mbna loan with ppi **OUT OF COURT SETTLEMENT**

[sharpgun]

ok filed my n1 form nearly two wweks ago , but got no information through the post. So I rang the court to ask where the forms were. They informed me that they had sent them the following day so must have got lost in post.They then informed me that mbna had replied with the intention to defend, My question is - is this the norm

[steven4064]

They always say they are going to defend. THat is so not the same as actually defending

[sharpgun]

please foregive me but please explain? do you mean that they wont file a defence.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Sharpgun!

 

please foregive me but please explain? do you mean that they wont file a defence.

I think what Steven means is MBNA always say they will Defend, as that is just their standard knee-jerk reaction.

 

They'll always say they'll Defend as a matter of policy, the simple reason being because they know it will put off a certain percentage of PPI Claimants.

 

However, if you keep going, then they will move down to the second point on their MBNA PPI Refund Avoidance Check List, which will probably be some sort of obfuscation letter to try and baffle you with a load of complex sounding bull.

 

The further you go with your PPI Claim, the further down their check list they will go, until the point when they will have to make the real decision whether to Defend or not.

 

...even then, they may have additional options, such as:

 

• Issue a throwaway Defence in the hope of putting off the Claimant.
  
• Pretend we'll turn up at Court.
  
• Not bother to turn up at Court and pay the PPI and Court Costs, or...
  
• Defend.
  

Note that the last option on their list will be to actually Defend, so the MBNA will work their way down as many other options as they can before getting to that one...anything to delay paying out, and anything to try and put off a timid Claimant.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[sharpgun]

thank you, now i understand

[sharpgun]

i will keep u posted

[steven4064]

What you have to remember is that, the way these idiots behave, a typical court case willl cost them someting up to £10k in legal fees so it is a matter of simple arithmetic to decide what they ought to do. THe stupid thing is that they often spend more than half that in just messing about pretending they ar being serious about the case and then settle anyway.

[sharpgun]

ok recieved letter from court to confirm mbna wish to defend the full claim and that they have 28 days to reply

[sharpgun]

ok heres the defence, spent a couple of hours typing it in.Need help big time

Defence

1. It is denied that any claim is disclosed in the claimants P.O.C. The remainder of this defence is strictly without prejudice to that contention. The defendant reserves the right to make a request for further information and to amend the defence as appropriate on receipt of further particulars.

2. During the application process for a personal loan facility,MBNA will offer the applicant the opportunity to take advantage of its PPI.

3. In Oct 2001 Mr XXX contacted mbna by telephone to apply for a personal loan,Following an explanation of the benefits and the obligation of PPI, he indicated that if the application was approved he wished the loan amount to be afforded the protection of PPi and a premium charged.

4. Once the application was approved in Oct 2001 Mr XXXX was sent a loan agreement detailing the t&C of the loan amount and the PPi. This pack included the PPI pre contractual information (including the PPi policy document).which they have no copy of Mr XXXX at this point had the opportunity to not proceed with either the loan or the optional PPI.Mr XXXX signed the agreemnent on 17th Oct 2001 indicating his intention to proceed with the loan and also confirmed his decision to protect the account by taking out the optional PPI. The loan agreement clearly states the insurance advance and the total charge for credit for insurance and the loan and the total amount for you pay for insurance loan. A copy of the loan agreement at schedule 1 PT1. The policy documents sent by the defendant enable a customer to fully understand the product a provide a customer with a 30 day cooling off period whereby they may, if deemed appropriate, cancel their request. It is averred that the claimant did not cancel the policy within the cooling off period.

5. The account was opened on or around23 Oct 2001and the sum£15000 was paid to the claimant.

6. The PPi policy t&cs are comprehensive and detail the effect of PPI and its implications extensively. Didnt send a copy with the sar Moreover, the claimant is directed to read them carefully on the first page of the document. It is therefore averred that the claimant had ample opportunity to understand the effect and implications of the policy before deciding whether or not to add it to the account.

