MBNA / Restons

[Cartier-Bresson]

Hi Folks - I'm getting a little twitchy as the days are rolling on and I haven't prepared my defence yet. Based on the Date of Service on the 'N1 Claim Form' from Northhampton Courts, which was Monday 11th May .... my 33 days are up by next Friday ! [12th June].

 

Citizen B has been helping me with my DN, which now it would appear is invalid due to remedy timings and arrears references on the T&C's etc

 

The CCA looks to be unenforceable as the front refers to points that don't make sense on the back.

 

I think i should SAR MBNA again today and ask for the comms log as per Supa's advice.

 

What is my next move or am I just stressing unnecessarily..... i don't really know what i should be writing or even where I should be writing it to !!!!

 

Arggggghhhhh !

[citizenB]

I am here, I am just looking for the information regarding your POC which you say is the same as snoops:D

[Cartier-Bresson]

okidokey - thanks CB !

 

Having thought about this SAR including comms log from MBNA .... i have already recieved statements from them going back to 2004 [The account started in 2001 though ???? but they couldn't provide anything further back] and their verson of the CCA way back in feb some time - just though I might have got more from them if I used CPR 18 on them ???

 

Also - I have CPR 31.14 'd Restons on the 12th May - they have sent back the three sets of docs mentioned on my earlier posts.

 

Maybe I don't need to SAR MBNA again .... just thought it might generate some more info for my defence ??

 

Cheers > Cartier

[citizenB]

CB, I think your maths is wrong..

 

Issue date was 6th May, therefore 33 days ie 5 + 14 + 14 = 8th June. CAN SOMEONE PLEASE CONFIRM

 

You need to get something in by Monday. This means you will have to do it online.

 

Recap

 

You sent your claim for unlawful charges to Restons after they had been rattling their cage. Charges plus interest come to around £1,200.

 

Instead of receiving a response in respect of those they issued a Claim form.

 

The claim is for around £3,000.

 

We have estabished that the back and front of your application form are NOT part of the same document.

 

We have established the DN is faulty in two respects.

 

You have had no response to your CPR.. Not sure about this.

 

You havent sent in a Subject Access Report at this time.

 

I think a holding defence along the lines of :

 

A:

 

 

 

In the xxxxxxxx County Court

 

[Claim number

 

 

 

Between

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxx- Claimant

 

 

and

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxxx- Defendant

 

 

 

 

 

 

DEFENCE

 

1. The particulars of claim discloses no cause of action and are self evidently an abuse of process, in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the CPR (even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system).

 

2. Further to that above the defendant is unable to plead effectively or at all. The defendant is embarrassed.

 

3. The Claimant fails to plead that this claim concerns an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act, 1974. However, the Claimant claims interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act, 1984 which the Claimant should surely know they are not entitled to by virtue of the County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order, 1991 (SI 1991 No. 1184 (L. 12)) in particular section 2(3)(a), which clearly prohibits such an award:

 

· The general rule

 

2(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevant judgment - (a) is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974;

4. I respectfully request the court’s permission to submit an amended defence should the claimant file a fully particularised Particulars of Claim

 

[statement of Truth

 

 

I xxxxxxxxxxx, believe the above statement to be true and factual

 

 

Signed .....................

 

Date

 

Or

 

**************************************************

B:

 

In the xxxxxxxx

County Court

Claim number

 

Between

xxxxxxxxxxx- Claimant

 

and

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxxx- Defendant

 

 

 

Defence

 

1. I xxxxxxxxx of xxxxxxxxxxxxx am the defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by xxxxxxxxxxxx

 

2. The Defendant is embarrassed in pleading to the Particulars of Claim as it stands at present, inter alia: -

 

3. The claimants' particulars of claims disclose no legal cause of action and they are embarrassing to the defendant as the claimant's statement of case is insufficiently particularised and does not comply or even attempt to comply with CPR part 16. In this regard I wish to draw the courts attention to the following matters;

 

a) The Particulars of Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding the alleged cause of action. No particulars are offered in relation to the nature of the written agreement referred to, the method the claimant calculated any outstanding sums due, or any other matters necessary to substantiate the claimant's claim.

 

b) A copy of the purported written agreement that the claimant cites in the Particulars of Claim, and which appears to form the basis upon which these proceedings have been brought, has not been served attached to the claim form.

 

c) A copy of any evidence of both the scope and nature of any default, and proof of any amount outstanding on the alleged accounts, has not been served attached to the claim form.

 

4. The Claimant fails to plead that this claim concerns an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act, 1974. However, the Claimant claims interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act, 1984 which the Claimant should surely know they are not entitled to by virtue of the County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order, 1991 (SI 1991 No. 1184 (L. 12)) in particular section 2(3)(a), which clearly prohibits such an award:

 

· The general rule

 

2(3) Interest shall not be payable under this Order where the relevant judgment - (a) is given in proceedings to recover money due under an agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974;

 

 

5. Consequently, I deny all allegations on the particulars of claim and put the claimant to strict proof thereof

 

 

6. I respectfully request the court’s permission to submit an amended defence should the claimant file a fully particularised Particulars of Claim

 

Statement of Truth

 

 

I xxxxxxxxxxx, believe the above statement to be true and factual

 

 

Signed .....................

