UK debt being Chased in Australia

[cerberusalert]

The last letter was a letter before action and referred to a reduced payment, which they said would be noted on the credit file as a partial payment.

They cannot take any action and they certainly cannot register it on your Oz credit file which has already been noted on this thread.

 

Ignore the muppets.

[vint1954]

Thanks for the info.

 

Wondered if someone could give me some advice as to what I do now? Do I need to make contact with the DCA in UK? Not sure what to do next. The last letter was a letter before action and referred to a reduced payment, which they said would be noted on the credit file as a partial payment.

 

Having now read various threads on this site I have come to understand that this is not a full and final settlement and whilst they get their money, if we coughed up, they are likely to sell on debt for balance with next shark asking for balance or more! Have a limited time to make contact but not sure what to do at this stage or if there is anything that I should be doing at this stage. Do I just need to sit tight? Assume it will be farmed out to their solicitors to deal then but not sure.

 

If I am supposed to make contact, does this have to be by paper mail or can it be online via e-mail?

 

Urgent advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

Jazzi

Try exposing your neck and bareing your jugular. One will be along shortly afterwards.

 

It depends when and if you intend to come back to the UK?

 

As ODC says, probably best to ignore them, another offer will be along shortly.

 

 

Don't think that they can get a judgement if you live abroad.

 

In general, the reduced offer is a last plea for something. Why do that if they have a good chance of winning in court. The usual format is to get you to pay a short settlement, then sell it on again for others to chase the ballance.

 

Who is the DCA and does it involve MBNA?

[ODC]

They know you live in Oz so they cannot get a CCJ because a CCJ can only be registered at your UK address. So unless you want to have some fun with them then ignore them. They are having a last throw of the dice before selling it on to some of the bottom feeders like Clownells or Muck Hall

[Jazzi]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated. Can breathe a little easier now.

 

No intention of going back to uk.

 

Am I allowed to mentioned the DCA's name? It's not with the MBNA but Crapola One!

 

Jazzi

[ODC]

CAPONE hahhahahah

 

They wouldnt know an enforceable CCA if it bit them on the bum

[citizenB]

Hi guys,

 

Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated. Can breathe a little easier now.

 

No intention of going back to uk.

 

Am I allowed to mentioned the DCA's name? It's not with the MBNA but Crapola One!

 

Jazzi

 

CAPONE hahhahahah

 

They wouldnt know an enforceable CCA if it bit them on the bum

 

It had to be a toss up between either MBNA or CapOne didnt it

 

Jazzi, neither of the companies above believe that they have to abide by UK laws... that should tell you something about them.

[Bodgit]

G'day All,

 

Just had a chat with the CRA people here in Aus that are doing an investigation into the DCA listings.

 

They have scheduled a meeting with the DCA for this monday prior to making a decision whether to remove the listings on our files.

 

Never heard of this before. Wondering if the CRA are going to offer them a get out clause for the DCA to remove the listings themselves as if they don't there are potential huge fines involved....

 

any other thoughts?

 

Bodgit

[cashins]

They have scheduled a meeting with the DCA for this monday prior to making a decision whether to remove the listings on our files.

 

Never heard of this before. Wondering if the CRA are going to offer them a get out clause for the DCA to remove the listings themselves as if they don't there are potential huge fines involved....

 

 

 

Wouldn't have thought the CRA would have been over the moon regarding the potential liabilty they are carrying.

 

David

[patrickq1]

Had a quick look for Barclayshark and it comes up for all groups- None outside the European Economic Area

 

The company over here is not registered in UK but they are a part of the TCM Group International Limited, but again nothing comes up.

 

If Barclaycard are the OC and they have onsold a debt overseas and they state they do not transfer Data outside the EU zone, then surely they have breached the Data Protection act!! or am I mistaken.

 

Bodgit

Our Partners - TCM UK - International Debt Collection

[mr-b]

Our Partners - TCM UK - International Debt Collection

 

 

ok so do i ignore these letters or not now i am confused?>:twisted:

[ODC]

Ignore them. They CANNOT enforce a UK debt abroad UNLESS a CCJ was issued before you left the UK

[mr-b]

Ignore them. They CANNOT enforce a UK debt abroad UNLESS a CCJ was issued before you left the UK

 

and i would have to have had a summons for that to have happened?

 

how do i check my credit file in australia? they say they placed a default on my credit rating here?

 

have p*****r sph**e legal actually done this to anyone?

[Bumbobuchanan]

I am in the same boat, live in Aus and have debt in the UK which I have been trying to pay off but unfortunately have been unable to do so due to redundancy. M & S have passed my debt onto COLLECT DIRECT (UK) who state if I don't reply within 4 days then they will issue County Court Proceedings, the letter is dated 9th October and it arrived at my address in Aus today. I am hoping it is just scare tactics, should I ignore it or should I write to them pointing out they can't take me to court as no longer resident in the UK.

[dannyboy660]

I've posted this before, but I'll do it again for your perusal.