7. The latest date on which any claim for an alleged mis- selling the PPi was 23 rd Oct 2007.There fore the claim is out of time. There is no reason why the court should exercise its discretion to extend time under section 32a of the limitations act 1980.

8. The defendant denies it made any mistake nor that the policy was inappropriate. The defendant denies the spurious allegations that it has concealed the truth about the policy or has committed fraud and puts the claimant to strict proof as to evidence these allegations.

9. Without prejudice to its limitation defence, the defendant denies that the claimant was induced into entering the agreement by a representative alleging the PPi was mandatory. This is not the case as the insurance was clearly optional from the contents of the telephone conversation, ( they have a recording?) the references within the terms of the credit agreement at section 8. The agreement is attached is attached to schedule pt2.The claimant is put to strict proof as to this allegation.

10. The defendant denies the PPi had to be purchased with the defendant, it does admit that the defendants product can only be directly protected by the one ins urer, but it remains an optional product that can clearly be protected indirectly elsewhere. The claimant is put to strict proof as to this allegation

11. The defendant denies that it has made false representations and acted negligently towards the claimant. The claimant is put to strict proof as to the allegations

12. MBNA denies that the policy was mis-sold. The defendant denies that the PPI was sold as a result of pressure and misleading advice by the defendant. The defendant did not provide advice in respect of the claimant of the claimants decision to take out PPI. The defendant sold the PPI on a wholly non advised basis, as such the defendant is struggling to understand how this aspect of the claim is relevant to the claimants circumstances. In any event the defendant will put the claimant to strict proof as to this allegation.

13. The defendant denies that the claimant was not entitled to claim under the policy because he was self employed ,and puts the claimant to strict proof as to evidence these allegations. Self employed people are covered in instances under the policy.

14. The defendant denies that it has acted in breach of section 13 of the supply of goods and services act 1982 and puts the claimant to strict proof of this allegation. Furthermore,the defendant denies in any event that it has provided any such service that would be afforded the protection of this statute

15. The defendant denies the claimants allegations that he has suffered loss and damage by the defendants actions .Furthermore, it denies it has acted in a negligent manner in relation to any of its conduct with the claimant or that it has breached any statutory duty owed to the claimant. The defendant puts the claimant to strict proof as to the alleged loss or damage.

16. The defendant denies that an unfair relationship existed and puts the claimant to strict proof as to this allegation.

17. The defendant is struggling to understand how the claimant has reached the amount sought at £4548.20 plus £3409.73 giving a claim value of £7957.93. The total amount of the insurance claim was in fact £3628.20 they charged me interest on the ppi thats where the figures comes from

18. The defendant is struggling to understand the relevance of FSA principles of business to the facts of these POC

19. The defendant denies the claimants spurious allegations that he is entitled to damages for breaches od section 2 of the misrepresentation act 1967 and puts the claimant to strict proof as to evidence this allegation.

20. Insofar as any allegation or matter in the POC is not expressly addressed above or any allegation is denied then Mr XXXX is requested is requested to prove each and every element of such allegation or matter.

21. The defendant avers that the claimant has no proof to support the allegations made and therefore has no cause of action. The POC do not make sense and no detail and do not make any basis for a claim .It is for this reason that the defendant would invite the court to exercise its power to strike out this claim under the civil procedure rules,CPR3.4, as disclosing no reasonable grounds and that it is an abuse of the courts process.

[sharpgun]

what happens next

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Sharpgun!

 

Others will help on the handling of this from a legal point of view.

 

Below is a few additional points you may be able to use if you re-draft your POC and/or add to it. Edit as needed to fit your own circumstances:

 

XXX. The Defendant is now quite convinced that I was mis-sold this PPI policy for the following reasons:

 

(a) Underwriting a Policy of Insurance: the Claimant obviously made no attempt to consider my needs before offering me this Loan with PPI. Nor were any attempts made to consider my needs on the occasion when the details of the loan were discussed. The Claimant’s employees failed to check my personal circumstances at the time of the sale, which they were under an obligation to do when underwriting a Policy of Insurance. If they had done so, they would have quickly realised that the PPI policy was wholly useless to me. At no time was any attempt made to ascertain if the product provided was fit for purpose, suitable for my needs or if indeed it was required at all.

