meerkatsmimm vs. Nationwide Overdrafts

[meerkatsmimm]

Hello again folks,

 

I currently have two Cureent Accounts with Nationwide, one in my own name and the other shared with my husband.

 

I have been served Default Notices on both, even though one continues to get money deposited each month by the child benefit office, due to a mess up on their part.

 

Ive posted these up below, in both cases they have only allowed 14 days, no extra time, from the date the letter was typed/posted to the time action was due by. Unlike my Nationwide CC DN, they have a fixed date listed, rather than just stating 14 days.

 

However, they have no figure listed for the overdraft amount, just that the overdraft amount must be paid in full - but should that figure not be listed on the DN?

 

I would appreciate any assistance from those who know please. getting the KPR debt collectors threats, and have been for two months. How they are going to send them to doorstep me to get money!

 

They refuse to accept a part payment on these - £10 minimum on 1 and due to the Child allowance mess up (and even though they have defaulted me on this account) they refuse to lower the figure below £60 per month on the other account.

 

Thanks again x.

 

 

 

2nd Joint Account:

 

 

Edited May 3, 2009 by meerkatsmimm

[meerkatsmimm]

Ok a small update here and some help would be really appreciated by some of the senior members please.

 

CCA'd NW on these accounts at the start of the week, not sure if that was the right way to go, but having read pros and cons on the forum as to if you can cca on a current account with an overdraft, I sort of came to the conclusion that its still and agreement so they would have to have something in writing - (would it be termed a rolling reserve account perhaps?).

 

Anyway, me and my hubby were talking this morning about what paperwork we might go home to (been with family for a few days) and I checked my online banking out of curiosity. To my amazement, both my current accounts were missing from the screen although my e-savings (now empty!), another cureent account (without an overdraft), and my credit card were still showing.

 

So, I phoned them up. Got a guy on the phone who asked me for my security information, part of which was my address obviously. Then he went on to tell me that they have had some mail returned from my address and they have put the account in suspension until i go in branch and handover proof of who I am....

 

So....I moved last year and they have still be sending me mail to my old address (I have mail redirection set up) even though I have been informing them for months that I now live somewhere else. Every letter I have sent them has had my new address at the top of the page and this guy tells me that they dont have my new address on file.

 

So I tell him a little of the situation we are in, that my nearest branch is miles away and that I havent the money/ inclination/ time to go in branch and do this for them, when it is their mistake. I also ask him to send this information to my new address, which he refuses to do.

 

So I end the call, telling him I wont be going in branch and he tells me that the account will be suspended until I do.

 

As I hang up the call I realised that the address I gave him at the start of the call was my new address....and he accepted this as part of the security verification process and then proceeded to speak to me!!

 

So, am now starting to think they want me instore to get a 'signature' on something to confirm I am who they think I am, even though they know who I am and know were I now live.

 

Does this sound suspicious to anyone else? Advice on my next move would be really appreciated. I would have thought had they not been able to verify who I was and froze the accounts, they would done this with ALL my Nationwide Accounts, not just the two with overdrafts that need repaying? Plus I have been getting all my letters from them (stacks and stacks) on the re-direction, so a bit strange that they are saying they have mail that has been returned to them....

 

By all accounts the account is suspended and the guy said they wont be taking any further action on it until I go in branch to verify who I am. I didnt want to ask, but does this mean THEY have placed the account in dispute (so to speak) and they cant or wont be chasing me for the debt until I turn up?

 

Ill stop paying the £1 they wont accept if thats the case, this would be the statute bar clock started as well.

 

Interested to hear your responses folks, thanks x

Edited April 18, 2009 by meerkatsmimm
more info when I thought about it!

[meerkatsmimm]

Anybody have any ideas on this please?

[meerkatsmimm]

Anyone?