 

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200506/ldselect/ldeucom/118/118.pdf

 

I know it's European, but take a look at Q168 - it might help to put your mind at rest. Theses guys are the experts.

[cerberusalert]

I am in the same boat, live in Aus and have debt in the UK which I have been trying to pay off but unfortunately have been unable to do so due to redundancy. M & S have passed my debt onto COLLECT DIRECT (UK) who state if I don't reply within 4 days then they will issue County Court Proceedings, the letter is dated 9th October and it arrived at my address in Aus today. I am hoping it is just scare tactics, should I ignore it or should I write to them pointing out they can't take me to court as no longer resident in the UK.

In theory the reciprocal agreements can be used to try and enforce debts, in practice it is extremely expensive and impractical to do. The agreements were designed to cover high end crimes not piddly little debts.

 

It's already been mentioned earlier, for a creditor to take enforcement they would need the permission of the Australian Courts & to have that they would need to have an England/Wales CCJ in place over here. They can't do that because under UK law a CCJ can only be registered against a England/Wales resident. Even if your creditor had managed to obtain a CCJ via the back-door, i.e having had the court papers served at your last known England/Wales address you would be able to have it set aside because you were/are not a resident here.

 

Any contract you signed will have had a clause in it stating something along the lines that it was governed by UK law so any subsequent action would have to be tried under UK law, all an Australian court would do would be to ratify any existing judgement. So now the wheel turns full circle and it ends up back at the CCJ stage which is needed before the Australian Courts can intervene....and the cycle continues.

[dannyboy660]

'Any contract you signed will have had a clause in it stating something along the lines that it was governed by UK law so any subsequent action would have to be tried under UK law, all an Australian court would do would be to ratify any existing judgement....'

 

I think in CCA'74 it comes under s.141, handing jurisdiction to UK county courts and the High Court. Highly unlikely they'd bother with the High Court for an unsecured debt. Too expensive and not really worthwhile, I would think.

[ODC]

I am in the same boat, live in Aus and have debt in the UK which I have been trying to pay off but unfortunately have been unable to do so due to redundancy. M & S have passed my debt onto COLLECT DIRECT (UK) who state if I don't reply within 4 days then they will issue County Court Proceedings, the letter is dated 9th October and it arrived at my address in Aus today. I am hoping it is just scare tactics, should I ignore it or should I write to them pointing out they can't take me to court as no longer resident in the UK.

 

They are talking bollocks. They cannot issue County Court proceedings as you are not within the jurisdiction of any British Court. What they have send is a standard threatomatic. Posting a letter to Oz giving you 4 days to pay. How silly is that

[babybear39]

They are talking bollocks. They cannot issue County Court proceedings as you are not within the jurisdiction of any British Court. What they have send is a standard threatomatic. Posting a letter to Oz giving you 4 days to pay. How silly is that

 

[Bodgit]

G'day all.

 

Sorry in the process of loading the new windows on my puter. What a pain.

 

For those of you in Aus please PM me and I'll give you further advice.

 

In a nutshell legal advice has been sought, I have done some homework and the company we all hate over here has done some very naughty things with our credit files.

 

Legal aid are not too happy and are going to take these B@#$%$$ for what they are worth.

 

They have no legal standing over here and by marking our files have just opened up themselves to being fined by the Privacy Commissioner and ASIC.

 

to check your credit files go to www.mycreditfile.com.au.

 

To Lodge a complaint with the privacy commisioner http://www.privacy.gov.au/complaints

To Lodge a complaint with ASIC at http://www.asic.gov.au/asic/asic.nsf/byheadline/Complaining+about+companies+or+people?openDocument

Now the Laws over here are the Consumer Credit Code Uniform Consumer Credit Code (PDF 746KB)

 

Credit reporting code of conduct http://www.privacy.gov.au/materials/types/codesofconduct/view/6787

Understand that any assignment must be made under section 136 of the Laws of property act 1925 in the UK for a UK contract.

 

An assignment of a Australian credit contract is made under section 166 of the CCCA above.

 

Sections 5 and 6 of the CCCA state what a credit contract means and the provisions for that to be covered under the code. Here I quote:

 

5 Meaning of credit contract

For the purposes of this Code, a credit contract is a contract

under which credit is or may be provided, being the provision

of credit to which this Code applies.

6 Provision of credit to which this Code applies

(1) This Code applies to the provision of credit (and to the credit

contract and related matters) if when the credit contract is

entered into or (in the case of precontractual obligations) is

proposed to be entered into—

(a) the debtor is a natural person ordinarily resident in this

jurisdiction or a strata corporation formed in this

jurisdiction; and

(b) the credit is provided or intended to be provided wholly

or predominantly for personal, domestic or household

purposes; and

© a charge is or may be made for providing the credit; and

(d) the credit provider provides the credit in the course of a

business of providing credit or as part of or incidentally

to any other business of the credit provider.

(2) If not all the debtors under a credit contract ordinarily reside,

or are strata corporations formed, in this jurisdiction, this

Code applies only if credit is first provided under the contract

in this jurisdiction.

