Shakespeare62 - v - a NastyBank

[shakespeare62]

Thanks Chris, IGNM and everyone for looking in. I'll let you know how I got on tomorrow afteroon.

[I've got no money]

Its' this Pascoe

Anglo_Leasing_plc_v_Pascoe_and_Another.DOC

[shakespeare62]

Ok great - cheers.

 

BTW, Brachers apparently like to serve an amended POC on people outside the SJ Door,

 

If they try it on me, I'm planning to refuse to accept it before the hearing on the basis that I haven't had time to consider it and it breaches CPR 24.5. This would be an extra reason to request an adjournment. The argument is that the SJ refers tot he Claim which they have amended.....

 

If this is incorrect etiquette please let me know...

 

I'll check back b4 leaving for Court this morning..

[I've got no money]

Not at all - you are a litigant in person - you need time to consider the position - you could tell the court that you want to take legal advice on any amended claim - AND you are entitled to refuse permission to amend

 

AND don't forget that if you refuse them permission they should apply to the Court for an Order - you should have at least three clear days notice of any application - to hand it to you outside court is not three days notice therefore the court should not allow them to amend

 

You could tell the Court that it is an attempt to ambush you which undermines the overriding objective of dealing with the case justly

[shakespeare62]

Excellent. Ok I'm ready to 'rock & roll'

 

I'll post up this afternoon (probably around 3pm or so)

[car2403]

I wouldn't refuse service of the document - you might find that it doesn't do what they want to do, so missing out on it might undermine that.

 

What you do need to do is make sure that the Judge is aware of their behaviour in such circumstances, as they need to be held to account for carrying on in such a way.

[r&b]

best of luck shakey..

[the_shadow]

I wouldn't refuse service of the document - you might find that it doesn't do what they want to do, so missing out on it might undermine that.

 

What you do need to do is make sure that the Judge is aware of their behaviour in such circumstances, as they need to be held to account for carrying on in such a way.

 

As car says, you need to ensure the judge knows they have "ambushed" you and you could ask the judge to leave the room for 10-15minsto consider the new evidence or document to help decide what action to take depending on the content or just ask the judge to consider an adjournment.

 

Best of luck today.

 

Shadow.

Edited June 5, 2009 by the_shadow
Spelling error and wrong comment removed.

[I've got no money]

There is a difference between accepting service - that is physically being handed a copy of an amended claim to agreeing to them amending. An amendment can only take place with your permission or by an order of the court

 

I personally still think the best approach is to refuse them permission to amend and make them apply to the court and then try to insists that you are entitled to three clear days notice of their application to amend...

 

As an LIP a 30 minute adjournment may not be enough - you're not a lawyer and you may need to spend some time working out what the amendment actually means

[I've got no money]

Any news?

[shakespeare62]

Judgement reserved.

 

Here's the detailed write up. This will need to be Appealed.

WRITE_UP_WORD.doc

Edited June 6, 2009 by shakespeare62

[I've got no money]

It's another *******Deputy District Judge....they are absolutely useless. Interestingly I used to have a couple of Partners who sat as DDJ's and they were told only to reserve judgment in the most exceptional of cases.

 

If you have to appeal you've got all the law in...on the basis of what you say I can think of a number of grounds of appeal without even seeing the judgment...

 

It just shows you how varied the quality of decision making is.

 

All you can do is wait and see

[I've got no money]

Which County Court was it heard in?

[shakespeare62]

Thanks Guys, the DDJ's failure to follow or understand the CPR, the failure to understand the important credit case law quoted, the failure to have my witness statement in front of him, or 90% my case law exhibits, the failure to know about s69 and the County Courts (Interest on Judgment Debts) Order 1991(No. 1184 (L. 12)). Paragraph 2 (3)(a) ....I mean what can I say ?

[shakespeare62]

Which County Court was it heard in?

 

Bristol

[r&b]

shakey excellent write up, seems u played a blinder. sorry if it was the ordeal it appears but i for one, cant see wot more u cud do mate. best of luck with this or any appeal...not that u shud need it in my opinion..

[shakespeare62]

As a sort of post mortem for others following in my footsteps, I was waiting for the assertions regarding Rankines and unfair charges not applying to the Default Notice etc. I had my heavy Counters for Rankines on this topic lined up - but the attack never came.

 

I assume the DDJ is going to attempt to perform the Claimants job for them and mention Rankine in respect of unfair charges...mistakenly thinking its all wrapped up.

Edited June 5, 2009 by shakespeare62

[I've got no money]

Don't forget that a DDJ - is a part time District Judge - s/he will work as a Solicitor or a Barrister in private practice.

 

So s/he will write up the judgment and send it in to court - it could easily take a couple of weeks. There is, however, an advantage to a reserved judgment the DDJ may well read the documents properly.

 

It really is a wait and see job

[shakespeare62]

I reckon if that was the House of Lords ...the Claimant's case would have been knocked flat. In truth, I reckon I won every round - from start to finish.

Edited June 5, 2009 by shakespeare62
tidied up

[the_shadow]

[sigh] establishment potentially wins again

 

Sounds like a right carve up.

 

 

S.

[shakespeare62]

remember Penelope Wilson won on appeal ....

[the_shadow]

remember Penelope Wilson won on appeal ....

 

Yes... should have put "potentially won round 1"

 

Just read the write-up and made my blood boil

 

S.

[car2403]

Lets not generalise regarding DDJ's

 

I know some very good DDJ's and have had some very good DDJ's deal with my cases in the past

 

If this isn't in your favour, it's down to the Judge lottery again, but I can't see how it's attributable to the DDJ being a DDJ

[supasnooper]

Just caught up with the thread.

 

Bad luck on the judge lottery front.

 

However, as IGNM has pointed out, the DDJ may re-read the documents as he has to do his write-up

[shakespeare62]

The Claimants solicitors failed to disclose before the SJ hearing that the original copy does not exist.

 

They refused me inspection of the original document when I requested it under CPR 31.15. The reason they gave when they refused was that "it was not the appropriate time for such a request" - see my post #53

 

I believe - in the circumstances, they were under a duty at the time to disclose that the original did not exist ....

 

This further prejudiced preparation of my case, it also caused me to spend £80 on N244 applications for disclosure of th original when they knew they didn't have it. (There is lot's of stuff to slam into the appeal). Still ..will need wait to for the reserved Judgment to be made....

Edited June 6, 2009 by shakespeare62