Tactics for dealing with Next Directory/out of date in light of recent judgements

[undercovermoles]

Only for Post April '07 agreements.

 

Anything prior and you're good to go.

 

Has anyone got some tactics to deal with a post April 2007 agreement? Next/Graham White are telling me they don't need an agreement due to repeal of s127(3). They have defaulted me and are claiming balance - their argument seems to be: 'of course it was a credit agreement - you took delivery of the goods, and didn't pay at the time so now pay up!'

 

Has anyone ever had to sign a credit agreement with Next? When they sent me the precedent agreement with a comp slip, it was a document I had never ever seen before.

 

[pt2537]

Has anyone got some tactics to deal with a post April 2007 agreement? Next/Graham White are telling me they don't need an agreement due to repeal of s127(3). They have defaulted me and are claiming balance - their argument seems to be: 'of course it was a credit agreement - you took delivery of the goods, and didn't pay at the time so now pay up!'

 

Has anyone ever had to sign a credit agreement with Next? When they sent me the precedent agreement with a comp slip, it was a document I had never ever seen before.

 

ok, did you order the goods? if they were unsolicited then they are a gift.

 

also dont forget that s127(1)&(2) still apply and the fact that they have ignored the requirements of the 1974 Act means you have been caused prejudice so you still have grounds to defend

[undercovermoles]

ok, did you order the goods? if they were unsolicited then they are a gift.

 

also dont forget that s127(1)&(2) still apply and the fact that they have ignored the requirements of the 1974 Act means you have been caused prejudice so you still have grounds to defend

 

Hi PT

 

Yes I ordered the goods in late 2007/2008 and intended to pay later - i.e. I knew that they were being purchased 'on credit'. But had no idea that I was entering into a credit agreement that could result in a default - indeed I signed nothing whatsoever.

 

They started charging for late payments and then sent me a default notice and are now threatening to sue. On request for any agreement between us, Next sent me a photocopy of their standard precedent credit agreement with a compliments slip saying 'here is your agreement' but I never ever saw this before and certainly never signed anything.

 

Has anyone been successful in such a post-April 07 case? I will have a look at s127(1) and (2) too.. thanks PT.

 

UM:-)

[militantconsumer]

Excellent as always PT.

 

I have a friend who had a Next Directory account that was defaulted back in 2005. She moved onto a Debt Management Plan for a bit, but after I joined CAG we realised it was unenforceable so we stopped paying.

 

It had been passed to Moorcroft, so we wrote and told them why we weren't going to pay any more. Moorcroft wrote back to say they were passing it back to Next. This surprised us a bit because we thought it had actually been assigned (this it what was implied in statements that came as part of the Next SAR response).

 

I thank you for this thread, as it does clarify the position, and will help us defend if we ever get sued.

 

I have a couple of related questions for you, which I suspect will apply to everybody in a similar question (hence posted on this thread):-

 

1. Can we get the credit file cleaned up? This shows as a default for 6 years, as a debt still owing for evermore. No agreement = no permission to pass data onto 3rd parties, surely? But I have heard that the ICO don't share this view.

 

2. Can we claim back the "service charge", which is Next's term for interest. No CCA 1974 agreement surely means no right to levy interest charges? I understand there may even be mileage in the 'payments made under mistake' line, i.e. claim back ALL payments ever made on the account?

 

3. Could we at least use threat of point 2 to make them do point 1 - a kind of full and final settlement agreement?

 

One other thing - I think Next have given up on these accounts because my friend recently ordered some Next goods online and was given a new credit account with a credit limit of a few hundred quid without even asking! I don't think they've learnt their lesson about irresponsible lending.

[pt2537]

the problem with Next is, they are clueless when it comes to court, they will tell you to sue them even though they do not have a credit agreement and on the same point they will sue you , they are totally clueless when it comes to it

 

so the ony way in my view, you will kill them off, is in court

[gforce2k]

Hi,

Excellent thread, just what i need right now!

 

Next Retail issued a claim on 18th May 09, I put in AoS but not sure if deadline for defence is TODAY (Date of Service is Issue+2days?).

To get it in on-time I need to file the defence online moneyclaim.gov.uk which gives 8000 chars and 122 lines.

I've read your thread and your defence seems like it could be a good catchall but I need to be sure.

 

The POCs are:

"The Claimant's claim is for the sum of £835.06 being the balance outstanding on the Defendant's account in respect of the price of goods supplied and delivered by the Claimant to the order of the defendant through its mail order catalogue service together with any charges applied to the account in accordance with the terms and conditions of use.

 

Full details of the cost of all purchases made and details of agreed payment arrangements have been given to the Defendant. The Defendant has defaulted in payment.

 

The Claimant claims £835.06"

 

My wife opened the account in 2003 but doesn't recall signing anything.

I CCA'd them but only got an unsigned agreement so I wrote back saying the account was in serious dispute as no True copy was supplied.

They then sent a lengthy letter in which they state "I can confirm that we are unable to locate an Executed Copy of your credit agreement at this time, however we do not agree that this gives you grounds to dispute your account or that we are in default"...etc.

