C L Finance (GE Store card) - Failure to comply with CPR request.**SETTLED BY CONSENT**

[Dorabell]

following with interest good luck:)

[GhostDebt]

Still waiting a response. May ring court for an update.....

 

Best regards

[Gazza112]

Hi Ghostdept

 

Following with interest, as i don't think i'm to far behind you with a Court Claim with CL Finance.

 

Gaz

[GhostDebt]

Update.

 

Response from court received as follows:

Claim allocated to fast track.

Please refer to judges directions attached.

Deputy DJ ordered that

1. claim is allocated to fast track

2. Disclosure of documents shall be dealt with as follows:

a) both parties shall give to each other standard disclosure of documents

by serving copies together with a disclosure statement by ...

b) any request to inspect the original of a copy document shall be complied with by ...

3. Both parties shall by ... serve on each other the witness statements of themselves and of all witnesses (other than expert witnesses) on whom they intend to rely

4. No party may rely on or adduce the evidence of any witness whose statement has not been served in accordance with this order without further permission from the court

5. The claim shall be listed for a case management conference on the first available date after ... with a time estimate of half an hour

6. At least three clear working days before the case management conference the claimant shall send to the court and the defendant draft directions which the claimant shall endeavour to agree with the defendant and a case summary limited to 250 words.

7. Because this order has been made by the court without considering representations from the parties, the parties have the right to apply to have the order set aside, varied or stayed. A party wishing to make an application must send or deliver the application to the court (together with any appropriate fee) to arrive within seven days of service of this order.

 

---

 

A case management conference date has also been included in the correspondance.

 

---

 

I think the best course of action now is to:

Confirm what if any documents I need to disclose. (Help here appreciated)

Contact them asking them to confirm a date when the original documents can be viewed and the documents I want to see.

Compose a witness statement.

 

Any further comments would be greatly appreciated.

 

Many thanks

[GhostDebt]

any further comments will be greatly appreciated

 

many thanks

[I've got no money]

Those directions sound a bit strange...

 

I don't see why they want a CMC - you wouldn't normally have one in a fast track case - I don't see what other directions you are going to want - the DJ seems to have coverred most options unless he's thinking about transferring to a Chancery County Court or perhaps amending the defence...

 

Can you give us the dates of disclosure and the CMC

 

In terms of what you do next - you need to sort out what documents you have - you probably won't have many - have you got the standard form - if not its' available online. Have a look at it and then come back to us with any questions.

 

At this stage you don't need to contact the other side just yet - as soon as you get their list you can worry about inspecting documents

 

In terms of your witness statement you should NOT under any circumstances finalise and serve it UNTIL you have had proper disclosure from the other side

[GhostDebt]

Hello IGNM,

 

Will get the disclosure list off the internet from the court website.

 

Document disclosure by 3rd June

Inspect original documents by 17th June

Witness statements by 15th July

CMC 10th August

 

Also rang the court who said that its the DJ's decision as to whether a CMC is required and not track dependant

 

Does this help? Many thanks for comments so far.

 

Regards

[GhostDebt]

Hi everyone,

 

Just a quick question, has anybody had similar direction from the court?

 

Regards

 

GD

[I've got no money]

Hello IGNM,

 

Will get the disclosure list off the internet from the court website.

 

Document disclosure by 3rd June

Inspect original documents by 17th June

Witness statements by 15th July

CMC 10th August

 

Also rang the court who said that its the DJ's decision as to whether a CMC is required and not track dependant

 

Does this help? Many thanks for comments so far.

 

Regards

 

I appreciate that its' the DJ's decision to have a CMC but you only normally get them in complex cases. The idea behind a CMC is that you discuss things like disclosure - but in this case you'll have dealt with disclosure etc - all that would be outstanding would be set ting the trial dates that you'd usually do with a listing questionnaire...unless the DJ is hoping that it'll settle by the CMC.

 

Anyway - getting back to important things - have a look at the disclosure form and then come back to us with questions.

 

In terms of inspection - once you get the list from the other side you can decide what you want to see - you can initially just ask for copies - the other thing is that if the other side don't comply fully with disclosure we need to know as you'll then need to apply for orders but we'll take it stage by stage.

[GhostDebt]

OK, have been reading around the forum and am looking at the following for the disclosure of my documents. Any comments greatly appreciated.

 

1. Correspondences

 

(A) Copy of County Court Claim form issued by Claimant.

(B) Copy of formal request to CL Finance. Requesting under the Civil Procedure Rules for disclosure of documents upon which the claimants are reliant on in court, with proof of posting and delivery.

