Harrow Council PCNs for moving traffic contravention caught on CCTV

[Grazza21]

Hello,

 

I'd be very very grateful if anyone could offer some advice on 4 PCNs I have recieved from Harrow Borough Council over the period of 4 days earlier this month as I could really do without being stung for £240/£480.

 

The offences were all in the same location for the same prohibited manouvure (no right turn from Gayton Rd to Station Rd). All were caught on CCTV and I received all 4 PCNs on December 27th.

 

The PCN is sent to the owner of the vehicle (my partner), but she was in hospital during this period, so the offender was myself making a number of paniced trips to/from my home to the hospital via an unfamiliar route - hence the large number of offences in a short period of time.

 

I understand this is quite a notorious junction in the borough, and the CCTV camera there rakes in 3 times as much as any other camera in Harrow. Nevertheless, I've looked at all the signs and road markings and I'm pretty sure I have no grounds to appeal on the offence itself. My only hope is that there are some errors on the PCN that invalidate it. Can anybody help???

 

I'll attach the PCN images in a separate post.

[Grazza21]

Page 1 (1 PCN of 4)

 

[Grazza21]

Page 2 (1 PCN of 4)

 

[Grazza21]

My thoughts are that I may have slim chances in 2 areas:

 

1) There is no mention of the possibility to view the CCTV footage. The picture in and of itself does not show any offence by itself. Without knowledge of how to access the CCTV footage, how can I confirm the offence took place - especially as this PCN was sent to my partner who was not driving the vehicle at the time of the offence.

 

2) The "Location" does not mention which road I was supposed to have executed the prohibted manouvure from/to, and this is also not clear from the CCTV picture.

 

Does anybody have any other suggestions?

[sam1888]

Hi

What happened with this for you in the end? Was it due to cctv cameras, and when did they all spring up to catch motorists. From what I hear councils just want the cash, not interested in letting reasonable people off for mistakes sadly. They are focussed on the £££s.

 

[lookinforinfo]

Don't know if this will help but it might give you a chance-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/175114-harrow-council-pcns-moving.html

 

CASE NO 2080351250 Harrow vs Mr John Evans

 

This was an important case as the penalty charge notice was defective as it didn’t state that “compelling reasons” could be given. It was also a CCTV issued one and didn’t even state the right that a motorist has to view the evidence. Here is what the adjudicator said.

 

“It appears to the adjudicator that the PCN issued in this case is defective in that it did not state in full the nature of the representations that can be made under regulation 4 as required by Regulation 3(4)(b) civil enforcement of parking contraventions (England) Representations and appeals 2007. There appears to be no mention of the fact that representations may also be made on the basis of “compelling reasons” under s4(2)(b)(ii). Nor does there appear to be any indication of the effect of regulation 3 paragraphs (5) and (6) (right to view evidence). As required by regulation 3(4)(e).

[sam1888]

Hi, Do you have any idea when that was please the Harrow vs John Evans case?

[lookinforinfo]

It is case no 5 you are looking for. It doesn't say so on there but I think it was some time in 2008. Sorry the previous link didn't work

 

 

PenaltyCharge Notice.co.uk - Parking - Parking Adjudicators Decisions

[green_and_mean]

Don't know if this will help but it might give you a chance-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-offences/175114-harrow-council-pcns-moving.html

 

CASE NO 2080351250 Harrow vs Mr John Evans

 

This was an important case as the penalty charge notice was defective as it didn’t state that “compelling reasons” could be given. It was also a CCTV issued one and didn’t even state the right that a motorist has to view the evidence. Here is what the adjudicator said.

 

“It appears to the adjudicator that the PCN issued in this case is defective in that it did not state in full the nature of the representations that can be made under regulation 4 as required by Regulation 3(4)(b) civil enforcement of parking contraventions (England) Representations and appeals 2007. There appears to be no mention of the fact that representations may also be made on the basis of “compelling reasons” under s4(2)(b)(ii). Nor does there appear to be any indication of the effect of regulation 3 paragraphs (5) and (6) (right to view evidence). As required by regulation 3(4)(e).