 

Would you suggest copying the defence you have posted above as is or are there any changes I should make?

 

Really appreciate any help.

Regards,

 

gf2k

[militantconsumer]

You get 28 days plus a few days as the deemed date of service is later than the actual issue date. You can call the court to find out the exact date if you want, just to be sure.

 

Even if you are late, I think I'm right in saying that Next would have to actually apply for judgment - sometimes companies don't do this immediately. However, best to meet the deadline just to be sure.

 

Hopefully PT will come back and advise, but to be honest if there is no signed CCA agreement and the account was opened back in 2003, there really SHOULD be no way that they can win, even if your defence itself is not 100% perfect.

 

They probably just hope you will ignore the claim and they will win by default.

 

It sounds like they haven't complied with the pre-action protocols at all - i.e. they have rushed to legal action and ignored your letter. I think that may entitle you to seek costs against them. Not sure if you are meant to mention that at the end of your defence or not....

[gforce2k]

Thanks MC,

We received a Notice of Pending Legal Action from Howard Cohen on 6th May with a final opportunity to pay etc. so that probably means they comply with pre-action protocols?

 

Hopefully pt will be able to advise me on a defence as you say.

Be great if i could just paste his posted defence as is, it looks great, lots of legal reference but I'm just not sure I should admit the account (point 1 of pt's defence) as they can't provide a signed document.

Is there a legal reason for doing that?

 

cheers

gf2k

[r&b]

Be great if i could just paste his posted defence as is, it looks great, lots of legal reference

 

hi gf2k

im sure u intend to, but id just make sure u understand ALL of it, cos its u in front of the oppo and DJ no one else.

[militantconsumer]

I'm just not sure I should admit the account (point 1 of pt's defence) as they can't provide a signed document.

Is there a legal reason for doing that?

 

Are you really planning to deny ever having had an account?

 

I'm sure that, even if Next don't have the signed agreement, they will be able to offer some kind proof that you held an account with them. Statements, proof of payments made, delivery notes, etc.

 

It's not going to impress the judge much as to your honesty and reliability if you start off by denying something that is obviously true.

[gforce2k]

Thx for getting back to me so quickly,

 

r&b-absolutely right, I'm re-reading the example defences tonight and cross-referencing the legal references so i completely understand it ALL.

 

mc -perhaps I should have been clearer, was never my plan to deny the account, just didn't want to volunteer admission.

 

I spoke with the court today to check deadline and they told me we have until 4pm 22nd June so I have a couple more days to get my act together thankfully.

 

I took the time today to read the other thread mentioned above and the POC is EXACTLY like ours except for the £.

PT's suggested defence in that thread should be ok for us too I hope with a few changes.

 

Not sure what to do about the section "The Request for Disclosure under the CPR" as I've not CPR'd them, just CCA'd (before the claim).

If I CPR now their deadline to respond will be after my defence deadline so should I delete that section entirely or can I still CPR them now witha 7 day deadline and reword the section slightly?

 

Cheers,

gf2k

[pt2537]

which CPR part are you referring to? ive looked at the draft defence and there is no mention of the CPR save for the request that the court exercise its powers under CPR 3.4(2)(a)

 

so im a little confused by your post

[gforce2k]

which CPR part are you referring to? ive looked at the draft defence and there is no mention of the CPR save for the request that the court exercise its powers under CPR 3.4(2)(a)

 

so im a little confused by your post

 

Apologies pt/everyone,

got confused myself with all the threads I read today .

(Also sorry for the initial panic posting, I should have posted sooner.)

 

I took the time today to read the other thread mentioned above and the POC is EXACTLY like ours except for the £.

PT's suggested defence in that thread should be ok for us too I hope with a few changes.

 

Not sure what to do about the section "The Request for Disclosure under the CPR" as I've not CPR'd them, just CCA'd (before the claim).

If I CPR now their deadline to respond will be after my defence deadline so should I delete that section entirely or can I still CPR them now witha 7 day deadline and reword the section slightly?

 

the thread I mentioned in my post#36 above should have been:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/125434-lewis-debt-recovery-next-2.html

CPR letter Anthuk was advised to send to Next was in post#3.

PT you referred to it in your defence in post#28 section titled:

The Request for Disclosure under the CPR

 

Hope my original post make sense now.

 

Is a CPR letter still worth sending? If so would the one in Anthuk's thread be ok or the CPR16 or 18 letters I've seen elsewhere?

 

If it's a stupid question please forgive my ineptitude.

cheers,

gf2k

[mort22shop]

Very interesting i put my egg card in to a firm called credit issues to see if they could get the balance written off or reduced due to errors etc however after six months they have written to me saying that the Egg agreement which i took out in 2004 can not be challenged although i have my doubts as i think they may be only looking at cases where there is no true copy. i am now looking to take egg on myself so if any one has any points that would be helpful please post. thanks

[pt2537]

Apologies pt/everyone,

got confused myself with all the threads I read today .

(Also sorry for the initial panic posting, I should have posted sooner.)