(3) If this Code applies to the provision of credit (and to the credit

contract and related matters)—

(a) this Code applies in relation to all transactions or acts

under the contract whether or not they take place in this

jurisdiction; and

(b) this Code continues to apply even though the debtor

ceases to be ordinarily resident in this jurisdiction.

(4) For the purposes of this section, investment by the debtor is

not a personal, domestic or household purpose.

(5) For the purposes of this section, the predominant purpose for

which credit is provided is—

(a) the purpose for which more than half of the credit is

intended to be used; or

(b) if the credit is intended to be used to obtain goods or

services for use for different purposes, the purpose for

which the goods or services are intended to be most

used.

 

As you can see there is no legal way a UK contract can be altered into an Australian one and therefore come under this code.

 

Pioneer are trying it on and the amount of people involved now has risen dramatically. They are screaming like stuck pigs as the fines per person for falsely marking our files are over the $100K mark.

 

Bodgit

[babybear39]

Interesting...

[cashins]

Getting stuck in then Bodgit!!

 

David

[ODC]

Just a pity the Regulatory Authorities over here were not so firm with the DCA **** peddling nonsense on our Credit Files

[OutragedMasses]

Guys, thanks for all the posts, this site is a real relief. I just started a thread on an almost identical situation in the US. The gist I get is that Barclayshark certainly seem to have violated the data protection laws of the UK, at the very least. I am in the US, but would be interested in the equivalent of a class action suit. Please let me know

[Bodgit]

G’day all.

 

Have had quite a few PM’s on this company and thought i’d try and write a longer spiel about Plonkers Credit Aquistion Services.

 

Basically Plonkers Credit have bought a shed load of uneforcable debts from the UK. Although I haven’t managed to get verification it would seem that Barclays et al have sold these onto Key2recoveries in the UK who are the UK subsidary of TCM international. Plonkers Credit are also the Australian subsidary to TCM international.

 

From my discussions with the Aussie solicitors there is No legal way an alleged UK debt can be registered onto your aussie credit file. Various legal reasons as discussed in previous posts. But it boils down to there is no legal ability for the UK contract to be converted into an Aussie one that then can be assigned under section 166 of the Uniformed Consumer Credit Code. S5 & 6 are the key requirments for a contract to be valid under the code and a UK contract does not meet those requirements.

 

Plonkers could try and sue us in the UK only, but as they have no licence to operate in the UK and we are no longer residents there is sweet FA they can do. There is no legal recoursefor Plonkers to take through the Australian legal system..

 

Plonkers have placed a black mark on our files and are covering that with the statement that they have been assigned the debt under s166. NO way is that legal. Also Plonkers have placed it on for 5 years from the date of listing. For a contract to have been assigned it must have been defaulted by the original creditor otherwise it cannot be sold. So again Plonkers are breaching the law by listing for that period of time. The selling of an alleged debt does not restart the clock again....

 

VEDA are the CRA over here and there investigation has taken them 45 days so far. There normal time is 30 days and due to the nature and the amount of people this now affects they are ensuring they have their i’s dotted and t’s crossed. I believe they are gathering enough infomation to take to the privacy commissioners office for action to be taken as Plonkers have created a problem for VEDA in so far as their liabilty to ensure all the information held on our files is legitimate.

 

Also the small case of an email that basically said ‘pay up and we’ll remove the listing as placed in error’ has found its way to VEDA. Illegal and blackmail where the words I uttered to the investigator who did not contradict my statement. Oops Plonkers you did it again......and in writing.

 

If you do hear from Plonkers or ‘Balls’ Legal (Play on words) please get hold of your VEDA file, pay the $40 for the year and then if you have a black mark, write a letter explaining the situation to VEDA and ask for an investigation.

 

Do not telephone or email Plomkers. Everything must be in writing. Use the Registered Post service here and do not pay them anything......

 

As previously posted contact the privacy commissioner and ASIC. Then write a letter of formal complaint to Plonkers telling them to remove your listing for the reasons listed above. Basically no legal ability for them to transfer a UK contract into an Aussie one.

 

After 30 days or on reciept of their response ( basically telling you nothing you don’t already know) you can then carry on your complaint to the PC and ASIC. By law you have to give Plonkers Credit services 30 days to respond to a formal complaint before they will take action.

 

I will let you all know the moment I have news from VEDA. If one mark is removed then all of Plonkers marks are going to be removed at the same time as VEDA have informed me.

 

I appologise if I haven’t responded to all your PM’s a fair few to go through so thought I’d try and write this little spiel.

 

If you have further questions please ask on here. There are a few of us that are working as the Plonkers Freedom Fighters and I’m sure one of the other PFF members may be able to assist.

 

I hope I have explained a bit clearer without repeating the previous posts.

Bodgit

Edited October 24, 2009 by Bodgit

[expatdebtor]

Hi Bodgit.... think I am dealing with the same lovely DCA here in Australia that you are... am standing ground but feeling nervous at same time!