SORN passed to DCA

[fwog]

Hi,

Had a £40 fine for not SORNing a vehicle before Christmas. I had sent off a letter to the DVLA prior to declaire the vehicle off road.

Having read the threads on this forum, I sent them Sorn template letter. This letter was sent recorded on December 15. I've had no contact from the DVLA, neither acknowledging the letter or responding to it.

 

On Friday, 13 February, I had a recovery letter from the bailiff for the sum of £80.

 

Any ideas on where I go from here? It's nearly 2 months from posting the recorded letter, and probably three months from receiving notice that the fine had Increased to £80.

 

Any ideas would be appreciated.

 

Best regards,

 

Fwog

[Conniff]

This wasn't a bailiffs letter, it will be a debt collector, a big difference. Bailiffs come from courts so you will have had a summons and either failed to answer to it or lost by default before any bailiffs get involved.

You also get 14 days warning that bailiffs will be calling.

 

Have you checked with Roayl Mail that the letter was delivered to DVLA.

[fwog]

Hi Conliff

 

Thanks for pointing that one out, it was a DCA and not Bailiff (used the term at the top of headed letter).

Just had a look for the receipt and I seem to have shredded it (have one for something else where this one should be :/) I can go back to PO and get a copy of the number , Im sure they would have a record.

I assumed (wrongly) that as it was recorded, it would be delivered not lost. Maybe this is the case?

Is the time scale usual for this type of thing?

 

 

 

Will have a word with PO for my next post.

 

Thanks again

 

Fwog

[crem]

I assumed (wrongly) that as it was recorded, it would be delivered not lost. Maybe this is the case?

Is the time scale usual for this type of thing?

 

I would suggest your assumtion that the PO would have delivered the letter correctly is not wrong. I believe 99% of the mail addressed to the DVLA that is lost, is lost INSIDE the DVLA, not before!

[Conniff]

I agree with crem - the po just can't lose that amount of mail and why is all the lost mail addressed to DVLA.

[crem]

I agree with crem - the po just can't lose that amount of mail and why is all the lost mail addressed to DVLA.

 

Just had a thought Conniff. Maybe the PO are in colusion with the DVLA and in agreeing to "misplace" loads of their letters, they get a percentage cut from all the SORN fines. Be a nice little earner for them both.

 

Although I still think the DVLA do a good enough job of loosing mail without anyone elses help.

[fwog]

Hi

Didn't get hold of the PO today. What would be the situation if the letter was received and they just passed the fine to DCA?

I did post notification of the SORN. The letter stated this and I also stated the refusal to acknowledge the DVLA's right to fine me.Do I fight it in court? Or open new communications with DVLA and this time send it recorded? (not registered)

Im peeved to be put through this process by the DVLA. Would I be able to ramp up costs for time and inconvenience?

 

Fwog

[fwog]

Bumpy

[buzby]

Nope.. You can state in your letter that you reject their rights, but the bottom line is they can ignore this and the train rumbles on regardless. Should you wish to take it to court, then it is at your expense, and these days - the cost of the fine(s) would be considerably less than being proved right in court.

[patdavies]

Should you wish to take it to court, then it is at your expense, and these days - the cost of the fine(s) would be considerably less than being proved right in court.

 

Depends on where fwog lives. In Scotland, no costs are payable at summary court. However, in E&W, the winner can claim costs.

[buzby]

This is true, however the cost of raising the Summary Cause is around £120, and unlike Small Claims, there is no discount for special cases.

[fwog]

This is true, however the cost of raising the Summary Cause is around £120, and unlike Small Claims, there is no discount for special cases.

 

Mmmmmmmmm....

 

I would go with a court case. Effectively the DVLA are ripping people off in the knowledge of what you have written Buzby. If enough take a stand, there must be a fundamental change at the DVLA. I have complained to the DVLA before and only received platitudes of '..we are trying to improve our service' and '...we do apologise for the inconvenience. Well I dont think theyre doing enough off their own back, therefore, the only way to get them thinking would be to go to court.I will win and they can foot the costs. Obviously an internal memo will be created as to why they ended up in court and this will carry far more weight than a mere 'end-user' complaint.

 

Firing letter off to head of Midland DVLA to that effect tonight.