© Copy of letter from claimant saying they do not have to comply with CPR

(D) Court Document: Acknowledgement by court of receipt of defence entered,

(E) Court Document: Advising Allocation Questionnaire enclosed

(F) Copy of Allocation Questionnaire (with additional information sheets) as returned to court. With proof of posting and delivery.

(G) Court Document: Notification of Allocation to the Fast Track, with Orders

 

2. Authorities and Case Laws

 

(AA) Civil Procedure Rules, Rules & Practice Directions.

(BB) Consumer Credit Act 1974

(CC) Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983

(DD) Consumer Credit (Agreements) (Amendment) Regulations 2004

(EE) Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983

(FF) The Administration of Justice Act 1970

(GG) The Consumer Credit Act 2006 (Commencement No. 2 and Transitional Provisions and Savings)Order 2007 (No. 123 (C. 6))

(HH)Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)

(II)Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

(JJ)Law of Property Act 1925

(KK) Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299

(LL) Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul)

(MM) Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain & Co - [1998] All ER (D) 339

(NN) Dimond v Lovell - [2001] GCCR 2751

(OO) London North Securities Ltd v Meadows and another[2005] EWCA Civ 956

(PP) Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2001] 3 All ER 229 court of Appeal

(QQ) Wilson v Robertsons (London) Ltd[2005] EWHC 1425 (Ch),

Many thanks

[GhostDebt]

bump for comments to above post ....

[I've got no money]

You don't need to include authorities in your list of documents - you then need to split your list into two groups - one of originals that you have e.g correspondence received from the claimants solicitors of various dates and to one group where you have no longer got the originals - it may be copies of letters you have sent to other people in which case they were last in your possession on the date they were posted OR it may be things that you had but have lost.

[micko19]

Really sorry about interjecting like this.My situation is very similar to the one here mentioned and I would really appreciate any advice on my next step.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/199195-desperate-plea-some-assistance-2.html#post2179785

 

micko

[shakespeare62]

I also believe you need to end your disclosure list with a statment of truth - an example is here :-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dca-legal-successes/124572-hfc-no-agreement-amended-6.html#post1347693

[I've got no money]

If you use the standard form - its' all on the form

[GhostDebt]

Been having a look at the N265 Disclosure Statement form. - Is this the right one?

 

Also, do you have to send the documents as well? or just the form and then only send the documents if they ask to see them?

 

Many thanks, still getting my head around this....

 

Regards

[I've got no money]

Yes - its' an N265

 

Whether you send copies with the form depends on what the Order says - it will either say disclosure by list with inspection in 14 days OR disclosure by the provision of copies

[GhostDebt]

Evening all,

 

Ok, have filled in the N265 as below:

 

Basic data in top right hand corner box self explanatory.

 

Start of disclosure statement self explanatory.

 

Tick - I did not search for documents

Tick - pre-dating start of claim

Tick - located elsewhere than in the possession of the defendant

Tick - I carried out a search for electronic documents, and add note created by the defendant on a home pc.

 

Tick - I did not search for the following

documents contained on or created by the 'tick' defendant

Tick - databases

Tick - back-up tapes

Tick - mobile phones

Tick - notebooks

Tick - PDA

Tick - portable data storage

Tick - servers

Tick - off site storage

Tick - laptops

Tick - handheld devices

documents contained on or created by the 'tick' defendant

Tick - Mail files

Tick - Calender files

Tick - spreadsheet files

Tick - web based applications

Tick - graphic and presentation files

 

sign & date. everything else not ticked

 

I have control of the docs numbered and listed here

 

- Please refer to the attached two page doc

 

I have had the docs numbered and listed but they are no longer in my control

 

- Please refer to the attached two page doc

 

Two page doc as below

 

DISCLOSURE BY LIST - of - Mr ** - DEFENDANT

I, Mr **, of **, being the defendant in this case, state that I have carried out a reasonable and proportionate search to locate all the documents which I am required to disclose under the order made by the court on *.

I intend to rely on the following documents in court:–

 

1. Documentation

I have control of the documents numbered and listed here. I do not object to you inspecting them/producing copies.

01. Copy of County Court Claim form numbered * dated *.

02. Letter from Howard Cohen & Co. Solicitors dated * stating ‘You will now have received a County Court Claim in the above matter’.

03. Letter from Howard Cohen & Co. Solicitors dated * sent in response to my letter dated * (See 16 below) stating ‘We are not obliged to provide this information’.

04. Letter from HM Court Services County Court Bulk Centre dated * acknowledging receipt of my defence.

05. Notice of Transfer of proceedings dated * from Northampton County Court Bulk Centre.

06. Notice that a defence has been filed dated * from Northampton

County Court Bulk Centre.

