Saint2K vs HSBC

[Saint2K]

I'll draft up a letter, and post it up before sending.

[silverfox1961]

 

They already have, it's been in house, and is now with Cabot.

 

If they cannot provide a valid CCA, I'll just cease repayments.

 

 

Oh goodie, anything that hurts Cabot can only be a good thing:)

 

They have had a CCA request from me for 14 months now and nothing has appeared but they won't sod off but then again, they ain't had a penny off me for as long

Should they come back with an agreement then I don't mind paying but at a rate I can afford.

[Saint2K]

So, if the creditor refuses to write the debt off, what other options are available, or what other options work?

 

F&FS?

Simply stop paying and wait 5/6 years for statute barred?

 

Just curious, as I think most my agreements will technically be enforceable.

[silverfox1961]

because you have been sent an "agreement" Cabot will say that the debt is valid and will continue to chase. They really are like dogs with bones.

 

You could offer a F&F or wait the 6 years, your choice really although if they took you to court with what you have I doubt they would win. They won't write it off although they may send you a letter saying they will treat this debt as irrecoverable but it's a case of wait and see

[Saint2K]

Thanks Silver, I posted this question on the CCA thread too, and have got a similar reply.

 

I guess it depends on the creditor, but receiving a letter confirming its irrecoverable is probably a golden moment for most people lol.

[Saint2K]

Update: Letter sent as above to HSBC. Watch this space....!

[Saint2K]

Update: Letter sent to HSBC, so watch this space!

[johnnymitch]

We're watching saint ... let's know how it goes ...

[InformedSearcher]

Just a quick note - Be aware that the ICO takes time. If anyone does complain to them don't expect anything back fast and I guess that this applies to many government quango's (paid for or not by banks).

 

Michael

[Saint2K]

Update: Received this interesting reply today...

 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/337010/HSBC%20-%20SAR%20Reply.jpg

 

Obviously as above, I have never received anything, apart from letters asking for my signature!!

 

What do you think be in my reply?

Edited December 15, 2009 by sgx.saint

[InformedSearcher]

I think they are trying to drag it on aka probably wanting you to go away. Bank Tactics: When in doubt show them who is in charge and delay them indefinately.

The letter seems to be saying that your original request did not specify exactly what you wanted. If you check your original request I'd suggest you just re-send it advising them in no uncertain terms that their 40 days is/has run out.

 

Michael

[Saint2K]

UPDATE: I've sent the following letter....

 

/-----------------/

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am writing with regards to your letter dated the 10th December 2009, the contents of which have been noted.

 

In your letter, you advise that it is your belief that you have supplied me with a copy of all my personal data held by HSBC, and furthermore believe that you have discharged your obligations under the Data Protection Act.

 

Please be advised that this is most certainly not the case, as I have yet to receive a single piece of documentation from HSBC provided under the Data Protection Act. I stress that no documentation has ever been received by myself at my registered address.

 

My original request was made on the 14/06/2009, and the only communication from HSBC since that request has been three letters regarding ascertaining my identity, and therefore entitlement to the personal data that I requested.

 

Furthermore, I note that the statutory payment of £10, which was supplied with my original request, has been cashed, and yet I am still awaiting the receipt my personal data.

 

I will now reiterate exactly what I require, and failure to provide me with this information within the next 14 days will result in me seeking a Court order obliging you to do so together with damages at the discretion of the Court and without any further notice.

 

Please supply me with copies of all the data which you hold on me in relation to any matter and in any form and for any period of time.

Please note that I require disclosure of any personal data which you hold on me for the entire period of my dealings with you.

The Subject Access is not limited to my transaction history and it is not limited merely to 6 years of historical information. Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

A full and documented complaint has been submitted to the ICO (Information Commissioners Office) regarding this matter.

 

I look forward to receiving your considered reply.

 

/---------------/

 

Awaiting a reply!

Edited January 6, 2010 by Saint2K

[johnnymitch]

Leaves them in no doubt , saint !

 

Be interesting to see what they come up with this time ..... I can't see that you've left them an 'out '

[Saint2K]

Will let you know!

[Saint2K]

UPDATE:

 

HSBC have just sent me this letter.

 

In summary, they dispatched my information to an address that I haven't lived at for over four years. I'm fuming! :/

 

HSBC have had my correct and up to date address, and I have always notified them of a change, and their in-house debt collection agency have had no problem writing to me at this address. It was even at the top of all my recent letters, including the SAR!