 

Fwog

[crem]

Obviously an internal memo will be created as to why they ended up in court and this will carry far more weight than a mere 'end-user' complaint.

 

An internal memo may well be created, but in all likelyhood it will get lost on the way to the SORN department!!

[fwog]

An internal memo may well be created, but in all likelyhood it will get lost on the way to the SORN department!!

 

Lol:D

 

But seriously, if I ran a business in this manner, I'd be typing this from Pentoville Prison:evil:

I spoje to an operator yesterday, I wanted to clarify why they'd ignord my letter. They said all correspondence was passed to the DCA. I said I'd posted the letter in Dec ,the DCA letter came in Feb!

The convesation went..

 

me 'the time scale for passing to a DCA. Does a letter thats posted in December usually not get responded to till Feb?'

 

Op 'Oh yes'

 

Me' Im recording this converstion so I'd advise you to respond with accurate answers'

 

Op 'CLICK..Brrrrrr'

 

 

:D:D

 

Its better than timeshare!

 

Fwog

[fwog]

Ive had an £80 from DVLA re not sorning a vehicle. I have sent off the sorn, not got a reply and left it till I recieved a £40 fine. I wrote to the DVLA (recorded) they escalated the fine to £80:rolleyes:. I then wrote again,no reply.It went to a DCA, wrote to the head of department (DVLA) explaing the car was SORN and using the template on this forum, no reply. Im on my last DCA letter (the third), whats the advice on this? Im not a repeat offender, never been in this situation before even though I own and tax several cars. I resent being criminalised and made to pay a fine whilst Im trying to communicate with said department. £80 is alot of money to pay out for maladministration

 

Where do I go from here?

 

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Fwog

[crem]

Why have you received 3 letters from the DCA? Didn't you write to them after the first pointing out it was in dispute? If you did, any subsequent latters from them would be illegal as the debt must be returned to the principle in those cases, and will no doubt prove to be useful if the DVLA pursue it to court.

[fwog]

The DVLA told me that all letters would be passed to DCA anyway, so,I thought it would reach both parties if sent to DVLA. Looks like I was wrong on that score

Saying that, I did think that opening communications would negate the need to inform DCA ? Can I write to DCA and explain at this stage?

 

Thanks for looking Crem

Fwog

[crem]

TCan I write to DCA and explain at this stage?

 

There is nothing for you to "explain" to the DCA. You simply inform them that the debt is in dispute and they are legally obliged to return the file to the DVLA. Inform them that the only further contact you expect to receive from them is confimation that their involvement has ceased.

 

Should this not happen then and you are continued to be pursued by the DCA, then it will all go in your favour if the DVLA go all the way to court with this.

[fwog]

Ta!

Letter signed,sealed and recorded.

So a DCA can only pursue people who refuse to pay, is that why a letter will suffice?

 

Fwog

[crem]

So a DCA can only pursue people who refuse to pay, is that why a letter will suffice?

 

 

No, a DCA can only pursue an outstanding genuine debt. The DVLA have not yet established that a debt exists as you have disputed that fact. Therefore they cannot engage a DCA until they resolve with you, either directly or through court, that the alledged debt exists.

[fwog]

Hi All,

Well ve had my response fron theDVLA. Theyre ignoring the contents of the template letter and continuing with the action. The letter theyve sent is 3 weeks ago, I also recieved a letter from the DCA posted the previous day ,giving me 7 days to comply and pay the £80:confused:

The vehicle is now taxed and is off road.

 

Here the letter.....

 

Dear Mr X

 

 

Although you state that you have written to us on several occasions, I can confirm that no

previous correspondence has been received at this office in relation to this vehicle. As a

result the Agency has been unable to reply to the said letters as we have not been made

aware of their existence.

 

I note that you are of the opinion that you have been treated unlawfully by DVLA.

However, I must advise that the Agency considers the imposition of the supplement to be

lawful and that the provisions contained in Section 7A of the Vehicle Excise and

Registration Act (VERA) 1994 are not in conflict with the Bill of Rights Act (BoRA) 1689

or the Human Rights Act. I should explain that the supplement is neither a fine nor a forfeit

under BoRA, it is a supplement and non payment may result in Civil Court action. The

registered keeper of the vehicle is therefore entitled to his/her day in court and provisions

of BoRA are met. I therefore confirm that the Agency considers that the penalty has been

levied legally and that the provisions of me VERA are fully compliant with the Bill of

Rights. Please note that the supplement is referred to as a penalty as the general public are

more familiar with its meaning.

