Bailiffs notification

[damjef]

Hello all I,m currently looking for some advise regarding my situ, if someone can comment i would be grateful...

 

In sept 08 had a bit of financial difficulty and couldn't pay council tax so sent them a letter end of oct08 stating that I would try and make a payment in Nov08 and then pay the full balance in jan09.

Couple of days later received a letter stating that they were taking me to court for arrears, (quite suprised for 2 missed payments??) At this point I just presumed that the letters had crossed and that they would receive my letter and accept my proposal.

In Nov08 I paid 2 installments as I proposed and carried on as normal thinking everything was fine as I had not heard anything.....

Jan08 had a letter pushed through the door from Bristow & Sutor stating that they had come to collect lots of money for council tax arrears! unfortunately I wasn't in but needless to say the balance of council tax had been paid. A few days later they call again and I told the chap that I had paid all of my council tax and didn't owe anything and as far as I was concerned he shouldn't be here, He went away! A few days later another chap turns up asking for the same amount! He was told that I had paid, he said that he would phone the office to check, He then came back and said that we owe Court Costs of £69 and fees to the value of £90. I basically told him that I'm not paying him anything and if he wants any money from me to put it in writing. He passed me an envelope and walked away. I immediately sent a chq to the council for the court costs so as far as I was concerned job done...

I have now received a letter...

'Notification Prior to Sale of Goods'

Take notice that we have now instructed auctioneers to advertise your goods etc...

What should I do? I'm quite sure something is a miss here because I didn't even receive a letter regarding judgement, the first I knew it had actually been to court was when the bailiff pushed his demand through the letter box, Also I have read here that you should receive 14 days prior notification of a bailiff visit. If this is the case then should I pay them anything as they have not acted within the guidelines?

Bit long winded but many thanks for reading...

[KJD]

Hi demjef,

 

They will argue you got notice from the council saying that a bailiff will call if you don't pay as your 14 day notice, but a lot of people don't seem to get them

 

So they are trying to charge you £90 which they say is for their fees. Have they given you a breakdown of this figure?

 

By my reckoning they could argue that they would be entitled to £24.50 for the 1st visit, plus £18.00 for the 2nd visit, but I think you would have grounds fight them on these because you had already settled the account with the council. It's not your fault the council didn't have their house in order and notify the bailiffs the account was paid.

 

You'll need to get a letter off to the council (whatever they say, they are responsible for the bailiffs & they're actions), but in the meantime, you need to pull up your drawbridge and be prepared for a tustle (sp)..

 

If you've got a car in the name of anyone on the liability order / debt, park it well away from the house;

 

If they come back, do not let them in under any circumstances;

 

When you go out, make sure all your doors and windows are locked.

 

We know you are in the right here, but they will try anything to get this off you.

 

Can you give us a timeline on the letters / your payments / their visits?

[chris600uk]

If you have paid the sum listed on the liability order, then you can tell the bailiffs to get stuffed.

 

You must check with the council how much the order was for.

Don't talk about anything else, just ask them that question, you are entitled to that information - whether the account has been passed to the bailliffs or not

[chris600uk]

Oh, and do exactly as KJD says

[KJD]

The cavalry's arrived.. :D:D

[chris600uk]

Lol

[damjef]

Lol

Thanks everyone for your input, Liability order?? wots that?

The first paperwork I had was in Jan09, it was pushed through the letter box by the bailiff on his first visit, Two weeks later on the third visit I had some more paperwork which was handed to me. when I opened it, it had a Notice of seizure of goods letter with an inventory sheet. on the inventry sheet it had listed the car and the work van. It's quite ironic really cos the car will be at the main dealers for a few days being repaired (this is on hp and isn't mine) and i'll be out working in the van!

the fees were broken down as follows...

 

1st visit paperwork

visit charge £24.50

 

3rd visit paperwork

court costs £69.00

attendance levy£42.50

levy fee £24.50

redemption goods £24.50

I paid the court costs at this point direct to the council, couldn't do it before because I didn't know how much they were until I saw them on this breakdown.