07. Letter from Howard Cohen & Co. Solicitors dated * stating ‘Our client has instructed us to write to you’.

08. Order from Deputy District Judge * dated *.

09. Notice of Allocation to Fast Track dated * from Northampton County Court.

10. Notice of Case Management Conference dated * from Northampton County Court.

11. Proof of postage/delivery to C L Finance of document 16 below.

12. Proof of postage/delivery to Howard Cohen & Co. Solicitors of document 16 below.

13. Proof of postage/delivery to Northampton County Court Bulk Centre of document 17 below.

14. Proof of postage/delivery to Northampton County Court Bulk Centre of document 18 below.

15. Proof of postage/delivery to Northampton County Court of document 19 below.

I have had the documents numbered and listed below, but they are no longer in my control.

16. Copy of formal request dated * sent from Mr * to Howard Cohen & Co. Solicitors and C. L Finance, requesting under the Civil Procedure Rules for disclosure of documents upon which the claimant is reliant upon in court.

Last in my control: * when it was posted to the Claimant and also their solicitors.

17. Copy of Acknowledgement of Service Form dated *.

Last in my control * when it was posted to Northampton County Court Bulk Centre.

18. Copy of Defence & Counterclaim Form dated *.

Last in my control * when it was posted to Northampton County Court Bulk Centre.

19. Copy of N150 Allocation Questionnaire dated * including additional section C information, additional section I information, draft order for directions, copy of letter at 03 above and a copy of letter at 16 above.

Last in my control * when it was posted to Northampton County Court.

2. Authorities and Case Laws

(AA) Civil Procedure Rules, Rules & Practice Directions.

(BB) Consumer Credit Act 1974

(CC) Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983

(DD) Consumer Credit (Agreements) (Amendment) Regulations 2004

(EE) Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices)

Regulations 1983

(FF) The Administration of Justice Act 1970

(GG) The Consumer Credit Act 2006 (Commencement No. 2 and Transitional Provisions and Savings) Order 2007 (No. 123 (C. 6)) - Statute Law Database

(HH) Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)

Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

(JJ) Law of Property Act 1925

(KK) Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299

(LL) Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul)

(MM) Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2001] 3 All ER 229 court of Appeal

(NN) Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain & Co - [1998] All

ER (D) 339

(PP) Wilson v Robertsons (London) Ltd[2005] EWHC 1425 (Ch),

(QQ) London North Securities Ltd v Meadows and another[2005] EWCA Civ 956

(RR) Dimond v Lovell - [2001] GCCR 2751

 

3. Statement of Truth.

 

I certify that I understand the duty of disclosure and to the best of my knowledge I have carried out that duty. I further certify that the list of documents set out in this List is a complete list of all documents which are or have been in my control and which I am obliged under the order to disclose.

 

I understand that I must inform the court and the other parties immediately if any further document required to be disclosed by Rule 31.6 comes into my control at any time before the conclusion of the case.

I believe the facts stated within this document to be true and the document comprises of two pages.

 

Dated this *th day of * 2009.

Signed .................................... (Defendant) Date ...................

--------------------

Whilst I appreciate that Item 2, Authorities and case law is not necessarily required, there are a number of cases on the forum where these have been included in the disclosure. Would appreciate some further comments on this before i send the disclosure off.

Also, based on the order I have to send copies of the documents as well, so I think sending/detailing the authorities would take ages to print and cost a load to post.. !

Also, do I send to the claimant? the claimants solicitor?.

Was thinking of sending to both and the court as well.. Any comments greatly appreciated.

Best regards.

Edited May 25, 2009 by GhostDebt
didn't complete before posting.

[I've got no money]

Evening all,

 

Ok, have filled in the N265 as below:

 

Basic data in top right hand corner box self explanatory.

 

Start of disclosure statement self explanatory.

 

Tick - I did not search for documents

Tick - pre-dating start of claim

Tick - located elsewhere than in the possession of the defendant

Tick - I carried out a search for electronic documents, and add note created by the defendant on a home pc.

 

Tick - I did not search for the following

documents contained on or created by the 'tick' defendant

Tick - databases

Tick - back-up tapes

Tick - mobile phones

Tick - notebooks

Tick - PDA

Tick - portable data storage

Tick - servers

Tick - off site storage

Tick - laptops

Tick - handheld devices

documents contained on or created by the 'tick' defendant

Tick - Mail files

Tick - Calender files

Tick - spreadsheet files

Tick - web based applications

Tick - graphic and presentation files

 

sign & date. everything else not ticked

 

I have control of the docs numbered and listed here

 

- Please refer to the attached two page doc

 

I have had the docs numbered and listed but they are no longer in my control

 

- Please refer to the attached two page doc

 

Two page doc as below

 

 

DISCLOSURE BY LIST - of - Mr ** - DEFENDANT

 

 

I, Mr **, of **, being the defendant in this case, state that I have carried out a reasonable and proportionate search to locate all the documents which I am required to disclose under the order made by the court on *.

