Norhern Ireland - completely SICK

[gyzmo]

Have I woken up in an alternate reality? I really do feel like vomiting.

 

Just heard that our government, not satisfied with doling our money out to banks and other corporations (private) for the mess they have helped create, but is now dishing it out to terrorists.

 

Couple of things:

 

1. Can we stop referring to the terrorists acts as "the troubles". It wasn't some leaky plumbing or a nasty divorce, it was wanton violence and murder.

 

2. If these terrorists are getting some money, can someone give a friends relative some money? He, amongst other things, lost the use of a leg (still attached) and is partially deaf. He has received no compensation and cannot claim disability because his wife has the gall to earn about £600 a year above the threshold to receive the money. His crime and involvement was walking down a high street buying a birthday present for his nephew when some cowardly treasonous b****** decided that setting off a bomb in a city centre would be a good idea to solve their disagreements.

 

No doubt this post will receive the attention of cagbot, and shame if it does seeing as those [edited] - and yes Gerry Adams and his gang [edited] are for refusing to swear an oath of allegience to Her Majesty - have argued that they have a voice that should be heard. Well so does the person I refer to. Except his has been ignored - not that it is very loud anyway due to his injuries.

 

And before anyone has a go at me, I am not referring to the general population of NI, the vast majority of whom I am sure were as sick as their fellow citizens on the mainland of the violence.

 

This government must be kicked out for insulting humanity, decency, common sense and god knows what else.

Edited January 28, 2009 by jonni2bad
Whatever the subject, if you post on CAG please do so within the rules.

[rory32]

I thoroughly agree with you gyzmo. Unfotunately most people in England will not have a clue what you are talking about - CofE and all that sort of thing.

 

Belfast and Glasgow are described as two siamase twins who refused the operation to seperate.

 

In Scotland we are very aware of what the paramilitary scumbags (particularly on the west side of scotland) have done to people - on both sides. The fact that sinn fein is a recognised party I will always see as a disgrace.

[Lula]

Unfotunately most people in England will not have a clue what you are talking about - CofE and all that sort of thing.

 

.

 

How incredibly distastful and racist !

[gyzmo]

What I read in that bit you quoted of Rory is that a lot of people are unaware of the causes of teh conflict, or even that there was one. A lot of it is put down to religion - Protestant v Catholic (Republicans et al v Loyalists et al). I did not read anything racist in it myself.

[Lula]

Anyway, it is one of his assumptions that the English know nothing, and I would beg to differ, many English know about what is going on in Ireland and even Scotland, many of us are indeed descended from inhabitants of those countries.

[gyzmo]

I have not read any of the other comments, but I thought it was a reference to the general "dumbing down" I seem to be seeing of today's younger people. Many in my workplace do not know of Churchill, know that there have been 2 world wars or know of other famous people or events in history - even recent, and generally lack the ability to follow or create a train of logic or keep a conversation going without reverting to some reality TV show. And many in my place wonder why I don't want to socialise with them. But I digress....

[Rooster-UK]

Please keep it civil.

 

All of the posters, so far, on this thread, have been here long enough to know the forum rules.

 

In case anyone's memory is failing them, see here......

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forum-rules-please-read/

 

Thank you for your co-operation.

[noomill060]

Im English and live in N.Ireland, can I join in?

[noomill060]

What I think gyzmo is refering to is part of a long term reconciliation plan suggest by the heads of a body sey ip to manage the endgame of the peace process. The heads of this body are

 

Lord Robin Eames - former Archbishop of Armagh (Anglican and a very nice chap. Leader of all Anglicans in Ireland for over 20 years of the civil war)

 

Seamus Heaney- poet, intellectual and academic Catholic and a very nice chap.

 

One of their recomendations was to give the next of kin of those who died in the civil war a gift of £12000 to "recognise their loss"

 

This applies equally to those murdered by terrorists (IRA or Loyalists), thise terrorists killed by the Army or Police and those terrorists who managed to blow themselves up by mistake.

 

Its has caused a lot of anger over here as well.

[noomill060]

For instance:

 

The next of kin of the three person IRA active service unit shot by the SAS on their way to car bomb a parade in Gibraltar in March 1988 would be given £12000 each, just as the parents of 3 year old Jonathan Ball and 12 year old Tom Parry both murdered by an IRA bomb in Warrington in 1993.

