Any Other Jobseekers Out There?

[Surfer01]

now I'm not racist and I dont judge, but I think some rules about non british nationals taking jobs are in order, considering the current employment situation, could you imagine what would happen if 2 million brits moved to france and took up employment??

 

I am a foreigner having been born in South Africa, but my father is British, my grandfather and all his forefathers were British. I served in a British regiment and swore allegiance to the Queen in the 60's. My wife is Welsh, so where do you draw the line. The cost of taking out a British citizenship today is in the vicinity of about £750!

I have been here for 17 years and this is the first time I have had to claim the dole. There are many of us of British descent from Africa and elsewhere who feel that in essence they are British but were never born in Britain.

[WOOD73]

Its all very well people saying those made redundant in a recession should get higher benefits, what happens in 2 years when those who said this are still unemployed? will they be happy to accept lower benefits or should this higher amount carry on? because I bet there are people who were made redundant in the last recession who are still unemployed!

 

What needs to happen, is a program to weed out those who genuinely want to work and give them the help they need, instead of handing over hundreds of pounds to individuals to buy drugs! and all the do gooders in the world can say it was the recession or whatever that turned them to drugs, but everyone has a choice, and I know a lot of people who have been through some stuff, but they chose not to take drugs.

 

These people should not be allowed to take opportunity out of the pockets of honest hardworking people, and I for one, would rather have help to get into work than more benefits to encourage me to stay on the dole!

[WOOD73]

surfer, I apologise for not making it clearer, but I was refering to the influx of eastern european's we are seeing coming here now.

[godpikachu]

the so called "new deal" system needs completly replacing with something that is relevant and actually geared towards finding people work, as opposed to its current status of being a system based around teaching people how to stay out of work by not providing them with any help or guidance.

 

the "new deal" system is based on the old "restart" system, except that for new deal it doesnt kick in until you have been unemployed for 18 months (over 25s, 18-21 its 6 months, 22-24 arent ellegable for new deal)

 

i was put on the new deal when i was 19, and it was the biggest waste of time ever.

 

firstly, i was told i had to attend a "program centre", which i didnt mind as there was one run from the village hall by the jobcentre itself, but no, i had to attend one of two speific ones, both requiring 2 bus journeys to get there.

they would refund my bus fare for getting from town to the place, but not for getting to town itself from home.

 

the first day was our "induction", which was the usual crap of introducing yourself, pretending to be trees, talking about what you wanted etc, ie, a complete waste of time, all that came of it was that me and a few others ended up in the pub for drinks afterwards.

 

the second day we were given a "1-2-1" with our personal new deal advisor, which was a different advisor from our other personal advisor that i would see at the dole.

my advisor asked to see a copy of my CV, ad while she was perusing that, she told me to look at the list of available training courses, which went something like this...

 

Basic english

Basic maths

Basic PC use

Basic MS word

Basic MS excel

Letter writing

Interview skills

 

i ended up asking about the interview skills, which my advisor said they werent running this year, but if i wanted a certificate for it she would print me one out...

 

once the induction day and interview day were out of the way, that was pretty much it, all we had to do was attend the place every wednesday and thursday (my signing day was every friday at that point, something which they still do today which i fail to see the point of, its proabaly a relic of the old restart program that they forgot to remove when they did away with the program centres.) , for 15 weeks, during which time no effort was made to offer us any training courses, any college courses or indeed any assistance whatsoever, all that was made available to us was last weeks newspapers (donated by the newsagent next door) and a woman on the front desk who reminded us that we had 15 weeks to find a job otherwise our dole money would be stopped. she was just the receptionist who you had to sign in with and who gave you your bus fare back when she could be bothered with it, nothing whatsoever to do with the dole office or anything.

 

As far as i am aware, these program centres/restart schemes have all ut been done away with, unsurprisingly because they did very little to assist people in getting back to work. i know the one i went to went years ago, and he building it used to occupy is now an amusment arcade.

The idea behind a restart program is sound, its just a shame that in practice its hampered by the jobcentres uncaring attitude, what they should do is after you have been signing on for 6 months you should have to attend one of these on a weekly basis, and where training courses for recognised qualifications are run, and where the certificates you recieve are proper certificates, not just something knocked up in 10 minutes using MS publisher that have llittle more value than a piece of toilet paper. In fact with some qualifications, id say a piece of toilet paper is probably more useful to you.

 

At the moment, i know that Reed run something in conjunction with the dole office where if you have been signing on for 18 months or more, they do something simarlar to the old restart program, where people can get SIA badges, or go on free college courses etc, although your dole stops and you are paid by cheque from Reed when you attend on your signing day.

 

why this has to be 18 months is beyond me, why it cant be 6 months i dont know, because then that would be something more useful and would actually HELP people back into work, rather than hindering them by forcing people to sign on for 18 months before they become elligable for help.