 

Date

 

****************************************************

 

You are restricted to 8,000 characters to submit online which you will have to do now I think to make the deadline

 

A contains 1,506 characters and B contains 2,536.

 

You really need to have someone have a looksee at the above to ensure I am not leading you into trouble.

 

Then I suggest you get that SAR off as soon as you ca

Edited June 5, 2009 by citizenB
removed annoying formatting instructions

[citizenB]

I think you might be best advised to put in a counterclaim for those charges as well. I dont know how do that, however, this CAGer has

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-2150190.html

 

HTH

[Cartier-Bresson]

Yikes ! Just as well i checked ! I'm at work at the mo, so don't have any of my docs with me.

 

As per Recap.... All correct.

 

With regards to the CPR 31.14 request to Restons - they sent the following on 26th May:

 

1. The same bogus copy of the CCA that MBNA sent me and has been attached to an earlier post ... basically the credit card application with a set of regs that don't correspond on the other side.

 

2. The latest set of MBNA T&C's

 

3. All statements from June 2004 to Feb 2009

 

4. The default notice dated 6th March 2009

 

The SAR is a little more complicated really - before i joined this site / forum and before I actually knew what the term SAR actually meant, I requested from MBNA a copy of my CCA and details of all the transcations that have ever been conducted on the account. They sent me the CCA that you have seen and statements from 2003 [2 years worth missing]

 

I guess this is that same as requesting a SAR then ?

 

One other thing to note on the Claim Form is that the POC's include S69 Interest which I believe they can not try to collect from me .... which should eventually be included on the defence list I guess ?

 

With regards to those two choices of 'Holding Defences' posted [thanks], I may go for the second one. If it is to be submitted by Monday - can I actually submit it on-line on Monday ? Or would you recommend that I try to do it on-line over the weekend ????

 

Many thanks again for all help CB Regards > Cartier

[citizenB]

Yikes ! Just as well i checked ! I'm at work at the mo, so don't have any of my docs with me.

 

As per Recap.... All correct.

 

With regards to the CPR 31.14 request to Restons - they sent the following on 26th May:

 

1. The same bogus copy of the CCA that MBNA sent me and has been attached to an earlier post ... basically the credit card application with a set of regs that don't correspond on the other side.

 

2. The latest set of MBNA T&C's

 

3. All statements from June 2004 to Feb 2009

 

4. The default notice dated 6th March 2009

 

The SAR is a little more complicated really - before i joined this site / forum and before I actually knew what the term SAR actually meant, I requested from MBNA a copy of my CCA and details of all the transcations that have ever been conducted on the account. They sent me the CCA that you have seen and statements from 2003 [2 years worth missing]

 

I guess this is that same as requesting a SAR then ?

 

One other thing to note on the Claim Form is that the POC's include S69 Interest which I believe they can not try to collect from me .... which should eventually be included on the defence list I guess ?

 

With regards to those two choices of 'Holding Defences' posted [thanks], I may go for the second one. If it is to be submitted by Monday - can I actually submit it on-line on Monday ? Or would you recommend that I try to do it on-line over the weekend ????

 

Many thanks again for all help CB Regards > Cartier

 

 

Both of the defences you will be able to do on line they both fall within the character allowance.

 

Whether you can do them over the weekend, I really do not know. I will try and find that out for you.

 

I am sure Monday will be ok though as you have until the 8th to do it (by my reckoning anyway), I am still hoping that someone will look in and tell me MY math is wrong:rolleyes:

 

Although I dont think I am .. you say a few posts back (8th May I think) that the date of issue was 6th May + 5 for service = 11th +14 to acknowledge = 25th + 14 days further to submit = 8th June.

 

Yes, MBNA do continually bleat on about not being able to provide Data further back than 6 years which is rather convenient for them in this instance isnt it ?. When it comes to your Defence proper though you can chuck the money laundering regs, and other stuff at them which says they HAVE to keep stuff for longer than 6 years.

 

When you requested the information 2009 BC, (Before CAG) Did you request the information under the "Data Protection Act 1998 - Subject Access Request" and request EVERYTHING they hold on you and include £10.00 (legal fee). NOt sure they would have supplied you with anything other than you have advised above. I know that SS is advising the Communication log which shows all activity on the account is quite important.

 

The s69 interest. I have covered that in both the above defences in para 3 on the first one and 4 in the second.

Edited June 5, 2009 by citizenB

[guzzleguts]

Hi CB, if it helps i had a claim form issued on the 5th of may and i worked it out i had to have the defence in by the 7th june so i think your right the 8th june is correct.

 

GG

[citizenB]

Hi CB, if it helps i had a claim form issued on the 5th of may and i worked it out i had to have the defence in by the 7th june so i think your right the 8th june is correct.

 

GG

 

Phew, thanks GG

[supasnooper]

Hi C-B,

 

You can file your defence online on Monday or fax it to the Court before 4.00 p.m.

 

I would go with citizenB's second defence and submit online as it will then give you the opportunity to print it off on court stationary at the end.

