at the solicitors to state the vehicle I was claiming was not nor ever had been was mine. Theres a thread on this forum somewhere which I used for the template, definately worth a search maybes? A receipt of ownership is a different matter, if you have one for your car, that and the hp/finance documents stating the the other car is owned by that company and neither yourself or your partner.

 

Pain in the arse, but they can't deny it if you've made a legally binding document. I've not heard back from the bailiffs in my instance yet but I've made it a pretty sticky situation for them as I've written proof from the delightful lady bailiff that she will and can take it (daft really as I've now legal proof she can't ).

 

I'd recommend getting a detailed breakdown of the account so you can actually see what has been paid I'm quite sure the bailiffs aren't going to be forth coming in stating what is owing now, despite it being paid by two parties. I'd also want to know if it were me, why your partner is the only one being chased with vehicle levy's etc if she's jointly liable with her ex partner (anther thing I'm fighting at the moment).

 

From my experience I've decided not to verbally have contact with the bailiff at all, they only surmise in trying to trip me up and verbally threaten me of which I'd have to record all phone calls to prove my part in them (I'd not talk without it being recorded knowing what I do now). I've kept everything in writing and sent everything recorded so it has to be signed for. Make sure you get copies of everything and that your partner forwards these onto the council as well.

[hyperjase]

A receipt of ownership is a different matter, if you have one for your car, that and the hp/finance documents stating the the other car is owned by that company and neither yourself or your partner.

 

I have a receipt for my car, the one that was bought cash and (pretty obviously) the V5. The car on HP was bought in my name, I have all the documents, the ONLY thing that partner has to do with the car is her name is first on the car insurance.

 

I'd also want to know if it were me, why your partner is the only one being chased with vehicle levy's etc if she's jointly liable with her ex partner (anther thing I'm fighting at the moment).

 

This is because her name now appears on the Council Tax for where myself and her live, this was done so she'd have some sort of proof, but they tracked her down with that info. Her ex has "moved out" unofficially, in reality he's not changed his address to his new one, we've found out in the past week or so he's moved again, we have no idea where to, but my partner spoke to him and he agreed on the phone to pay £50 a month - I know this is only verbal and he'll likely break that, but because my partner is the only person they can find, they hold her wholly liable for the total amount.

 

Sucks eh?

 

Thanks for your help, from everyone, it's very much appreciated.

[binded]

sucks yes in the same situation myself so am being held totally cupable for a liability in two names so completely appreciated where you're coming from on this. I'm perhaps a step ahead of you in this struggle so explaining what I've done so far. The bailiffs claimed to have clamped my landlords car (and am waiting for proof they're charging me £60 an hour for the priveledge of them waiting), I've verbally stated the vehicle isn't mine in letters, however you will need to provide some proof that it is not her vehicle or they will continue threatening that action as they see fit, Rossendales have with me.

 

Your partner is the easy target in all of this, like me she has a known address to the bailiff, thats why they will continue to persue her. You still need to obtain the details they hold and I'd recommend requesting a SAR or a screenshot of the account they hold.

 

Have you written to the council ? Your partner needs to write to them explaining the action to date of the bailiffs (with paper evidence ie letters etc), and request they take the claim back so she can make good the payments to them.

 

Its a huge uphill struggle and bailiffs are if nothing else like banging your head against a brick wall. It sadly takes time, immediately you need to get the car situation resolved, but at the same time enter talks with the council asking what actions they are doing to chase the ex partner. Just because he's made a verbal agreement as you said doesn't mean he is going to keep to it, infact if anything like mine (sadly not spoken to him as he's "working away" according to friends) then he'll be more than happy for her to pay this off and have the grief and lipservice of words to the effect he'll pay help little when dealing with the actual fact you two have the bailiffs at your door.

 

Should add, since a week on monday ago the bailiffs have not returned to my address despite having "clamped" my landlords car. Or indeed if they have they haven't left a notice, nor have I since received texts or messages from the bailiff. Doesn't mean they won't be back around but as I'm dealing in writing and stating my case to all and sundry that will listen, it has temporarily halted things and I hope to hear from the council at some point to state they are taking the case back. At which point I can then reveiw what is owed to the bailiffs, of which the very least of there fees have already been paid for two visits to myself.

[seanamarts]

Placing a foot in the door is not allowed at all, and if you shut the door on his foot.. tough as it should not be there. When you ask a bailiff to leave your property, they should leave even if he gain a peaceful access. The police are NOT allowed to assist a bailiff in gaining access unless a court orders them to do so. When a bailiff does not leave your property when you ask him it is classed as trespassing and if the bailiff calls the police there is nothing they can do as this is a civil matter and can only be there to make sure that no criminal matter occur on either side.

[hyperjase]

i'd contact the council , get the truth about what you actually owe, then arrange payment plan with them and bypass the bailiff and their fees totally. also - find out if they have been getting these payments you have already made to the bailiffs, i bet not!

 

dx

 

She has just tried calling them - they won't accept the debt back; basically, tough. They said if she was on income support she'd have to pay the bailiff's fee's then it would be passed back.