 

The Bill of Rights was designed to prevent the levying of taxes and fines by Crown

prerogative and thus without the consent of Parliament. Since the legislation I refer to was

made by the Crown in Parliament (in the case of the Act) or subject to procedure in

Parliament (in the case of the Regulations) they comply in full with the requirements of the

Bill of Rights. The Agency is charged with responsibility for enforcing this legislation.

 

To date, you have failed to provide any documentary evidence to prove your compliance with

the regulations. On the basis of the information you have provided, it appears that you are pay the Late Licensing Supplement. The vehicle excise licence for *******

expired on 31st July 2008. The vehicle was not re-licensed. Neither a SORN nor a disposal

notification was received within the period prescribed by law. This vehicle was registered in

your name on the date of liability and as the registered deeper, you are responsible for

ensuring that you are aware of the regulations and are fully compliant with the law.

 

As such, I am satisfied that the action taken against you is correct and proper in accordance

with the legislation and therefore the penalty of £80.00 remains due. Credit/Debit card

payments can be made by calling 0121 786 2400. Please note that this is a payment line

only and clerks will not be able to discuss the case with you over the telephone.

Cheques/Postal Orders made payable to 'DVLA' should be sent to the above address.

 

If full payment is not received by 23/01/2009, the Agency may refer this matter to a Debt

Collection Agency or consider issuing a claim against you through the County Court. This

may result in you incurring additional costs. Any further communication will not defer this

deadline and this action will be taken without any notification.

 

I would like to reassure you that it is not our intention to persecute honest motorists. Our aim

Is not to issue penaltiesybut to enhance the accuracy of the vehicle records ari(T to reducethe

number of unlicensed vehicles on public roads, thus providing benefits for road safety and

tackling car crime. The penalty for failing to re-license a vehicle has been set at £80.00 by

law, reduced to £40.00 if paid within the first 28 days of the 56-day payment period. This

payment system is one that has been tried and tested by various enforcement departments,

and reflects the severity of contravening statutory obligations. We are charged with enforcing

legislation passed by Parliament and given Royal assent. A letter concerning any alleged

breach of legislation must therefore convey unequivocal information about what could

happen if a matter remains unresolved.

 

Should you remain unable to accept the reasons for the action the Agency has taken against

you I have enclosed a copy of the Agency's leaflet entitled 'If things go Wrong' (INS121) for

your convenience which details the next stage in our complaints process. However, if you

choose to pursue this course of action you will need to provide documentary evidence to

prove that your legal obligations were fulfilled. It obviously remains your prerogative to refer

the matter to your MP. He may in turn refer the matter to the Parliamentary and Health

Service Ombudsman (PHSO), should it be deemed that this course of action is appropriate.

 

Should you need to write to us again, please quote the vehicle registration mark.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Miss S Cox

Enforcement Manager

West Midlands Regional Enforcement Centre

 

 

Any ideas on where to go from here? What about swearing an oath at the county court?

 

Any input will be appreciated.

 

Fwog

[fwog]

Bumpy!

[buzby]

It's nice to see you're keeping them busy - but if they've now passed it to a debt collector, why waste your effort in writing to all and sundry? Treat it as you would a communication from one of those private parking firms. Ignore them, and only respond when there is a valid court date and a request to submit defences.

 

There's always the chance you'll hear nothing more - but, if you can swear on oath that you did indeed declare a SORN by post, and that DVLA are known to be notorious for 'losing' such responses, you see n reason why you should be fined for their incompetence. The fact the courts deem a letter is delivered the following day, the DVLA should be held to no less of a standard.

 

It'll be their cost to raise the action, so wait and prepare yourself.

[fwog]

Many thanks Busby.

It seems Birmingham DVLA seem to steam ahead with any action and don't offer any recourse for any thing going wrong.

I will post with any new developments

 

Thanks again for the input

 

Fwog