 

Why would a moving traffic PCN need to include parts of the regulations for parking contraventions?? Moving traffic is enforced using completely different regulations so the case is of no use whatsoever.

[mulder5_uk]

Hello,

 

I'd be very very grateful if anyone could offer some advice on 4 PCNs I have recieved from Harrow Borough Council over the period of 4 days earlier this month as I could really do without being stung for £240/£480.

 

The offences were all in the same location for the same prohibited manouvure (no right turn from Gayton Rd to Station Rd). All were caught on CCTV and I received all 4 PCNs on December 27th.

 

The PCN is sent to the owner of the vehicle (my partner), but she was in hospital during this period, so the offender was myself making a number of paniced trips to/from my home to the hospital via an unfamiliar route - hence the large number of offences in a short period of time.

 

I understand this is quite a notorious junction in the borough, and the CCTV camera there rakes in 3 times as much as any other camera in Harrow. Nevertheless, I've looked at all the signs and road markings and I'm pretty sure I have no grounds to appeal on the offence itself. My only hope is that there are some errors on the PCN that invalidate it. Can anybody help???

 

I'll attach the PCN images in a separate post.

 

 

Harrow Council has raised millions of pound by abusing cctv and they have strategically placed very expensive cctv cameras purchased by using the council tax payers. Last year they issued well over 85000 PCN's. Multiply that by 120 how many millions does that make. Yet they do not have money for schools and community projects. If we can gather enough people to sign a petition we ca force the parliament to outlaw use of cctv camera to issue PCN.

 

mulder

[green_and_mean]

Harrow Council has raised millions of pound by abusing cctv and they have strategically placed very expensive cctv cameras purchased by using the council tax payers. Last year they issued well over 85000 PCN's. Multiply that by 120 how many millions does that make. Yet they do not have money for schools and community projects. If we can gather enough people to sign a petition we ca force the parliament to outlaw use of cctv camera to issue PCN.

 

mulder

 

On the other hand if they didn't bother catching and charging those that ignore traffic regulations they would have even less money for schools and community projects wouldn't they, your argument doesn't really make any sense. Why shouldn't cctv be used to catch those breaking the law, I'm sure if you got mugged or burgled you wouldn't claim it was unfair on the criminals that carried out the crime to use cctv so why are motorists above the law??

[Bernie_the_Bolt]

On the other hand if they didn't bother catching and charging those that ignore traffic regulations they would have even less money for schools and community projects wouldn't they, your argument doesn't really make any sense.

 

Are they allowed to use money raised from parking enforcement for such purposes?

[green_and_mean]

Are they allowed to use money raised from parking enforcement for such purposes?

 

They can spend it on roads and enviromental schemes which frees up Council tax money that would have been required for such things to be spent elsewhere.

[FDO100]

I got stung having visited Harrow (I live in Shropshire) after dark last May (2014) - drove west along GAYTON ROAD and saw a nice big right trun arrow into STATION ROAD so did that manouevre to meet wife coming from Harrow Station. Got a PCN some 4 weeks later. Checked on Google Streetview images - there is indeed a right hand turn white arrow but also, some 10 ft above the ground, small notices saying right turn is for taxis, buses, cycles only. Of course in the dark it's easy to miss the signs, just see the arrow. Fortunately the PCN was dated 29 days after the alleged offence - did some digging on the Web, the time limit for this sort of PCN is 28 DAYS. So just sent it back to Harrow, with the issue date clearly being 29 days after the event, they cancelled it. Phew, lucky...... (its 14 days for speeding tickets). Must be some divine justice after all, as this junction, especially after dark, is VERY misleading, and there's a nice CCTV camera pointed down from a tall pole, where drivers don't see it, onto this junction (you can see that on Google too). I bet Harrow have raked in £ thousands from this camera.