Court claim received, HSBC/ Restons....advice sought (as always!)

[Decanus]

Right, now the festivities are a fading memory, its back to business...

 

Restons have failed to comply with my CPR requests, and have actually been obstructive in their behaviour. Therefore, my defence, which I will need to file in the next day or two, will have to be a holding defence (which I have also had to submit in my other case)

 

I will draft one up tomorrow, given time, but if anyone has any ideas on what to include, what to add etc they will be gratefully received...Scabhunter, you have been along for the ride with this case from the get-go, so if you have a handy draft or input burning a hole in your pocket, do let me know!!

 

Thanks in advance, guys....

[ScabHunter]

I don't know about anything burning a hole in my pocket - right now it is more likely to be burning a hole in my head. I'm lying here with a temperature of 100.6 at the moment!

 

I'll be back later on with a few pointers. I don't think this defence will need to be substantially different from most similar ones. It might be an idea to keep it below the 8000 characters and submit it online, as they do seem rather keen to get hold of your signature for some extraordinary reason.

 

SH

[Decanus]

the dreaded lurgy strikes again - so many people are getting struck down at the moment; hope you feel better soon....

 

glad you pointed out the signature thing too, as I was starting to feel a little paranoid; they seem incredibly insistent, don't they.

 

What makes this odder is that I received a letter from HFC today concerning my complaint received by them on October 24th (amazing how with a court claim imminent they suddenly respond, isn't it?!). It was in response to one of several letters I sent WITHOUT any signature; they never once requested a signature for proof, and always acted as though they were more than happy I was who I said I was! The content was of course rubbish, insisting an application WAS an agreement if they said so

 

Exact words -'although the copy of the signed agreement you have been provided with states application, you will note in the signature box it states this is a credit agreement'

 

So, anyway, either Restons are fibbing over the fact their client 'insists' on signature proof just to be difficult and not deal with my CPR request, or they do seem to want to get hold of a document with my signature on it for some other reason. Curiouser and curiouser....

 

Look forward to your input later, Scabhunter, but only if you are up to it, of course!

[ScabHunter]

If you want to try drafting your own defence, which is a good idea as it helps you to understand the case law better, then you can base it around the defence from the Nottsdave thread -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/171510-help-please-court-papers-6.html#post1882272

 

This will give you a good basis to work from, although not all the circumstances are the same. Paragraphs 1 to 4 can be used as is, but I would leave out the parts about the CCA request (5-eight)

 

Paragraphs 9, 10 and 11 are highly relevant, as once again we are dealing with non-compliance with CPR requests. You should put these into your own words, to cover the fact that Restons have been obstructive. Not only have they refused to comply with your legitimate request, they have made unreasonable demands. Nowhere in the Civil Procedure Rules is there any requirement for requests for information to be signed, and they know it. If they don't accept that your name and address are genuine, what are they doing sending court papers to them?

 

13, 14 and 15 are essential, because they are the crux of your defence at the moment. They have sent you an application form which bears no prescribed terms.

 

17 and 18 should stay in. The default notice is not strictly compliant as it lacks some underlining which should be there, but that is not likely to be enough to defeat the claim. Anyway, we don't really want to defeat the claim on the default notice, because that would leave you owing the arrears. We want to defeat it on the unenforceable agreeement which will leave you owing nothing. It still doesn't do any harm to find another fault in their procedures, and, after all, we are only putting the claimant to strict proof.

 

19 and 20 need to stay in, as again they are relevant to the crux of the matter.

 

21 just asks for disclosure, and 22 is useful because you have a very old application form here, and you just want to make it clear which law applies.

 

It should take long to rewrite this defence to suit your own case. Write the defence as you want it, before you worry about character counts. If it goes over the 8000, you can then work out what to cut out, assuming you definitely want to file online.

 

Hope this helps.

 

SH

[Decanus]

Thanks for the input SH, it has given me a good skeleton to hang the structure on.

 

I am at work today, so am trying to work on it at different times on breaks etc, but it seems to be coming together fine. Slightly struggling with the word count, as I do want to enter this online, and nothing really seems expendable. Any ideas on which passages to lose? I'll continur to try and trim away...

[ScabHunter]

I've just within the last hour formulated a defence for someone else which they will need to submit online, as they are seriously short of time.

 

You might want to look at that one -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/173241-court-claim-form-received-2.html#post1894996

 

SH

[Decanus]

SH, congrats on passing the century mark. Thats a lot of help and advice dished out, which I'm sure everyone appreciates (I certainly do)

 

haven't been in long, but tomorrow will be submitting my defence. Having glanced over the other thread you've been helping on, is this all true that the MCOL site is now 122 lines , and not the 8000 words? I spent a while today trimming and trimming to get the defence under the 8000....aaargh!

 

I suspect that I can keep the defence as is, but just remove the spaces between paragraphs, so cutting the lines used in half. Won't look as pretty, but if thats the only way to do it, needs must!!