 

Why then I wonder, has their DPA department, got address details on file which are over four years old and inaccurate. Also, why dispatch information to an address different to the one on the SAR. HSBC spent weeks arguing with me over providing a signature, yet they go and breach the DPA by sending out all my personal data to an address four years out of date. *SIGH*

 

Hmmm, how to respond?!

Edited January 6, 2010 by Saint2K

[Saint2K]

UPDATE II:

 

DHL have delivered my personal data from HSBC.

 

Having a quick skim through it now, and I'm not entirely sure it's complete.

 

For starters, should my CCA agreement be contained within the SAR?

 

Also, I can't seem to locate any statements, and therefore not see what charges have been applied to the account.

 

On that note, has there been any more developments on pursuing bank charges?

Edited January 6, 2010 by Saint2K

[Saint2K]

Bumpy.

[johnnymitch]

Sorry saint, I thought I'd answered this last night .... it obviously didn't post for some reason .....

 

However , you have had nowhere near what you should have had for your SAR .. :

 

What to ask for in a SAR (courtesy of Freakyleaky

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/576-subject-access-request-debt-a-dca.html

 

S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) information, they have a legal obligation to provide ALL of the records they hold on you when you request it. This includes ALL of your accounts ALL of their internal notes and ALL of their correspondence ANYTHING with your name on it, and all for £10

 

They should send you anything with your name on it for any account of yours they have for a single Subject Access Request. This has nothing to do with how many accounts you hold with them its a request for all and any data they hold concerning you, this includes :

 

copies of correspondence

 

copies of internal notes,

 

copies of any telephone recordings or a transcript of the recording

 

copies of statements of account

 

and last but not least a copy of the terms and conditions agreed to by you governing the account.

 

Literally anything with your name on it or about you... and all for £10.00

 

They obviously have not complied with the Data Protection Act in your case (and many others , they seem to be messing everybody about these days ... with no-one to rein them in . ) ,....so let's tell them so ....

 

http://www.consumerforums.com/resources/templates-library/48-bank-templates/129-data-protection-act-non-compliance-template-letters-

 

Choose the letter which most suits your case and let 'em have it .... 'Recorded Delivery' of course .... to :

 

Data Protection Act

 

HSBC Bank Plc

Service Quality Team

Arlington Business Centre

Millshaw Park Lane

Leeds

LS11 0PP

 

Tel 08456 028006

 

Fax 08001696143

 

If they mess you about any more you can either (1) report them to the Information Commissioner (which apparently is a lengthy progress these days ) or (2) Take them to the county court for non-compliance ....and force them to produce ,.... (they'll usually cough up everything they've got on you before it gets to that stage ..... )

 

Come back if you need more info saint .. Oh and Happy New Year !!

[Saint2K]

Hi Johnny,

 

Thank you for the reply.

 

I've had a look through the information provided, and I've only just realised that HSBC sold the debt on to a company called Phoenix (Tessera).

 

Not sure if I was ever notified of this formally, I would have to check, but I would expect the only notification I would have received will have been a second class post letter from the new 'alleged' owner of the debt.

 

There is only partial statements included, but this might be explained by the above.

 

There is no CCA agreement included, and there seems to be other things missing too. It's difficult to say because you can't say what's missing if you don't know what's missing, if that makes sense?

 

So, I'm a little unsure how to amend the template letter you suggested. Could I add in a section about requiring all information as allowed under Section 7 (1) of the DPA? ... Which as far as I am aware is a catch all request for information.

 

Johnny, would you mind taking a look at one of my other threads too, not got many responses, and you've helped me a lot so far.

 

It's located here.

[johnnymitch]

Hi saint , sorry I've taken so long to get back to you .....

 

I'd say that your position is stronger now that it's been passed to Phoenix .

 

If Phoenix can't produce a CCA then they can't chase the debt ..... simple as that ..... so send them a CCA request ......asking them ...

Letter 'N' on this link should do the trick.......

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html#post162353

 

by all means press HSBC for your statements etc....but be aware that they may produce the CCA.....

[Saint2K]

I think for the time being, I'm going to let this matter settle, I'm trying to deal with some of my smaller debts at the moment, plus balance this work work and a newborn baby!

 

I hope to return to this battle at some point in the next few weeks.

 

Thanks for all your help folks, and I welcome your help on my other threads