 

Many places i have contacted to apply for work have said stuff to me like:-

 

"youve not had a consistant work history for the past 2 years"

"youve been out of work for too long"

"you dont have any recent work experience"

 

 

one thing i would really like to see is employment agencies being banned, as they dont provide much in the way of good, long term employment, and, as a temp worker you dont have any job security or equal rights on a par with other employees.

 

A friend of mine said to me yesterday that he has had to pack his job in becuse the promised wage increase he had from the agency hasnt materialised after he had been working somewhere through them for 6 months, he simply cannot afford to carry on working there, despite them stating when he started that after completing his 3 month probationary period, he was guaranteed a permenant job and a wage increase from £14,000 to £19,000, they state that they made no such promise and that he would have to continue working for the £14,000 rate on a "permatemp" basis, so, he is back doing voluntary work and claiming housing benefit, jobseekers allowance and council tax benefit, and as well as looking for another job with decent wages and no lies, he is also looking into retraining through college to do something else with his life.

[ajax95]

one thing i would really like to see is employment agencies being banned, as they dont provide much in the way of good, long term employment, and, as a temp worker you dont have any job security or equal rights on a par with other employees.

 

They've got a lot of faults, but rather that than the even more unreliable vacanies at the job centre (applied for a job advertised at mine today, only to be told the vacancy had been filled two weeks ago when I rang the company concerned).

 

Agencies are like any other middle-man, and if people had a better idea of who were the good ones or at least the ones you shouldn't touch with a bargepole that would be a start!

 

the so called "new deal" system needs completly replacing with something that is relevant and actually geared towards finding people work, as opposed to its current status of being a system based around teaching people how to stay out of work by not providing them with any help or guidance.

 

The New Deal and the way that the Job Centre is geared towards people isn't much good. There's a lot of people working at the Job Centre who don't seem to have much knowledge of what people are up against, and definitely a fair few who are behind the times

 

And to touch on something else you said, it certainly wouldn't hurt the DWP to divert some money into giving people some proper help.

 

All the stuff you were never taught at school, such as how to fill in application forms, writing a CV that'll at least get you an interview if nothing else, how to convince interviewers you know what you're doing, give you training that'll be of some use to you at work, the best ways to use sites like monster, and people who are wiling to give you a bit of motivation and guidance when you need it! As you say, a system that is actually geared to help people find work instead of the current shambles. Preferably staffed with people who know what they're talking about.

 

Actually, all the things that Job Club and Restart were supposedly meant to do but didn't.

Edited February 4, 2009 by ajax95
typo

[Surfer01]

surfer, I apologise for not making it clearer, but I was refering to the influx of eastern european's we are seeing coming here now.

No need to apologise as I understood what you were trying to say but I was just making a point that somewhere there is a line to draw. The question is where do you draw this line on immigration? Perhaps only people with a British connection or descent born outside the country could be allowed in to live but those who have no connection should be restricted.

[389shell]

The question is where do you draw this line on immigration?

 

Brown sandles - Check

White socks - Check

 

That's all you need really, you can pick anyone who has been here too long a mile off abroad lol!

[godpikachu]

the simple answer on immigration, specifically economic migrants, is thus:-

 

Do you hold british citizenship?

 

If the answer to this is not yes, then dont let the door hit your ass as you reboard the plane to go straight back to wherever you came from.

 

In addition, i have been most amused by the recent "wildcat" strikes which have been going off around the country, and applauded the solidarity shown by other workers in different sectors in support of the protest against foreign workers.

 

I also liked how the government decided that it was going to make a series of toothless threats against the protestors in an effort to force them back to work.

 

British jobs are for british workers....period, sod the EU directives, its high time we started looking after our own first and paid no attention to propping up the economies of eastern europe.

[ajax95]

On on past experience, it should bottom out in about late 2010, that is when people stop losing their jobs. Early 2011 it will start to pick up very slowly but nothing to get excited about. Mid to late 2012 things will start to look better but definitley far from rosy. To fully recover you are looking at about 2014/15.

 

That's going to be a lot of people completely screwed then

 

By the way, signed on this morning. The pillock dealing with me asked to look at my job search record, and I had to stop myself from laughing when I had to explain to her what monster was...

Edited February 6, 2009 by ajax95
some extra info

[godpikachu]

well, i went to sign on yesterday and the monkey at the dole told me that apparently the jobcentre "no longer considers visiting employment agencies as looking for work" (???!!???), but then after i had signed on, she gave me a leaflet containing web addresses and telephone numbers for all the local agencies, plus som job search websites (all of which contain the majority of agency jobs)

 

i like the consistancy there, well thought out, methodical,practical, and a load of steaming bull ****!