 

(b) Alternative Insurance Cover: the Claimant’s Sales Advisor did not ask me if I had any alternative arrangements for insurance cover.

 

© Significant Policy Exclusions: I was most definitely not informed that the PPI policies could contain certain exclusions which could affect me and my ability to claim on the policies if I should need to. Additionally I was never told that Pre Existing Medical Conditions could invalidate my policy and I was never asked if I had any Pre Existing Medical Conditions. I now believe that I would have been excluded from Policy Cover by virtue of at least one of the my existing conditions.

 

(d) Widespread PPI Mis-Selling: I have since become aware of the widespread mis- selling of PPI by many financial institutions, following recent media coverage and recent OFT and FSA investigations regarding the mis-selling of PPI. I believe this is borne out by the points raised above. I am also aware that the question of PPI cover is the subject of an ongoing inquiry by the Competition Commissioner.

 

(e) Wholly Inappropriate PPI Selling Bonuses: I also now understand that some employees are paid higher bonuses if they get prospective Consumers to take out PPI with loans. How can the best interests of the customer possibly be met, if there is a clear conflict of interest between their responsibilities to me, and the drive of their employees to sell PPI whether it is suitable or not in order to receive bonuses?

 

(f) True Nature of Single Premium PPI Not Explained: No explanation was forthcoming from any advisor on any occasion on the full extent of single premium PPI policies, or the fact that they would offer little or no refund if the loan was settled early or if the insurance was cancelled. There was also no explanation that the cost of the PPI premium would be added to the total cost of credit and interest added for the full term of the agreement. I believe this practice is unlawful. I now believe that the single premium PPI policies attached to loan accounts were extremely unfair, totally unreasonable and of very limited protection value. I am therefore requesting a full refund of all costs including the full single PPI premium that has been paid, plus any interest added to this premium if this can be established.

 

Now might be a good time to hit them with a CPR 18 request to get a copy of any recordings they have...or not as the case may be!

 

Cheers,

BRW

[sharpgun]

how do i do a cpr18 request i thought they had to give this with a sar and they obviuosly have a copy of the ppi policy i have never seen one

[sharpgun]

bump

[sharpgun]

hello, hello,

in need of some help please i am in unknown territory

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Sharpgun!

 

This may help in terms of CPR 18:

 

CPR 18

 

In effect, CPR 18 is similar to a SAR but you are entitled to a response in a much shorter time scale! But, the main aim is to ask them for anything you specifically need to help your case.

 

CPR 18 is important if they have either failed to respond to a SAR (in which case report them to the ICO straight away), or have deliberately withheld Data from a SAR (in which case report them anyway to the ICO).

 

One area you must go back over, is the issue of the Agreement itself. At that time, MBNA were notorious for making poop Loan Agreements with single premium PPI. They usually, if not always, failed to set the Agreements out correctly. They were multiple Agreements and yet they combined both Loan and PPI into a single Monthly Repayment. It's therefore highly likely that the Agreement itself may be seriously flawed, which may give you the option of asking them for more than just the PPI back, i.e. if they had no Right to charge interest.

 

The CAG s18 Thread link has already been Posted, but here it is again to help:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/171037-multiple-agreements-falling-within.html#post1845581

 

It's quite possible, therefore, that the Agreememt itself is flawed, and you may have other issues to hit them with.

 

All I can suggest is you get reading straight away, and get a handle on the issues ASAP. The clock is already ticking, as I gather your Claim is now in and MBNA have submitted a Defence. It's important that you get a firm handle on the issues this week, and then plan what to do next once you have covered CPR 18 and also have considered the Agreement in terms of s18.

 

The CPR 18 Request may just be the thing to buy you a little thinking time, so perhaps concentrate on that first, and hit them with it to keep them busy while you investigate the other issues (s18 etc).

 

Cheers,

BRW

[sharpgun]

cpr 18 ans s18 r they different? is there a template of cpr 18 am i asking the right question?

