Fox V Citi SAR

[MARTIN3030]

And what do the OFT have to say ?

 

 

 

Enforcement of consumer law

 

Under Part 8 of the Enterprise Act, the OFT and other bodies responsible for consumer law enforcement, have stronger powers to seek court orders against businesses who breach certain consumer protection laws.

Before taking court action (ie seeking an Enforcement Order), the OFT and our enforcement partners will always invite the trader concerned to respond to the allegations against them, and they will be able to give binding commitments (undertakings) instead of going to court.

The enforcement procedure is based on the Stop Now Regulations which it replaces along with Part III of the Fair Trading Act.

Download

Enforcement of consumer protection legislation for more detailed information on the enforcement procedure (pdf file 372 kb).

[MARTIN3030]

No Exclusions No exceptions No special privilege No immunity No way.......

Should Citi be any special case-they are just as responsible for compliance as the next bank.

Its high time they had their A***s kicked.

It takes only one Judgement to be obtained under the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 to take a compliant directly to the FSA.

The day this happens will not be a day too late.

[silverfox1961]

I tell you what Martin, if the FOS go against me (as is likely-toothless wonders:mad:) I will appeal to the ombudsman and see what comes back. I will include the points you have raised and try to find out why Citi did a purge of their systems( what are they hiding:rolleyes:). As they subscribe to the Money Laundering Regs, they should be keeping all records for the 6 years after the account is closed.

 

My account was defaulted in October 2004, a full 8 months after I missed payments.

 

All the adjudicator said he definitely would be able to get is the T's&C's. The rest he wasn't sure of.

 

fox

 

ps. Morning

[silverfox1961]

I had the same spiel from the fOS in regards MBNA and a complaint I raised... what you need to remember is that FOS are not really over concerned about the legalities, they strive to seek a compromise between the two parties and possibly if really pushed uphold a minor complaint against a bank/financial institute.

 

In my case, breaches of the banking code / CCA / Oft debt collection guidelines were brushed aside with a "well thats the way they work" :-/ followed by "its difficult for MBNA as they have two sets of rules to follow"

 

You really couldnt make it up.. such an impotent ombudsman in reality.

 

S.

 

 

The adjudicator also dropped their name into the conversation and told me that it was difficult as they also follow different rules.

[silverfox1961]

Morning all,

 

For anyone looking in for the first time, this thread is linked to this one

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/165226-dare-i-mention-cabot.html

 

I have had a response from the Information Commissioner. A whole four pages of- NOTHING

 

All they are going to do is remind Citi of their obligations to supply the info within the timescales (sixth principle). Oh whoop-de-doo.

 

Under the DPA, Citi don't have to supply original copies, only the info contained within them. If they no longer have the info, they can't supply it. Citi have a two year retentions policy so they have no information on:

 

a) default notice

b) Termination notice

c) NoA (although we know they don't actually send them)

d) No info on manual intervention

 

Terms and conditions do not fall under the DPA so they are not obliged to send them.

 

They don't have to tell me who they have passed my data on to, only the class of recipient (?)

 

 

The thing is, Cabot are saying that Citi have supplied them with all information since 2004 so I think someone is telling porkies.

 

On the other hand, I would like to see Cabot try and take me to court as they won't be able to prove default, termination nor NoA and if they did produce documents to support a case, they would look silly with what I now know.

 

One point the ICO did mention was that missing documents fall under the CCA and to report them to the OFT. Apart from adding to their massive file on Citi, that would achieve bu**er all.

 

Just the FOS to reply now and I know they are having difficulties with getting sensible replies from Citi.

 

Have a good day

 

fox

[the_shadow]

Silver just thinking a little outside of the box, have you SAR'd Cabot for the information that has been passed to them from Citi... just to ensure they have what they say they have ;-)

 

S.

[silverfox1961]

Silver just thinking a little outside of the box, have you SAR'd Cabot for the information that has been passed to them from Citi... just to ensure they have what they say they have ;-)

 

S.

 

 

I most surely did

 

Guess what? No don't bother. Cabot supplied a very comprehensive SAR and there was bu**er all from Citi in it (apart from statements)

 

Makes ya think, don't it.

[the_shadow]

I most surely did

 

Guess what? No don't bother. Cabot supplied a very comprehensive SAR and there was bu**er all from Citi in it (apart from statements)

 

Makes ya think, don't it.

 

haha well done

 

S.

[silverfox1961]

I did think about bringing Cabot to task but as they aren't bothering me, I'm not going to poke them (yet)

[Enron]

Citi aren't releasing copies of the original executed agreements to asignees who purchase accounts from them, I had 1st Credit request a copy of the one I managed to get.

 

There are two routes to go with this, can remember if I contacted you silverfox so will PM.