[meerkatsmimm]

Hi everyone,

 

Another bit to add to this after a recent letter from Nationwide. I was hoping someone from the site team/ or some senior members would have taken a look at our threads of recent, but especially the Nationwide ones, seem to have been overlooked. Could someone maybe have a read through them please as we are under a huge amount of pressue with so many debts and trying to handle them all at once is a nightmare that I am sure you all understand - we hang on your every word for encouragement and our next move, so please if you could spare 5 minutes, have a read through them and let us know your thoughts. Thank you.

 

Nationwide wrote back this week in response to my SAR request. As stated above, they refused to contact me to my current address, and removed my two current accounts with overdrafts from their online banking system.

 

The letter (which I will scan up below) tells me that even though I have been writing to them for months, they still dont have record or evidence that this is my new address. They also go on to state they dont have to do anything re: the SAR until I provide them with sufficent information to be able to carry out the request!

 

The second page asks for me to fill in which branch I want to go to to be able to collect the SAR info and also my signature......

 

What do I do here? Spoke with them on the phone and they state they will do nothing until I provide this, but here I am sending them a signature to use as these please?

 

Also had KPR onto me threatening me for the same account and that they have been 'instructed' by Nationwide to collect on the above account. Also that they were going to doorstep me. Sent a shove off letter to them on Thursday, asking for a CCA and warning them not to set foot on my property, that they have no invitation to do so. Have printed out copies of these letter to handout should someone try to turn up, also live in a street full of Police officers, including those across from us, so should make for an interesting encounter should they ignore my requests.

 

Short of signing this document, how do I get them to acknowledge my request?

 

Btw, the letter Nationwide sent did come to my current address, but as they say they included no personal info on the letter - just my name, address and the fact I hold a nationwide account of course... - then this isnt them breaching data protection, or them admitting they know were I now live...KPR are even writing to my old address, wouldnt like to be a fly on the wall there if they doorstep!

 

What can I do re. overdrafts, is CCAing them the way to go (have done this)? Am I better trying to get onto a repayment scheme with them (they mentioned £10 per month for one account, but I wanted to just pay the £1 we could just about afford which they refused).

 

We wont have many fees to reclaim, but im wondering if I do nothing more, will they do nothing more other than send threats? (until I admit my new address and sign that is).

 

Advice as always appreciated folks, scans to follow in 5 mins x

[meerkatsmimm]

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi again Meerkatsmimm ,

Re the CCA request, as I understand it this doesn't apply to Bank Accounts/overdrafts. It only applies to loans & credit cards.

It seems it was a Subject Access Request you sent,which is correct for Bank Accounts and unfortunately they can ask for a signature for this, but you can always put a couple of XX through it. (If there's no request for a signed credit agreement involved there's no point withholding a signature in case of creative "copying"... however if at any stage you intend to challenge the Credit Card you hold with them with a CCA then definitely put the crosses through your letter re the Bank A/C..and scan and keep a hard copy).

I would write back and reiterate your change of address, sending a utility bill from your old address and a recent (within 3 months) utility bill for your new address and state that this should be sufficient to confirm, and that you require the SAR posting to your current address. Are they sending your Card Statements to your new address by the way? If so point this out.

 

Hope this helps a little. Might be an idea to request that this thread be moved to the Debt Collection Industry forum for more expert help than I can offer.

If you want to do that click the triangle to the left and ask the Site team to move it for you.

Keep your chin up!

Elsa x

[tommy271007]

You are quite correct Nurse-Elsa that CCA agreements does not cover for bank accounts/overdraft.

 

However, if the default notice prescribed terms are not correct (the format) then there is definitely a case to get adverse data removed because of incorrect paperwork lodged.

 

So can anyone make a comment about the scanned default notice scanned above whether it is considered "valid" or not?

[citizenB]

grrrr I just did a long post with all the information you require for your Default notices.. only to lose the darn thing. I am will type it up again in a word document then transfer it over.

 

BRB

[citizenB]

Both DNs do not allow sufficient time for remedy

 

 

1st is dated 23rd February with remedy date of 9th March = 14 days. NO time allowed for postage.. ie 2 days for 1st class or 4 days for 2nd class post. If you have the envelope it came in that would be good.