 

BBC ON THIS DAY | 30 | 1988: 'SAS killed lawfully' - Gibraltar jury

 

BBC Inside Out - Warrington Bomb, 10 years on

 

SAS Ambush - Loughgall

 

The cancer of N.Irelands insanity spread across Europe fdrom time to time with a atacks on army bases in Germany. As I remember even a few NI related IRA murders happened in Australia.

Edited January 30, 2009 by noomill060

[Gilbert_O'Sullivan]

I feel the agony of human loss during The Troubles far outweighs a dispute about an amount of monies paid to either side considering peace has been achieved in such a troubled land.

 

And £12,000 is an amount considered a reflection of loss, not the price of a life on either side.

 

This tactic has been used before and it encourages ALL to recognise that ALL life is sacred, even your enemy, and has been highly effective.

 

I'd much prefer this money to reconcile a land for eternal peace than put it toward some fatcat bank that's for sure.

[noomill060]

The problem is the issue of the money has raked over coals and stirred up a hornets nest. Money cannot bring anyone back, nor can it compensate for loss.

 

It was a naive but well meaning gesture- recognition given when at the time, very little support was given to victims really -another bomb in Belfast, another coalman shot on the way to work on Newry, another Army Landrover blown up by a homemade land mine in South Armagh- the TV news every othe night for 30 years, the names forgotten before the weatherman popped up with news of tomorrow's rain.

 

What has infuriated the families of the long forgotten victims is that the familes of those responsible for these and similar crimes who finally met their own death at the hands of security forces or who got blown up by their own bombs would benefit from the crimes of their long dead relatives.

 

On reflection, it was a mistake to even think of making a cash payment to all who died in the civil war.

 

Are the passengers and hijackers of the 9/11 to be considered in an equal manner?

[noomill060]

"The Troubles" was a typical BBC Northern Ireland understatement, intended to make it sound like a bit of a riot after a football match at the other end of the country.

 

It was a low intensity civil war, quietly supported by the Soviet Union, Iran and Libya with no quarter given by either side, just about held to "acceptable" levels by 25,000 army personel.

 

Oh the stories I could tell you.

 

Thank fk its over

Edited January 31, 2009 by noomill060

[noomill060]

Still, most of the bailiffs got shot and have never been replaced so it wasnt a complete waste then. ;-)

 

(Black Ulster humour, BTW)

Edited January 31, 2009 by noomill060

[charleyfarley]

It was clearly an attempt along the lines of the Truth and Reconciliation hearings that were held so successfully in South Africa to draw a line under what were awful times, and to try and move on.....................but if the earlier posts on here are anything to go by, the atmosphere doesn't seem quite ready for that sort of move.

 

 

 

just an observation

[caro]

As an English confirmed C of E person, of Scottish ancestry, whose clan originated in Ireland, married to a non-practicing Catholic man of Irish decent, I would like to echo the sentiments of Gilbert O'Sullivan, that all life is sacred.

 

Have the families, for example, of those who died in the hunger strikes, suffered any less a loss than innocent victims families? Did their children deserve to be brought up without fathers. Their children should not be punished for their fathers sins.

 

It's way past the time when these issues were put behind us and we all learned to live together. It's a shame that this has brought ill feeling back to the surface.

Edited January 31, 2009 by caro

[noomill060]

"Have the families, for example, of those who died in the hunger strikes, suffered any less a loss than innocent victims families?"

 

No

 

 

Did the victims of those hunger strikers have any choice in whether they lived or died?

 

No. They were murdered.

 

Did the hunger strikers have a choice to live or die?

 

Yes. They chose to commit suicide and in doing so deprived their own families, who I might add supported them in their actions at the time, bizarrely transfering the responsibility for the suicide onto someone else.

[gyzmo]

I think the point here is that the terrorists and their families - those who knowingly engaged in violence, who consciously murdered and killed innocent people are being given cash - and taxpayer's cash at that. It is completely unjustifiable.

 

And just on this point of terrorism, I cannot help but think of Bush's "war on terror" and the hysteria (government invented, media led) that has ensued. Everything now is down to terrorsim. If there's a crash, explosion or even a natural disaster - oh it's terrorism - or at least it can be confirmed that it hasn't been ruled out and the UK is on a high state of alert!

 

Soooo.. we have, err, one attack in London and a couple of threats elsewhere in the country and it's red alerts and pandemonium. Yet I distinctly remember in he 80s hardly a week went by without some actual bomb being found, but none of the hysteria we see now.