 

I intend to rely on the following documents in court:–

 

1. Documentation

 

I have control of the documents numbered and listed here. I do not object to you inspecting them/producing copies.

 

01. Copy of County Court Claim form numbered * dated *.

02. Letter from Howard Cohen & Co. Solicitors dated * stating ‘You will now have received a County Court Claim in the above matter’.

03. Letter from Howard Cohen & Co. Solicitors dated * sent in response to my letter dated * (See 16 below) stating ‘We are not obliged to provide this information’.

04. Letter from HM Court Services County Court Bulk Centre dated * acknowledging receipt of my defence.

05. Notice of Transfer of proceedings dated * from Northampton County Court Bulk Centre.

06. Notice that a defence has been filed dated * from Northampton

County Court Bulk Centre.

07. Letter from Howard Cohen & Co. Solicitors dated * stating ‘Our client has instructed us to write to you’.

08. Order from Deputy District Judge * dated *.

09. Notice of Allocation to Fast Track dated * from Northampton County Court.

10. Notice of Case Management Conference dated * from Northampton County Court.

11. Proof of postage/delivery to C L Finance of document 16 below.

12. Proof of postage/delivery to Howard Cohen & Co. Solicitors of document 16 below.

13. Proof of postage/delivery to Northampton County Court Bulk Centre of document 17 below.

14. Proof of postage/delivery to Northampton County Court Bulk Centre of document 18 below.

15. Proof of postage/delivery to Northampton County Court of document 19 below.

 

I have had the documents numbered and listed below, but they are no longer in my control.

 

16. Copy of formal request dated * sent from Mr * to Howard Cohen & Co. Solicitors and C. L Finance, requesting under the Civil Procedure Rules for disclosure of documents upon which the claimant is reliant upon in court.

Last in my control: * when it was posted to the Claimant and also their solicitors.

17. Copy of Acknowledgement of Service Form dated *.

Last in my control * when it was posted to Northampton County Court Bulk Centre.

18. Copy of Defence & Counterclaim Form dated *.

Last in my control * when it was posted to Northampton County Court Bulk Centre.

19. Copy of N150 Allocation Questionnaire dated * including additional section C information, additional section I information, draft order for directions, copy of letter at 03 above and a copy of letter at 16 above.

Last in my control * when it was posted to Northampton County Court.

 

2. Authorities and Case Laws

 

(AA) Civil Procedure Rules, Rules & Practice Directions.

(BB) Consumer Credit Act 1974

(CC) Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983

(DD) Consumer Credit (Agreements) (Amendment) Regulations 2004

(EE) Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices)

Regulations 1983

(FF) The Administration of Justice Act 1970

(GG) The Consumer Credit Act 2006 (Commencement No. 2 and Transitional Provisions and Savings) Order 2007 (No. 123 (C. 6)) - Statute Law Database

(HH) Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents)

Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1557)

(JJ) Law of Property Act 1925

(KK) Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299

(LL) Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul)

(MM) Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2001] 3 All ER 229 court of Appeal

(NN) Woodchester Lease Management Services Ltd v Swain & Co - [1998] All

ER (D) 339

(PP) Wilson v Robertsons (London) Ltd[2005] EWHC 1425 (Ch),

(QQ) London North Securities Ltd v Meadows and another[2005] EWCA Civ 956

(RR) Dimond v Lovell - [2001] GCCR 2751

 

3. Statement of Truth.

 

I certify that I understand the duty of disclosure and to the best of my knowledge I have carried out that duty. I further certify that the list of documents set out in this List is a complete list of all documents which are or have been in my control and which I am obliged under the order to disclose.

 

 

I understand that I must inform the court and the other parties immediately if any further document required to be disclosed by Rule 31.6 comes into my control at any time before the conclusion of the case.

 

I believe the facts stated within this document to be true and the document comprises of two pages.

 

Dated this *th day of * 2009.

 

 

 

Signed .................................... (Defendant) Date ...................

--------------------

Whilst I appreciate that Item 2, Authorities and case law is not necessarily required, there are a number of cases on the forum where these have been included in the disclosure. Would appreciate some further comments on this before i send the disclosure off.

Also, based on the order I have to send copies of the documents as well, so I think sending/detailing the authorities would take ages to print and cost a load to post.. !