 

 

2nd is dated 6th March with a remedy date of 20th March = 14 days. Same applies as above. No allowance for service.

 

The regulations are shown below:

 

 

 

Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561)

 

 

 

firstly,

 

 

 

Parties to agreement

 

2

(1) The name and a postal address of the creditor or owner.

(2) The name and postal address of the debtor or hirer.

 

next,

 

 

 

Details of breach of agreement and action required to remedy, or pay compensation for, the breach

 

3

A specification of:--

(a) the provision of the agreement alleged to have been breached; and

 

(b) the nature of the alleged breach of the agreement, specifying clearly the matters complained of; and either

 

© if the breach is capable of remedy, what action is required to remedy it and the date, being a date [not less than

fourteen days] after the date of service of the notice, before which that action is to be taken; or

 

(d) if the breach is not capable of remedy, the sum (if any) required to be paid as compensation for the breach and

the date, being a date [not less than fourteen days] after the date of service of the notice, before which it is to be paid.

next,

 

 

Quote:

 

4

 

Where any action is specified under paragraph 3© or (d) as required to be taken, a statement that the provision for the

taking of any action by the creditor or owner such as is mentioned in paragraph 6 will be ineffective if the breach is duly

remedied or the compensation is duly paid in the following form--

 

 

"IF THE ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE IS TAKEN BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN NO FURTHER ENFORCEMENT ACTION WILL BE TAKEN IN RESPECT OF THE BREACH".

 

and

 

 

IF YOU DO NOT TAKE THE ACTION REQUIRED BY THIS NOTICE BEFORE THE DATE SHOWN THEN THE FURTHER ACTION SET OUT BELOW MAY BE TAKEN AGAINST YOU.

 

 

 

it is in lower case not upper case and the regulations do stipulate that it must be as laid out in the regs verbatim as set out in section 2 (5)

 

 

Where any statement is required to be in a form specified in a Schedule to these Regulations and is reproduced in the notice, then apart from any heading to the notice, trade names or names of parties to the agreement--

 

(a) the lettering in the statement shall be afforded more prominence (whether by capital letters, underlining, large or

bold print or otherwise) than any other lettering in the notice; and

 

(b) where words are both shown in capital letters and underlined in any statement specified in a Schedule to these Regulations, they shall be afforded yet more prominence.

 

 

is that enough for you for starters

 

 

 

 

Para 123; Failure of a Default or Termination Notice to be accurate not only invalidates the Default or Termination Notice (Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain & Co - [1998] All ER (D) 339) but is an unlawful rescission of contract which would not only prevent the Court enforcing any alleged debt, but give the Claimant a claim for damages. (Kpohraror v Woolwich Building Society [1996] 4 All ER 119)

 

 

 

 

 

Read this excellent thread by surface agentX20.

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/170345-tale-dodgy-dn.html

 

HTH

Edited April 28, 2009 by citizenB

[citizenB]

meerkatsmimm, it is not unusual for a bank to say they will send Data to a branch and ask you to go in and collect, especially if there is a discrepancy in the address.

 

To which address did the DNs go to, have they sent any other sensitive correspondence to your new address. If so then they cant claim to not be aware of it and I would be pushing for them to comply with the SAR.

[meerkatsmimm]

Thank you Elsa, Tommy and Citizen B (especially for re-typing the lost message!)

 

I wasnt sure about CCAing them for the overdraft accounts, so done it to be sure. Glad to know these DN's are invalid, just wondering how I can 'pursue' them as I am doing with the NW Credit Card?

 

They have KPR on my back about these accounts (and now my CC as well) and although I CCA'd them at the start of March for my CC I have never heard a thing back in response to my letters. Then my two accounts with overdrafts disappear from my online accounts when I checked them - and they wont talk with me about them on the phone until I went sign a document in-branch. Now they say they wont send out the SAR until I sign this othe document.