[ajax95]

well, i went to sign on yesterday and the monkey at the dole told me that apparently the jobcentre "no longer considers visiting employment agencies as looking for work" (???!!???), but then after i had signed on, she gave me a leaflet containing web addresses and telephone numbers for all the local agencies, plus som job search websites (all of which contain the majority of agency jobs)

 

As it happens, my job centre has visiting/ringing agencies as part of my agreement!

 

i like the consistancy there, well thought out, methodical,practical, and a load of steaming bull ****!

 

They've been like that ever since the first time I signed on 20 years ago

[godpikachu]

thing is though, i remember the first time i had to sign on way back in 1998, the dole office went out of their way to help me get back into work (admittedly i was 18 at the time).

I was offered free training courses, free college courses, assistance with applying for stuff, a personalised job search whenever I wanted one, help and guidance on interview techniques.

 

but now all i seem to get off them is grief and ignorance. Its like the first time i was made redundant in 2000, (age 20), all of this "help" seemed to vanish, and instead be replaced by ignorant, poorly trained jobcentre advisors, worthless job club things, ill conceived (and worthless) training courses, college fees, all served with a side order of ignorance and arrogance in a rich apathetic sauce.

 

what went wrong??

[ajax95]

I think there's loads of us pondering that one.

 

Not everybody who works at the Job Centre is poorly trained or a complete dumbass, but unfortunately there's a lot of them that are programmed to think all their job entails is "move as many people through here as possible, regardless of their requirements."

 

I've come across both types over the years, and until the Job Centre is given a proper shake up it's not gonna change

[godpikachu]

well, to be fair there isnt much motivation for jobcentre employees to take much pride in their work.

One thing i found out when i applied for a job working in the offices at the jobcentre (a couple of years back) was that jobcentre employees are only employed on a 12 week basis (dunno wether this is still the case).

Basically, you have a job for 12 weeks, then they decide wether to renew you for another 12 weeks and so on etc etc.

 

its basically like being a "permatemp" if thats what they are still doing, as they probably wont get any kind of fringe benefits from working there (pension, health scheme etc), and due to the poor level of training they get, they are unable to fully help people that come into see them, which is just as frustrating for the customer as it is for the advisor.

[ajax95]

One thing i found out when i applied for a job working in the offices at the jobcentre (a couple of years back) was that jobcentre employees are only employed on a 12 week basis (dunno wether this is still the case).

Basically, you have a job for 12 weeks, then they decide wether to renew you for another 12 weeks and so on etc etc.

 

Sounds like a lot of Civil Service jiggery-pokery here.

 

I was an agency permatemp with DEFRA for four years (2002-2006), there were also a load of folks who'd be taken on as a casual which meant you did 51 weeks then you had to leave regardless of how good or how bad you were, and hardly any of the perks that the proper permanent staff get.

 

I'm sure there's a lot of government departements who pull similar strokes

Edited February 6, 2009 by ajax95
typo and some amendments

[godpikachu]

well, all it boils down to in the end is money, good old fashioned lust for £££.

 

you dont have to pay liability insurance temp workers, plus if theyre only classed as temp then theres no pensions to pay, no medical benefits, no stock options, hell, some places wont even provide temps with uniforms or safety equipment.

hell, if you employ foreign workers you dont even have to pay minimum wage, income tax or NI contributions for them.

 

bloody loopholes!, youd think state institutions would be setting an example, well, they are in a fashion, they are setting a good example of how to exploit loopholes and do everything on the cheap.

[ajax95]

bloody loopholes!, youd think state institutions would be setting an example, well, they are in a fashion, they are setting a good example of how to exploit loopholes and do everything on the cheap.

 

I'd write to my MP about it if he wasn't such a f***wit

Edited February 6, 2009 by ajax95
yet another bloody typo

[godpikachu]

lol, yeah, and whats he gonna do about it?...ooh, wait, erm...oh yeah, claim a big fat salary out of taxpayers money and probably get caught having kinky sex with an inexpensive romainian prostitute while wearing stockings and suspenders and having a cucumber stuffed up his ass.

[ajax95]

allegedly... Some of them just commit vanilla-style adultery

 

Anyhow, getting back to the subject and I know I've touched on this already, but it would be far better to train Job Centre staff so they could provide their "customers" with some proper help, rather than the situation there is now.

 

And getting back to another of my points, the agencies have their faults, but in fairness to the ones I'm with at the moment, they've at least had the decency to at least offer a bit of encouragement.

 

Obviously, I'd rather have a job, but rather that than the conflicting messages you get from the Job Centre

[godpikachu]

allegedly... Some of them just commit vanilla-style adultery

 

lol, only the back benchers, cabinet members and other higher echelons have to give an example to their lessers

 

Anyhow, getting back to the subject and I know I've touched on this already, but it would be far better to train Job Centre staff so they could provide their "customers" with some proper help, rather than the situation there is now.