[silverfox1961]

Afternoon peeps,

Got a letter today from Citi. It beggars belief what they will do to get out of their obligations.

I did CCA Cabot (who have this debt) back in October 08 and nothing forthcoming.

 

I have had 3 letters from the FOS about my complaint with Citi which basically says investigations are ongoing but for now here is the letter Citi sent.

 

 

They should know I sent a CCA to cabot as Cabot have been asking them for it for over 18 months. They may argue they don't have a responsibility to me to supply the agreement but they do to Cabot and Cabot have the responsibility to me. I can see this going round in ever decreasing circles and disappearing up Citi's backside.

[Enron]

More slippery than a bucket of eels.

 

It would seem that Citi are no longer co-operating with companies that have purchased accounts from them either, aside from posting copies of T&C from around the time applications were made, which in accordance with the Manchester Test case would appear to complete s78(1) CCA.

 

Citi have now sold on the accounts of it's credit card business to a third party, and appear to be entirely pulling out of the sector. Someone else is left holding the poison chalice, as it is my belief that they don't possess, or only have partial copies of executed agreements.

 

That said, the whole system is rotten, people at Citi were instrumental in getting regulation removed in the US in order to create massive profits -- something that would see the eventual collapse of the banking system, only to be revived by bail outs that corrupt politicians awarded to prop up the existing system:

 

[silverfox1961]

Just listening to the link you posted enron.

 

The beauty of that letter above is that I have never CCA'd Citi, only Cabot so by sending that letter, they are trying to confuse the issue. I may just forward a copy on to the FOS and see what they have to say about it

[Enron]

Just listening to the link you posted enron.

 

The beauty of that letter above is that I have never CCA'd Citi, only Cabot so by sending that letter, they are trying to confuse the issue. I may just forward a copy on to the FOS and see what they have to say about it

 

Yep, the links a bit of a shocker, it doesn't specifically reference Citi but I know one of their head guys in the past really pushed for deregulation of the US financial markets....

 

Your best bet is to continue plugging away with the FOS, though that'll likely take 6 months + from start to finish.

[silverfox1961]

Openness and honesty. Two words missing from a bankers vocabulary-worldwide I'll bet.

It beggars belief that the US government are in on this. They treat the public like mushrooms

[Enron]

Openness and honesty. Two words missing from a bankers vocabulary-worldwide I'll bet.

 

It beggars belief that the US government are in on this. They treat the public like mushrooms

 

It's wider than that though, we as the UK are in on this game as well.

 

Part of the problems with Northern Rock were that they were selling subprime mortgages, then passing them on to other parties. The bank would have been OK, accept for the fact that it was buying in other institutions derivatives -- which likewise were being dishonestly labeled.

 

I remember watching a programme (I think it was dispatches) who had a lengthy interview with the financial director of the firm, he cautious attitude was always over-ruled by the chief executive. It appears that the motive was to create as much profit regardless of the implications, which is something that has tainted this whole financial crisis.

 

That said from the point of the CEO if they are not returning substantial profits, there is the risk they could be fired, it was essentially a house of cards waiting to fold.

[silverfox1961]

Well, I've had a response from the FOS and it is to their usual standard

 

Basically, the FOS have glossed over the issue of supplying account history notes saying that Citi regularly purge their systems

Now, are they not supposed to keep account histories for 6 years following account closure/termination?

 

I did manage to get copies of the terms and conditions for 03/04 which the FOS say is my agreement. Don't think so. I have never seen these before.

 

In one of my phone calls to the FOS, I just happened to mention CAG:) and in the reply today, the FOS stated," I am aware you made great play of this on a consumer website. However, even though Citi is owned by an American company it still must adhere to all UK regulations."

 

If that is the case, why are Citi allowed to wait until 7 payments have been missed before defaulting when others shouldn't.

 

Now the bit that amused me. The FOS can't tell the difference between termination and assignment. This is the paragraph, " As Cititbank have previously informed you (er-no they haven't) any termination notice would have been issued by Cabot. I have not seen in the terms and conditions that a termination notice should have been sent."

What they are referring to is assignment as in Citi's T's&C's is a paragraph about termination.

 

I really don't know whether to persue this at the moment as I am moving house next week.

[Enron]

Citi run fast and lose with the regulations, I received a default notice from them -- but like yourself no termination notice.

 

It does mean that agreements can be ran open ended, and transferred from what I have read to another creditor that might buy the account i.e. the next creditor can continue to add interest etc, though if I am wrong I would like clarification on this point.

 

A termination notice effectively finishes the agreement/contract leaving the total remaining which cannot be added to.

 

But have to agree with you, the FOS are about as useful as a chocolate teapot. It seems strange that they have this stance, however in others such as Bosund's they managed to get the creditor to produce a copy of the original signed "executed agreement".

 

I would possibly wait to see what the creditors next step is.