 

then yesterday received a letter of 'Notification prior to sale'

REF:Council Tax Due

instructed auctioneers to advertise goods which are subject to distraint etc...

saying that if i didnt pay them £160.50 by 16th feb the bailiffs would attend. (which appears to be the total of the 3rd lot of paperwork.)

 

I've just written a letter to B&S stating that as far as i'm concerned my debt to the council is settled and as they didn't give me any prior notification of their visit I think their charges are unjust if not unlawful. I will post today RD and see what happens. I'll duplicate the paperwork and send it to the council also RD

Many Thanks..

Edited February 12, 2009 by damjef

[chris600uk]

If the date of the levy falls AFTER the date you paid the sum outstanding to the council, then the levy is invalid, and the council tax regs 1992 clearly state that, see section 45.

 

If you have informed them of that, then any further enforcement action will be illegal - you must clearly explain that to them; copy to the council, the head of the council tax dept.,your councillor, and your MP.

 

You must involve as many people as possible

[chris600uk]

Don't worry when the bailiffs say that the council does not inform them if payments are made directly; that's not your problem, and anyway the bailiffs are acting as the Agent of the council.

 

However, it is only sensible to formally inform them in writing/email if you haven't already done that

[damjef]

Thanks chris600uk, I have sent both the council and bailiff a letter RD yesterday, I will take ur advice and send them an email also.

I have to say that 'I know we all have to pay for services provided by the local government to some extent but I think it a bit harsh that they come down really heavy on minor case's and then right off thousands of pounds owed by others who have no intention of paying, I suppose its a dead cert for them to be paid for the minor ones. It's a shame that they have to use such under hand tactics.'

One thing for sure though between the council and the bailiffs they always seem to have the wrong info! their means of communication must be grim.

I'll send the emails and then suppose i'll wait and see what happens! shall report back in due time....

[damjef]

Hello all,

I received a letter today from B&S, basically acknowledging that there is a balance outstanding (relevant to their fees albeit incorrect totals) but are quoting council tax regulation 52(4) and if i don't pay by return they will be coming back to cease my goods plus i would incur further charges. On reading the regs it seems they may have me over a barrel. Suppose just got to face the fact that its morally wrong, legally right and cough up. :evil:

 

To date I still have not received any correspondence from my local council, in fact the last letter I actually received in connection with this whole sorry case was the summons from the court, no liability order, nothing...

Suppose they can do what they like...

Thanks everybody for your input...

[chris600uk]

Relationship between remedies

52.—

 

(4) Where a step is taken for the recovery of an outstanding sum which is or forms part of an amount in respect of which a liability order has been made and under which additional costs or charges with respect to the step are also recoverable in accordance with this Part, any sum recovered thereby which is less than the aggregate of the amount outstanding and such additional costs and charges shall be treated as discharging first the costs and charges, the balance (if any) being applied towards the discharge of the outstanding sum.

 

Is this what you meant?

[chris600uk]

So the question is, did the levy come after the payment in full, or before?

 

It's a critical point.

[damjef]

Thanks chris600uk,

Yes thats the one! Well this is the sneaky bit really (on their part) because I had paid the council tax in full before the levy but had not paid the court costs purely for the fact I didn't know how much they were as I had never received any paperwork. On the third visit by the bailiff we received the Notification for the Seizure of Goods and listed was the court costs so they were paid right away to the council direct.

So I presume that if 52(4) is in place when I paid the first amount (which would have been before the bailiff visit ) this would effectively be payment for the court cost and part council tax? therefore on their third visit I would actually owe council tax (equal to the value of court costs, their first, second and third (levy) visit?)...

[chris600uk]

The liability order amount is the amount that must be paid before the levy.

 

It's made up of the council tax debt, the court application fee and court costs.

[damjef]

Apologies but i'm getting a little

Is the levy the 'seizure of goods notification' or the 'bailiffs fees'?

basically regardless of wether I received the liability order or not I have to pay the fees because I hadn't settled the court costs at the time I was given the 'seizure of goods notification'?

Thanks again!

forgot to mention my local councillor has replied to my email offering his assistance, so I will see what transpires...