Also, do I send to the claimant? the claimants solicitor?.

Was thinking of sending to both and the court as well.. Any comments greatly appreciated.

 

Best regards.

 

You don't need to list the corresp with the court - I'd simply say correspondence with County Court of various date. Likewise I'd say pleadings common to the parties (which covers the claim form and defence)

 

The other thing you must have had statements and letters concerning the account. You either need to include them on the list where you no longer have docs - statements of account of various dates - and say that you no longer have them and explain why (they've been lost etc) or put them in the section where you have them and to provide copies.

 

The form goes to the other sides Solicitors and not the court - the court won't do anything with your list/bundle - you're only wasting money sending it to it.

 

The whole point of disclosure is to enable the parties to identify evidence in documentary form that is in the other sides possession and to obtain copies of that evidence. Authorities do not fall within that ambit and therefore do not need to be included on the list - sending the other side hundreds of pages of authorities is not only expensive but IMHO pointless. I really would not include them.

[GhostDebt]

Morning all,

 

Received the disclosure list from them recently.

Still preparing mine to send early next week.

 

They also sent a covering letter which included the following statements:

 

In the event that satisfactory proposals are not received within 7 days it will be our intention to apply to the court for summary judgement and that you pay the costs of the application, which we estimate to be in the region of £x

We can advise that at this stage our estimated costs to proceed in this case will be in the region £x. To save any further costs being applied to the debt our client would be minded to allow you to withdraw your defence and make repayments at an agreed instalment rate by way of a consent order.

 

Now assuming the judges orders are complied with by both sides can either party apply for a summary judgement?

 

Is a consent order still a CCJ?

 

What is the correct procedure for ammending my defence? in light of the information they have now finally provided...

 

Many thanks.

[GhostDebt]

Also,

 

Have drafted the following covering letter to go with the disclosure.

 

I refer to the above matter and in particular to the order made by * dated *.

Please find enclosed for filing, the defendants Disclosure statement and List of Documents, together with copies of documentation referred to therein.

I would also like to draw your attention to the following:

1. I note that the statements you have provided are incomplete, in that there are periods of the alleged agreement where these have not been provided.

Could you confirm what reasonable and proportionate attempts have been made to obtain the missing statements and when you will be able to provide them.

2. I note that whilst you have provided the Notice of Assignment, you have not yet provided a copy of the Deed of Assignment. Please confirm when you will be able to provide a copy of this document.

3. In accordance with the order made by * dated * point *, I formally request to view the original Credit Agreement document referred to in your disclosure statement.

Please contact me in writing with your proposals for viewing the original document.

I can advise you at this stage that should your claim fail you will be liable for wasted costs and appropriate counterclaims. In order to prevent this you would be minded to discontinue your claim

In addition, a copy of this letter and proof of postage / delivery will be sent to the court for inclusion in the case file.

Yours faithfully.

 

 

-------------------

 

Any comments on this letter would be greatly appreciated.

[creditcardmug]

Also,

 

Have drafted the following covering letter to go with the disclosure.

 

 

I refer to the above matter and in particular to the order made by * dated *.

 

Please find enclosed for filing, the defendants Disclosure statement and List of Documents, together with copies of documentation referred to therein.

 

I would also like to draw your attention to the following:

 

1. I note that the statements you have provided are incomplete, in that there are periods of the alleged agreement where these have not been provided.

Could you confirm what reasonable and proportionate attempts have been made to obtain the missing statements and when you will be able to provide them.

 

2. I note that whilst you have provided the Notice of Assignment, you have not yet provided a copy of the Deed of Assignment. Please confirm when you will be able to provide a copy of this document.

 

3. In accordance with the order made by * dated * point *, I formally request to view the original Credit Agreement document referred to in your disclosure statement.

Please contact me in writing with your proposals for viewing the original document.

 

I can advise you at this stage that should your claim fail you will be liable for wasted costs and appropriate counterclaims. In order to prevent this you would be minded to discontinue your claim

 

In addition, a copy of this letter and proof of postage / delivery will be sent to the court for inclusion in the case file.

 

Yours faithfully.

 

 

-------------------

 

Any comments on this letter would be greatly appreciated.

 

Really like your style with this letter:)

[GhostDebt]

Thanks for your response ccm, hope all is well.

 

Regards

[Gazza112]

Hi Ghostdept as CCM said brilliant letter, love to see there faces when there read it.

 

Gaz

[creditcardmug]

Im fine, thanks for asking, life is becoming busier, so dont have as much time to concentrate on CAG, but do all i can.

 

Kind regards CCM