 

As you state Elsa, I shouldnt have to sign, but they are insistant they wont send anything until I do. Im just wondering if they have already terminated the accounts?

 

KPR sent a letter in the last few days offering a one-off opportunity to pay one of the overdrafts off if I respond asap (well, 7 days). Dont say what they will offer as discount, but I dont have it whatever it is! Not unless they will take £1!

 

Thanks for all your responses and ill keep you informed - plus ill keep updating the KPR info on my debt collection ind. thread.

[meerkatsmimm]

Hey Citizen B,

 

No, they have been ignoring our change of address letters for 6 months now at least, although this happened several years ago when we moved as well. It took them 12 months to start to get it right then!

 

They did write their last letter to our new address (well new to them!) but other than our name and address and the fact we have a NW account, they didnt put any other sensitive info in it.

[citizenB]

TBH, I really dont know the answer to this. You could contact the ICO. If the bank staff accepted your current address as part of security over the phone whilst at the same time telling you they cant accept it for DAP purposes, then I imagine they have already blown their security procedures

[meerkatsmimm]

I would say so myself Citizen B, my new address was most certainly enough to satisfy them to be able to discuss my account over the phone.

 

Im just wondering if I do nothing, will they do the same until I do (as they stated the accounts were suspended/on hold until I signed info in branch - this was in response to the info on my 5th post on the thread). KPR are sending info, but ive CCA'd them and would assume they will pass this back to NW sooner rather than later.

 

One other thing, can a Current account/overdraft account be in dispute? Surely they would have had to have me sign something to agree to the overdraft (its credit isnt it?) and its a credit scoring based application, so that were I thought I needed to CCA them. However, since thats not the case, what can I do (short of paying them) to challenge this?

 

They wont accept the token payments, but KPR are now keen to settle at a reduced rate (or so it seems).

 

Any ideas?

[citizenB]

Yes, I would say they can be in dispute. If you are disputing charges for instance. I think the main argument in the Bank Charges claim thingy is that very few people were aware of the terms and conditions, if they even had sight of them at all.

 

If they are anything like HSBC, then they are quite likely to dig their heels in and not budge until you sign something. Although I think you can take them to court and force them to provide you with the data. I am not sure how you go about that though, you would have to find someone who has or kidnap a more knowledgeable Site team member.

 

Oooh, I think someone has just recently done that.. I will go and have a look

 

BRB

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/165349-smt37-morgan-stanley-goldfish.html

 

I dont know whether this would help. Someone took a creditor/dca to court in order to force them to provide a copy of the CCA. So I guess you could also do it for the full data bank

[meerkatsmimm]

Thanks Citizen B,

 

They are making my life very difficult at the moment and I dont want to make theirs any easier!

[meerkatsmimm]

I read SMT's thread with great interest, I think thats the way we are going with those creditors who wont co-operate, going to split them as there are soo many and we are getting bogged down!

 

So CPR request to Nationwide in response to them not providing the info requested. Good, they were one of the creditors we had plannedto write to today, but that will be done in earnest in the morning.

 

Thanks again Citizen B. Its appreciated hugely, especially in this household tonight.

[meerkatsmimm]

Update with this one.

 

No further news from NW with regards the SAR.

 

However, today I looked online at my credit file and found that Nationwide have terminated my account due to 3 months late payments in a row.

 

Given that they have now terminated the accounts and the DN's above are invalid, what can they do now to pursue me for the outstanding debt?

 

The only arrears I have on the account (above the agreed overdraft) are charges they were applying, late charges, etc.

 

Whats my next move with these please as I have no idea how to move these forward as they are bank accounts!

 

Thanks x

[citizenB]

I dont know if you will find any information in the following links re overdrafts. I think the OPs in the following links were in pretty much the same position as you find yourself.

 

OVERDRAFTS and the Consumer Credit Act

 

CCAs and overdrafts

 

Bank Account CCA

 

CCA and Overdrafts - The Final Word?

[meerkatsmimm]

Thanks CitizenB,

 

Ill have a good read through these with my lunch x