 

Restons modus operandi is well known on this site and I would bet even if you submitted a defence similar to Arkell v. Pressdram, they would still go for Summary Judgment.

[Cartier-Bresson]

Right ..... I'm back on the case now !

 

Thanks for the all support so far guys - you are all life savers !

 

CB - The report I was sent from MBNA was in Feb and comprised of about 10 pages of indvidual transaction entries - it actually looked a bit like a standard access database query / report printout ?? They didn't charge me anything for it as I was continually writing to them with offers etc. They just sent me it for free ! I may formally request the full hit [comms log etc] though and pay the tenner - I'm gunna need everything they have on me I guess!

 

Two things I'm not too sure about : What does an 'embarrassed defence' actually mean ? And also, what is a 'Summary Judgment' ??? I should probably know what these things are seeing as I'm using the terms etc !

 

Will check out that counter claim thread as soon as I've posted this defence CB > Thanks

 

Regards > Cartier

 

p.s. Thanks for timings advice GG & Supa ..... Also good of you to pop in Sunflower ...... I'm going to try and do my best with this case ! Will drop in on your thread in a bit ....hope all is well.

[Cartier-Bresson]

My defence was posted on-line 10 mins ago and was dated 6th [today's date] - so I'm definitely in time I think !

 

What happens now ? !!!!

[supasnooper]

A copy of your defence is sent to restons by the court.

 

Restons have 28 days to decide what they are going to do.

 

If they proceed, you will receive a letter stating the case will be transferred to your local court and an Allocation Questionnaire which will need to be completed.

[citizenB]

an Embarrassed/holding defence is one that you put in if you have insufficient information to put in a full defence.

 

At the A&Q stage you will have the opportunity to ask the DJ to make the other side cough up paperwork you believe will enable you to put in a full defence.

 

I understand a Summary Judgement is where the claimant tries to persuade a DJ that your defence has no chance to succeed. My understanding is that Restons try this one a lot.. they use it as a mini trial to suss out the defendant and in some cases they discontinue before it goes to trial proper. I am sure someone will be able to explain it better and correct me if my understanding is incorrect.

 

It might be a good idea to start collecting information you feel would be useful to you, read up on the regulations, etc and generally prepare as best you can until the information you want/need is in your possession.

[Elgrand]

Just popping by to say good luck Cartier, watching this thread with great interest.

[Cartier-Bresson]

Many thanks Elgrand .... hopefully I'll have some good news in a month or two ! ;-)

[angel_1]

hiya Cartier-Bresson

 

just passing by and wishing you lots of energy and luck in the continuation of your case

 

will cag members on your side you will be well prepared

 

laters angel x

[sunflower99]

Hi Cartier-Bresson!

We both now at exacly same stage with Restons now:D although in my case they not responded to my CPR requests, I not heard a peep out of them since getting the court papers!

[Reader]

Good luck Cartier!

[Cartier-Bresson]

Many Thanks Angel & Reader .... need all the support I can get at the mo !

[Cartier-Bresson]

Help Required !!!!

 

Just recieved my 'Allocation Questionnaire' yesterday morning from Northampton County Courts. I must complete and return to my local County Court by 8th July 2009 !

 

What is my next move guys ??

 

Cheers > Cartier-Bresson

[citizenB]

Will try and find someone or information that will help.

[citizenB]

Here you go CB, some links that will give you some idea of what to do.

 

Thanks to GuzzleGuts, BRW and others

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1824715.html

 

Posts 58 onwards in the following link. - Guzzleguts

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/169316-john-lewis-cca-6.html#post2174188

 

The following have been provided by 42man

 

 

Useful threads filling out Allocation Questionnaires.

 

Link Financial County Court Summons - N150

 

Directions for N150 or N149 Allocation questionnaire - Paul's guide to N149 & N150 AQ's

 

Allocation Questionnaire...Urgent help needed please!!! - N150

 

Court papers received- what now??!!**WON**CASE DISMISSED - N149 (with draft order for directions)

 

upto the eyeballs v CL Finance No CCA IN COURT ** Help ** - N150

 

The dreaded court claim came today... - N150

[Cartier-Bresson]

Many Thanks once again CB - I'll have a good look at these later this evening - regards > Cartier

[angmarie]

Hi, im sorry if i should not be posting comments here im new and still getting confused with how to reply. Im in battle with MBNA at the moment, i sent them subject request on 13th June and then CCA request last week both recorded delivery. They have responded by letter saying they are not obliged to give information more than last 6 months and also charge £4.00 per statement. I asked them to only contact me by letter but they are still calling between 8-9 morning and night. On the advice of some one here i told them this morning all calls are being logged and recorded. (not recording really). If you are clearly disputing your account I was under the impression they cant issue default am i correct or just hopeful. Im dying to see CCA, as i know for a fact I never signed any official CA only application form.

 

I would be really grateful if any of you guys could shadow me as i continue to try and get relevant info that i need i only know what ive learnt on this site during last 3 weeks. I fell across this site purely by accident but im thinking was fate. Also is the deadline for them to respond to CCA 14 or 28 days. Many thanks if any of you could advise me.

 

Ang