Sainsburys Bank

[Notty]

I rang the above to agree to a 1% payment of the balance of my credit card as one of my other cards had agreed to this for a year. They will withold the interest for this time. They agreed on the telephone and never mentioned sending in a Income and Exenditure form. I sent one originally with my first letter but didnt go into detail about mortgage payements etc. Although they accepted the 1% on the phone a dca has now written/telephoned me saying they wont instigate the agreement until I have sent a I&E from a recognised debt counsellor. I cannot see the point of this other than they will then know what mortgage payment I am paying and that I have a house. Does anyone else think this is what they are after. Problem is I dont want them to keep adding on interest so a bit concerned as the debt will go over £5000 shortly with all of the interest they are adding.

[Guest Old_andrew2018]

May I suggest you look at this site Debt Questions? Forum

you can post a question to one of their experts.

 

Andy

[Notty]

Thank you Andrew will take a look.

[diamondgirl]

With regards to knowing about your mortgage and house they can find out about your house easily enough through the land registry and can find out the current value of your home from going onto the website.

 

DG

[Pinky69]

Did you get a Notice of Assignment from the bank telling you that the debt has been assigned to the DCA? If not you have no proof that the DCA has any right to collect money on this account. Insist you get one before you pay them a penny.

 

A DCA has no right whatsoever to ask you for an I&E form - your income and expenditure is none of their business. The problem with making agreements over the phone is that a bank can say anything then forget it when it suits them, as yours has done in this case. Any agreement about paying a percentage must be in writing. I would send a CCA request to the DCA asking for a copy of the agreement before I proposed to make any payment to them. If the agreement is unenforceable then you can put it in dispute and they cannot charge interest whilst the account is in dispute. Then you can decide whether to pay them 1% or not pay them anything at all if there is no enforceable agreement. You can be sure they will then quickly return it to the bank.

[lilly white]

well

 

i would not deal with the Dca deal only with bank

 

Also golden do not speak to the dca again ever again.

 

 

Just somthing i found i really should get out more

 

Assigning A Debt Or Benefit Of Contract?

 

6 December 2005

 

 

 

Assigning A Debt Or Benefit Of Contract?

 

It is important to first provide the debtor with a notice of the assignment!

 

Other points and issues that should be borne in mind:

 

· In principle, the benefit of a contract can be legally assigned without consent,

provided there is no express prohibition on assignment or, for example, a requirement that consent

is obtained.

 

· Where there is no restriction on assignment, the usual way of assigning the benefit of

contractual rights is by statutory assignment. The assignment must be in writing, signed by the

assignor, absolute (not purporting to be by way of charge only) and notice in writing must be

given to the other contracting party (section 136, Law of Property Act 1925).

 

· If a contract is not effectively assigned under statute, it may still be assigned under

common law by an equitable assignment. An equitable assignment may exist where the requirements

for a statutory assignment are not satisfied. The main practical consequence of an equitable

assignment is that the assignee cannot bring an action in its own name against the third party,

but must fall back on the rules governing equitable assignments and join the assignor as a party

to the action.

 

It is, in any event, desirable for notice of an assignment to be given to the third party because

the third party will otherwise be entitled to continue to make payments to the assignor. Notice

will give the assignee priority over any other assignee that has failed to give notice, provided

there is no knowledge of such prior assignment.

 

· The burden of a contract cannot be assigned. It is therefore necessary to novate, rather

than assign, certain contracts. Novation is, in effect, the rescission of one contract and the

substitution of a new contract in which the same acts are to be performed but by different parties.

 

· On the sale of a business, the asset purchase agreement may specifically assign the

benefit of the seller's contracts to the purchaser. Assuming that there is no restriction on

assignment, this amounts to a statutory assignment, provided that notice is also given to the

other contracting party. If assignment is not possible, or only possible with consent, the asset

purchase agreement may provide that such contracts are held on trust pending the obtaining of

formal consent to assign or novate.

 

Trade debts often remain with the seller on the sale of a business because giving written notice

of the assignment of the debt to each debtor can, depending on the number of debtors, be time

consuming and expensive. Where the trade debts remain with the seller, the seller may continue to

collect the debts, or else the buyer may collect the debts as agent for the seller.

 

As the burden of a contract may not be assigned, liability for breach of contract stays with the

seller, who will therefore seek an indemnity from the buyer in relation to any breach occurring

after completion.