 

I suspect 1984 is more of a reality than we take it to be.

 

And it was not "the troubles" - it was terrorsim.

[noomill060]

Yes gyzmo, the "War on Terror" has been used as an excuse to bring in all the draconian serviellance powers and the authorities now have at their disposal. RIPA, bailiff powers etc.

 

gyzmo- you may be interested in this if have havent seen it already.

 

YouTube - Terror Storm - Final Cut (part 1/14)

 

 

 

BBC NEWS | Northern Ireland | Car bomb found in security alert

 

 

A 300lb abandoned car bomb in a village 20 miles away from I'm sitting, was defused this afternoon. The Army has been working on it for the last 5 days.

 

Kept that one quiet didn't they? I'd heard a rumour of some incident here, but even just 20 miles away I had no idea what it was.

 

But hey, its just Northern Ireland isnt it?

 

Lets see if this even makes the national evening news.

 

They would be running about like big girls blouses, blaming all and sundry, calling for even more powers if this had happened anywhere else.

Edited January 31, 2009 by noomill060

[noomill060]

BTW, I nearly got arrested for taking a pic of the superb original Edwardian tea rooms at Manchester Victoria last year!

[gyzmo]

BTW, I nearly got arrested for taking a pic of the superb original Edwardian tea rooms at Manchester Victoria last year!

 

That was probably because you spent a minute too long in the oft frequented toilets:D

 

(PS - I am not suggesting that you are gay (nor do I care) or that you engage in activities that outrage public decency (not that I care on that either) - just my warped sense of humour!)

[Thailand]

*confesses to being a tad tipsy*

 

I think it's great that NI (relevant or not) doesn't has bailiffs. I believe in them, though not private ones.... and I'm amused as to why they don't exist there.

 

Just as much as the first parking ticket 'official' was stuck in a wheely bin a rolled down one of Valetta's and Gozo's hilly terrain.

 

The gozo one died, and another was shot in cold blood in Valetta.

 

I'm not agreeing with it (out loud) but why do we UK citizens put up with it?

 

Ftr, Malta still has parking officers (state revenue collectors) But at least they get paid danger money!

[gyzmo]

Thinking about it, I've nearly got myself SHOT twice in my life due to piccephilia.

 

Once in Spain at about 9 years old, I wanted to take a snap of a copper in the hotel over there because, WOW! he was carrying a rifle! He started muttering something, I thought it was OK, pointed my camera at him and then he got his rifle off his shoulder and started to aim at me! I tell you, my undies were brown that day - they weren't beforehand and it wasnt through drinking the water.....

 

The other was my first (solo) visit to London about 12 years ago. I decided to spend some time mooching about all the royal bits and ended up at Clarence House (I think it was - may have been another one). I walked down a lane and saw a small road going along the rear of the building. Intrigued (there were a few horsies and a couple of limos about - I'm easily pleased) and totally taken aback by my first visit to London and all by myself, gobsmacked by the immensity of the place and in total awe, I proceeded down the small lane in search of a good piccie or two. Well, did I not spot the little hut which I shortly realised housed an armed member of Her Maj's Constabulary? Nay I didn't.

 

I remember someone saying "stop", which I sort of did, but then definitely did when I heard loud and clear in no unequivocal terms "YOU THERE STOP NOW!". I turned round and there was one of London's finest with hand on gun now half out it's holster.

 

Thankfully he realised that I had simply wondered there by mistake (It was only a couple of steps) and we eventually started chatting. After a minute or so, he reluctantly agreed, after having a quick look round, to take my photo in the lane I was walking down! "I could get shot for this" he said. Yeah mate - I nearly did! Goes to show though Just how good our police can be and how times have changed.

[noomill060]

That was probably because you spent a minute too long in the oft frequented toilets:D

 

(PS - I am not suggesting that you are gay (nor do I care) or that you engage in activities that outrage public decency (not that I care on that either) - just my warped sense of humour!)

 

 

[noomill060]

thailand, in case youre wondering what happened to NI bailifs-

 

As representatives of the British state, the IRA considered them to be legitimate targets and many were shot on sight.

 

As a bullet in the brain trumps a muppet with a removal van, the bailiff system of debt enforcement collapsed and was replaced by a more civilised system which doesnt involve any contact. Its all done through the Court.