 

 

 

the thread I mentioned in my post#36 above should have been:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/125434-lewis-debt-recovery-next-2.html

CPR letter Anthuk was advised to send to Next was in post#3.

PT you referred to it in your defence in post#28 section titled:

The Request for Disclosure under the CPR

 

Hope my original post make sense now.

 

Is a CPR letter still worth sending? If so would the one in Anthuk's thread be ok or the CPR16 or 18 letters I've seen elsewhere?

 

If it's a stupid question please forgive my ineptitude.

cheers,

gf2k

GF2K

 

the defence that Anthuk used was a rather old one , if you have read this thread, in the first five or six posts you will see the best route in my opinion for dealing with Next.

 

you do not need anything verbose in these cases as the Claimant is simply trying to circumvent the CCA 1974 by claiming for goods.

 

I deal with Next Directory a lot at work and while i am not giving legal advice here nor should my advice be seen as such, if it were my claim, this thread is exactly how i would handle it

[UK26]

Hi,

 

My brother has been hit by this

 

Littlewoods Account (Online)

 

Applied for the account, received credit agreement to be signed and returned, however he never did sign or return it to littwoods.

 

he now owes them £350 and they are adding charges to the account, they have given him a default notice and put the account out to a DCA

 

NATIONWIDE DEBT RECOVERY LIMITED

 

He lost is job a few months ago and is unable to pay at the moment.

 

I know the account is not enforceable due to no credit agreement

 

Account was opened in 2008

 

Questions

1. when there is no credit agreement

can they pass his details to a DCA, CRA ?? i think NOT as concent was not given?

 

is there a breach of the DPA by littlewoods?

[pt2537]

Hi,

 

My brother has been hit by this

 

Littlewoods Account (Online)

 

Applied for the account, received credit agreement to be signed and returned, however he never did sign or return it to littwoods.

 

he now owes them £350 and they are adding charges to the account, they have given him a default notice and put the account out to a DCA

 

NATIONWIDE DEBT RECOVERY LIMITED

 

He lost is job a few months ago and is unable to pay at the moment.

 

I know the account is not enforceable due to no credit agreement

 

Account was opened in 2008 Then it is enforceable by order of the court

Questions

1. when there is no credit agreement

can they pass his details to a DCA, CRA ?? i think NOT as concent was not given?

 

is there a breach of the DPA by littlewoods?

i think that would be difficult to overcome

[UK26]

what do you mean Paul?

 

Can they still enforce payment then?

[pt2537]

yes they can, well with an order of the court

 

the agreement, if improperly executed is unenforceable until the court orders it to be enforceable and the court would most likely in my experience make such an order

[UK26]

but what happens, when there is no credit agreement as in this case

 

my brother received it, however did not sign it, he simply put it in the bin. Should have keep it really, woud have had proof that he never entered into the agreement.

 

he never the less used the account and ordered goods

[pt2537]

 

the agreement, if improperly executed is unenforceable until the court orders it to be enforceable and the court would most likely in my experience make such an order

 

 

that is what happens, they apply to the court for an order, they will get it as long as there is no prejudice to your brother which i cant see there is, he merely didnt sign it, there is nowt to say he didnt recieve it

 

 

so the court could and would enforce the agreement

[UK26]

Dam, Thanks for the imput Paul

 

The new CCA 2006 is the killer i guess

[Peterbard]

but what happens, when there is no credit agreement as in this case

 

my brother received it, however did not sign it, he simply put it in the bin. Should have keep it really, woud have had proof that he never entered into the agreement.

 

he never the less used the account and ordered goods

 

Hi

 

This is covered by the distance marketing regs and no returned aggreement is needed it is just the icing on the cake as far as littlewoods are concerned.

The agreement was made when the goods where recieved your cancellation period was 14 days after the recipt of your terms and conditions which was also the agreement which went in the bin.

 

Just a thought but since your brother obviously was fully aware of the implications of purchasing the item and was not missled in the terms of the bargain, why is he challenging the agreement?

 

Dont you think he should just pay it, or if he cannot afford to do so try to reach some accomadation with his creditors.

 

Peter

[suzby83]

Hi, Just thought i'd mention that i am currently having a dispute with NEXT on a closed account from 2006. I found out that they gave me a default after reviewing my credit file recently. My account did get passed to a DCA due to ill health and i could not afford to pay the monthly payments and i offered to pay a token payment of £10 until my circumstances changed. Next, However, would not accept this and transferred my debt to DCA. The account was then paid off within a few months.

 

In May this year i issued them with a CCA, as i wanted a copy of my signed agreement and default notice. as i beleive that i never received them.

 

They have sent me a copy of a default notice but its nothing more than an arrears letter. However, as the account is from 2006 they have sent me a default/arrears letter dated 28th June 2009:eek:. I have asked the FOS and OFT to look at the matter.

[rome00]

Hi , i have just looked at my credit file Next Directory hace entered a default against me i have copy of the letter they sent saying they cannot find a copy of an agreement but are they still allowed to enter this with CRA ? if not please tell me what i need to do to get it taken off my file .