 

yeah, a good start would be giving them full training on all the benefits etc you can claim plus letting them know and keeping them up to date on available training courses etc.

as far as i am concerned, the jobcentre should be a "one stop shop" for all benefits, training courses etc. I should be able to make an appointment to see an advisor at any time, and when i see said advisor they should be able to answer my questions immediatley.

 

And getting back to another of my points, the agencies have their faults, but in fairness to the ones I'm with at the moment, they've at least had the decency to at least offer a bit of encouragement.

 

lol, you can have all the encouragment in the world and still be penniless.

none of the agencies i am registered with have lifted a finger to help me find work, and every time i ring them i just get blanked, so ive just stopped wasting money on phonecalls to them.

some of them have made it quite clear that they have no intention of helping me so why bother banging my head against a brick wall, and as a general rule the staff are all haughty and ignorant, and tend to treat me like something they scraped off their shoe.

 

sod em, they wont make any commission off me.

 

Obviously, I'd rather have a job, but rather that than the conflicting messages you get from the Job Centre

 

yeah, i would like a job, any job, but no one seems to be interested at the moment, the only "help" i ever seem to get is being offered training courses that i cant afford, and sycophanitc and useless advice from agency employees.

[ajax95]

some of them have made it quite clear that they have no intention of helping me so why bother banging my head against a brick wall, and as a general rule the staff are all haughty and ignorant, and tend to treat me like something they scraped off their shoe.

 

sod em, they wont make any commission off me.

 

Tut Tut! They ain't gonna make much commission doing that.

 

Although, if that's their attitude, then you've done the right thing! Name and shame I'd say

 

yeah, i would like a job, any job, but no one seems to be interested at the moment, the only "help" i ever seem to get is being offered training courses that i cant afford, and sycophanitc and useless advice from agency employees.

 

I feel like no-one's interested at times, and even though I've stuck up for agencies a bit, I still take what they say with a pinch of salt.

 

I see where you're coming from with training courses. I've been offered them at times when it just wasn't an option financially, and if they offer concessions on the course when you're unemployed it can still be a big chunk out of your JSA. Not good

[Surfer01]

Jobcentre job are only there to sign you on and nothing else. You then need to see an adviser if you want to discuss job possibilities. The manager of our local job centre has stated in the paper that there has not been a huge increase in jobseekers over the past year as it has only doubled from 468 to just over 900??? In addition, she stated that ther are plenty of jobs availible in the area.

I have to see an adviser at my next sign on and I have cut the article from the paper and will be asking the adviser to demonstrate where these jobs are that their boss says are readily available? If you are into care and support there are loads, but that is a job that not many of us could do.

[ajax95]

The manager of our local job centre has stated in the paper that there has not been a huge increase in jobseekers over the past year as it has only doubled from 468 to just over 900??? In addition, she stated that ther are plenty of jobs availible in the area.

I have to see an adviser at my next sign on and I have cut the article from the paper and will be asking the adviser to demonstrate where these jobs are that their boss says are readily available?

 

mmm, do let us know what happens. I'd love to know exactly where these people get their information from and who the hell is training them. Then again, it's all too easy to say there are jobs available when yours is relatively safe

[WOOD73]

I've been signing on since mid dec, so only about 6-8 weeks, on the 12th I have to go to some group thing in the local methodist church, it says on the letter if I fail to attend I will lose 2 weeks benefit!

when I sign on I mention the lack of jobs on their computers every time, and they agree, one even said, dont know why we have the afternoon 10min appointments anymore, because we are just looking at blank jobsearch screens.

So the idea of this group meeting I think is to keep one of their wallers in a job, well they'll have to earn their money with me there, cos I'm going for every bit of financial help that's available, and I'm going to bring up a few issues that are putting me off trying to help myself, like stopping benefits if I go to college.

[ajax95]

When I sign on I mention the lack of jobs on their computers every time, and they agree, one even said, dont know why we have the afternoon 10min appointments anymore, because we are just looking at blank jobsearch screens.

 

When I signed on Friday, my adviser showed me 3 jobs that came up on her screen, all of them were jobs that I'd already applied for (one of them was on hold because of the amount of CVs they received was more than they could handle)

 

I've been signing on since mid dec, so only about 6-8 weeks, on the 12th I have to go to some group thing in the local methodist church, it says on the letter if I fail to attend I will lose 2 weeks benefit!

 

... the idea of this group meeting I think is to keep one of their wallers in a job, well they'll have to earn their money with me there, cos I'm going for every bit of financial help that's available, and I'm going to bring up a few issues that are putting me off trying to help myself, like stopping benefits if I go to college.

 

I think you're probably right on this one. It's been 15 years since I've had to go to one of these. Good luck and Give 'em hell!