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Sharpgun!

 

cpr 18 ans s18 r they different?

Yes:

 

CPR 18 is Civil Procedure Rules Part 18.

 

s18 is part of The Consumer Credit Act 1974. and covers the issue of Agreements that are Multiple Agreements.

 

The Post below by Photoman towards the end of the CAG s18 Thread is of particular relevance to your MBNA Agreement with mis-sold PPI (the link below will take you straight to Photoman's Post):

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/171037-multiple-agreements-falling-within-21.html#post2259234

 

Please don't waste any time getting down to reading the above, as you must get a handle on these issues ASAP. Otherwise, your Claim runs the risk of hitting the buffers and letting MBNA off the hook. That would never do!

 

That bunch have been well and truly guilty of widespread PPI mis-selling ever since the idea of mis-selling PPI first popped into a banker's exceptionally greedy walnut!

 

...is there a template of cpr 18 am i asking the right question?

Yes, I think so. Not sure where on CAG it lives however. I've certainly seen a few CPR 18 Letters on CAG. Try doing a Search, or even try Searching Google, as that can often find things on CAG faster than the in-built CAG Search.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[sharpgun]

i need help from someone trying to find template fro cpr18 HELP

[sharpgun]

would this be ok?

IN Pursuant CPR18 request.

Please could you forward any recordings of telephone conversations between myself and mbna sales advisors

Please could you forward a true copy of the PPi insurance information booklet from the insurance company which underwrote my policy at the time the loan was taken out

is this a cpr18? and who do i send them to, just mbna? or the court as well?

Edited July 1, 2009 by sharpgun

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Sharpgun!

 

I'd hold off on the CPR 18 until you have made up a full list of all the things you might need.

 

Note the CPR 18 warning:

 

1.3

 

Requests must be made as far as possible in a single comprehensive document and not piecemeal.

 

IOW, avoid sending them a bunch of requests, but one single one. If you don't include what you want all in one go, the Court may well take a dim view of things, with the result that you may blow a chance to get everything that you need.

 

For example, you may like to ask for:

 

(1) A copy of the properly executed Regulated Loan Agreement. If it is a s18 cock-up, there may be scope to ask for restitutionary damages, see BankFodder's Thread:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/206522-restitutionary-damages-ppi.html#post2252236

 

(2) A copy of any Default Notice and Termination letters, to see if they ended the alleged Agreement correctly. If they did not get to enjoy the benefits of s87, they may owe you what ever you paid them.

 

(3) Full details of your Unemployment Claim. Why did they turn you down, do you have any letters from that time to confirm why they turned you down. If not, ask for them now.

 

(4) Did they pay any Commissions to other groups or individuals when you first took out this Loan with the mis-sold PPI...were these Secret Commissions for example. Ask for all details.

 

(5) If you sent them a SAR and they did not response, ask for all of that now, saying they were deliberately making it hard for you to bring a Claim against them. Ask the Court to allow you to revise your Claim once you have all of the missing information.

 

There may well be many more issues you may want to cover when you present them with your CPR 18 Request, so get digging and draw up a comprehensive list before you send it off...don't rush it, better to take a little longer and get it right.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[sharpgun]

right sending this off today

 

1.Please could you forward any recordings of telephone conversations between me and any MBNA staff.

2. Please could you forward a true copy or the PPI insurance policy documents that where applicable at the time the loan was taken out, by the company that underwrote the PPI policy in 2001. (I consider you deliberately withheld the information which was asked for in the sar which you failed to pass on)

3 Please could you forward any true copies of any Default Notice and Termination letters in regards to the above account

4 Could you please pass on any information on Commissions you paid to other groups or individuals.

[sharpgun]

As far as the loan agreement,the payments are all together as one.

Loan repayments and ppi are combined.Is this right?

[sharpgun]

ok i need to start thinking about what i do next because i dont have a clue. I have just sent of cpr 18. so what do i do next?

[sharpgun]

bump

[sharpgun]

hello anybody