 

SO

 

i would follow advice bt pinky lets see what this brings

[Notty]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I dont think the cca would be of any use in this case as I applied on line after 2007 so it would be digital signature? I didnt get a notice of assignment though so I will follow that one up. I suppose they will just send me one and then I will have a fight to get them to agree to the 1% for the year plus no interest. If they take it to court they wouldnt get anymore so I cannot see why they are insisting on the I&E.

[Notty]

I have now received a letter from their solicitors Blair, Oliver, Scott. Should I just write to them and continue to pay the 1% as agreed over the phone? Will they continue to add interest?

[Notty]

bump

[supasnooper]

Write to the solicitors clearly setting out the verbal agreement you have with Sainsbury's.

 

I would also write to Sainsburys to ask them to set out the verbal agreement on paper - it is amazing how many agreements made on the phone are forgotten

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Notty,

Have you received a formal default notice for this account from Sainsburies?

If so, could you scan and post it after blanking personal details.

Elsa x

[Notty]

Hi Elsa No default notcie. First of all dca letter then Sainsburys solicitors letter.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Have they at any time demanded the full balance, Notty?

[Notty]

The DCA requested the full balance and now Blair, Oliver and Scott have requested the full amount.

[Undercover-Elsa]

They cannot legally do that without issuing a valid default notice giving you 14 clear days to remedy the default. If they didn't send you one, they are in breach of contract. Worth chasing this up as it could mean you are only liable for the arrears up to the breach. Have they sent you a notice terminating the agreement?

Take a look at Pinky69's Default Notice thread.

Elsa x

[Notty]

Hi Elsa

No default notice and no termination notice.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Notty,

As far as I am aware Blair Oliver and Scott are just debt collectors, not solicitors. If it was me, I'd CCA them anyway, and send a Subject Access Request to Sainsburies.

You seem to be in some sort of twilight zone where they're still charging interest because they're treating your lower payments as short term. Once they class your problem as "long term" they're more liable to freeze interest and accept lower payments.

Nothing focuses their mind better than withholding payment and putting the account in dispute . Even post April 2007 online agreements will have a CCA which they must supply you with plus terms and conditions and a statement of account. OK we know that dodgy post April 2007 agreements CAN be enforced or varied by a judge, but you still get the protection of the CCA in being legally able to withhold payment and put the account in dispute if they don't produce it within 14 days. This will buy you time to sort out the SAR request and see what they're playing at.

This is just my opinion, it's totally up to you but I'd advise you to search on invalid default notices for more info.

Best wishes,

Elsa x

[Notty]

Thanks Elsa. Great idea. Will do that. I am not sure what their game is but I will ask for the cca and sar. I have been reading a lot about DN & TN. I have had one from another company and they have taken me to court. Again even though I had offered them a lower repayment. This was for a loan and is over £5000. The DN they have sent if it was sent 2nd class would not have allowed me enought time to rectify. I have put them to strict proof in the defence I have sent and they eventually sent the "copy" of the DN from my cpr 18 request. They had altered the "copy" DN though so I am waiting to see what will happen there. As a lot of people say on the Dodgy DN thread it all seems to depend on the judge. I have also recently read that they seem not to take too much notice of DN notices being faulty and it is not a strong enough cause, so I am a bit disheartened by it all. I think because they have said it was first class posted that will probably be sufficent to a judge. Anyway thanks again for the info Elsa I will try and get the cca sent to me.

[Undercover-Elsa]

No probs Notty, the only other thing I can thing of is the unfair charges route, to reduce the balance owed, so the SAR will throw light on that too.

All the best with it Notty

Elsa x

[Notty]

I was just looking at the latest statement form Sainsburys and they have added Late payment fee £12, Overlimit fee £12, Returned payment fee £12. I know they are allowed to charge £12 but not sure what for and if they are allowed to charge it x 3?

[Notty]

Does anyone know about the above fees? Also what address for SAR. Is it the one on the Halifax thread?

[Notty]

Can anyone advice please on the above charges and address?

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi Notty,

Unfortunately they are allowed to make the seperate charges as far as I know, as each is for a different "offence". Whether £12 is a fair charge is very much the subject of debate, awaiting a test case next month. The OFT, while giving £12 as a rough guideline for charges, back in the days when they were slapping £35 fees on for the same thing, doesn't necessarily state that the charge is fair...in that the charge should only relate to the actual amount it costs a bank to deal with the transgression. Anything over that which constitutes "profit" for the bank is considered an unfair penalty charge.

As I understand Sainsburies administer your account I imagine the SAR should go to them as the original company. The address will be on your statements but I'd head it "The Data Controller".

Elsa x

[Notty]

Thanks Elsa.

[Undercover-Elsa]

No probs..and thanks for the scales tip