 

We have had official word back that it's now with a bailiff and to contact him via mobile telephone (which we won't) - I found a stock letter setting up a payment plan with the company which I will do later and send recorded delivery to them.

 

Any suggestions or advice from here?

 

Thanks once again.

Edited September 24, 2009 by hyperjase

[dx100uk]

you are not asking them to accept the debt back, [yet]

you are asking them for a statement upon what is outstanding toTHEM

you also need to clarify IF they have been getting the [token] payments made to the bailiff, if not WHY not , where is that money? [their problem to find it - NOT yours].

 

phoning is p'haps not the best method by letter is best

though if you must phone, find out number of the cheif enforcement officer for council tax and explain your case particularly the point above and state you suspect the bailiiff demanding illegal fees and pocketing money [or words to the effect!]

 

now, did you check him out on the site, is he licenced?

 

dx

[lucie1973]

just read your thread, be careful with the car on finance, i had exactly the same situation, where the bailiff reckoned he could take the vehicle even if it was on finance, i phoned my finance company and they said that the bailiffs could clamp the vehicle and lift it but could not do anything with it and would have to return it, which is fine but its the inconvenience of it all, as the bailiff reckoned he could keep it for a week in a pound, i still have not got to the bottom of whether this is true and whether my finance company gave me the right information

[hyperjase]

you are not asking them to accept the debt back, [yet]

you are asking them for a statement upon what is outstanding toTHEM

you also need to clarify IF they have been getting the [token] payments made to the bailiff, if not WHY not , where is that money? [their problem to find it - NOT yours].

 

Will get on to that tomorrow, I have a feeling that won't be the case, there is £70 sitting in their account. We've also sent a stock letter (the one from the sticky thread on here) -- will be sending it recorded delivery to them and the council in question.

 

now, did you check him out on the site, is he licenced?

 

Yes : Warren Leslie Paterson/Burnley Combined Court Centre/05/05/2009-04/05/2011/Rossendales Ltd (to be honest, we only know his surname but all details seem to match)

 

At least we know he's legal!

[hyperjase]

Quick update:

 

When were made aware that this would be passed to a Bailiff individual we contacted them with a fair offer to clear the debt over a fair amount of time. This was refused and we were informed:

 

Thank you for your recent email.

 

I have checked your file & confirm it is now in the hands of our removal bailiff, Mr. Patterson. You must deal with Mr. Patterson directly on 07515974XXX. Payment in full is now required.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

After this, we set about sending the letter (the one we got from the sticky thread on this forum), we also emailed it so they had some sort of notice:

 

I understand West Lancashire District Council has appointed you to recover my Council Tax Liability arrears of £1194.71.

 

Firstly I would like to make you aware that I am fully aware of my rights and you will not gain entry to my home under any circumstances to levy goods and I know the fees allowed under statute and when these fees can be applied.

 

Due to my circumstances I am unable to pay this in one payment. I advocate a payment schedule of 24 months with 23 months payments at £50 and the balance of £44.71 to be paid on the 24th month to cover the principle. I understand this may seem a long time but this is a realistic offer that is affordable to me and will allow me to pay future bills issued for Council Tax without them falling into arrears. A greater amount would cause me real and actual hardship.

 

I am able to pay the above amount on the first (1st) of each month, I have already commenced payment by paying £70 online via your payment system. Please advise how you would like future payments made. My personal preference is payment by Web Payment on your website.

 

It should be noted that I am not at any point refusing to pay this debt but only asking for a fair payment period considering my circumstances. And if you are unable to accept my offer I will place the money aside each month until such a time the council take the account back into their management, when I will make payment of the set aside money to the council.

 

Please also send an itemised statement of account that clearly shows what charges have been added and what for, you are required in statute to supply this information and I look forward to this within 14 days.

 

I am sending the council a copy of this letter and requesting that it be filled with my account for further reference.

 

I hope the above meets your approval and I look forward to your timely reply by letter.

 

This letter will be sent via Recorded Delivery to your office.

 

They did actually reply to this, here is their reply:

 

Thank you for your email.

At this time instalments are no longer available and the full balance must be paid in order to avoid any enforcement action.

To discuss repayment of your council tax arrears please contact the bailiff in charge as previously stated.

A statement of your account has been produced and will be posted to you today. Please note that it reflects only fees charged up to close of business Friday and further fees may be incurred as a result of attendance to your property by the bailiff.

Yours sincerely,

 

 

Now we sent one back saying that we were not prepared to deal with this via mobile telephone, only via recorded letter, we asked that they supply the address of the Bailiff in question (the person) and we will write to him. Up to this point, we have not had a reply, I suspect maybe because they know the address he will be registered at is their own address! He is registered with the company and I suspect that now they are in a situation which they can't defend. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how the situation seems. Will let you know of any further developments. As of today, it's been 3 days since we were told it was issued to a Bailiff (individual) and have had no knocks on the door.

Edited September 29, 2009 by hyperjase

[dx100uk]

start paying what you have offered direct to the council via internet banking. they cannot refuse that.

 

i would also email them each time.

 

then if the bailiff turns up

tell him you are dealing direct with the council.

 

see how that goes

 

dx