[ScabHunter]

Thanks for the congratulations. This is a lot more posts than I have ever made on any other forum in my life, so I guess I must like this place!

 

Appreciation can always be shown by clicking the old scales (HINT HINT) :D:D

 

I'm honestly not sure what happened on the Bubbles2008 thread. I suspect you are right that the problem was caused by line breaks which basically didn't achieve anything. It was just incredibly frustrating because we were very short of time. It was late in the day, and I honestly don't think we had more than one day left before time ran out. Maybe not even that.

 

I really didn't want those clowns to get judgment in default with the worst Particulars of Claim I have ever seen. pt2537 says they deserve to be struck out.

 

The best thing we can do is try to submit the defences we want to submit, and see what happens. If we keep having to trim bits out, it will give us a knowledge base to work from in the future.

 

One of my projects for when I get rid of this awful influenza is to shorten all of the template defences so they can be submitted online. I think that is a wise move, given the increase we are seeing in "creative" use of signatures.

 

My temperature is back down below 99 now, so I am getting better. Thanks for all the good wishes.

 

I'm still only a learner here. Look at rory32. I won't even mention Bookworm! Surely you need to employ people to post for you to get that many posts?

 

I'll be online again tomorrow, so if you want me to look your defence over before you submit it, just post it up and I'll have a look.

 

All the best,

 

SH

[Decanus]

scales duly tipped....

 

I took out the line breaks, and submitted the defence as is (with my tweaks from yesterday) so am happy with that. Its now up to them if I'm worth the expense of pursuing....

 

having done a bit of research here and elsewhere, Restons definitely seem to be, ahem, creative, with signatures, and have regular deliveries of scissors and pritt sticks, if you get my drift. Online responses to Restons, and printed name, NOT signature, are definitely the way to go...

 

SH, may your temperature continue to drop....

[ScabHunter]

scales duly tipped....

 

Thanks!

 

SH, may your temperature continue to drop....

 

Thanks again! Only down as far as around 98.6 I hope!

 

Well done for crafting your defence and getting it submitted. Can I just ask what the character count was, so we have a better idea of where we might stand in the future?

 

SH

[Decanus]

The character count was just under the cap, at about 7976 letters.

 

I managed to keep most of the defence in that you recommended, with the appropiately cut paragraphs not relevant to my case, but did take out all line spaces, and abbreviated the Civil Procedures Rules to CPR after I used it once.

 

So, with a little bit of tweaking, the 122 lines probably equates to cutting around 25% from the 'full' holding defence, as well as removing line breaks.

[ScabHunter]

The character count was just under the cap, at about 7976 letters.

 

I managed to keep most of the defence in that you recommended, with the appropiately cut paragraphs not relevant to my case, but did take out all line spaces, and abbreviated the Civil Procedures Rules to CPR after I used it once.

 

So, with a little bit of tweaking, the 122 lines probably equates to cutting around 25% from the 'full' holding defence, as well as removing line breaks.

 

That is very useful to know. Thanks for the input.

 

SH

[Decanus]

No movement on this yet. Nothing extra from court or solicitors, or in response to CPR requests....

 

other DCA' s have stepped up though, so busy there!

 

I'll update when I hear something...

[Decanus]

it's oh so quiet...nothing new to report, will check MCOL tonight

[Decanus]

I have been busy fighting on other fronts, especially Lyoyds and an impending court case, but it has dawned on me I have heard nothing back on this case, and the deadline must have long expired.

 

I have not heard from the court or Restons. I shall have to check MCOL tonight but if theres nothing, shall I sit tight, complain, or make an enquiry with the court?

[ScabHunter]

It never does any harm to ask the court what is happening. Without that knowledge, it is very difficult to know what to do next.

 

SH

[Decanus]

have checked online, and there has been no change on there. Imay have to fire off a letter to the court to see what the state of play is...

[Decanus]

this case is now back in play, received an Allocation Q today.

 

Had to re-read my own thread as its been awhile, and I had started to forget!!

 

Will work on the AQ, but any advie from anyone welcome as always...

[Decanus]

Right, have nearly finished up the AQ will post off soon.

 

I have until March 22nd to file, is it worth holding fire for a few days, otherwise it gives Restons the opportunity to read my AQ before they file theirs...

I am sending them a copy as a courtesy but I have heard they do not tend to send copies to defendents. Can I ask the court case manager to send me theirs?

 

all advice welcome....

[Nottsdave]

Hi D

 

I left mine to nearer the deadline date and then after the date had passed I sent a copy to the claimant by second class post as a matter or courtesy.

In my case they sent me a copy of thiers after the date from the court, but they didnt send it to court:confused:, the judge has ordered that thay have to file it by today or it will be struck out.

Im not sure the court will send you there copy but it might be worth a phone call.

 

Good Luck

 

Notts

[Decanus]

Posted off the AQ, DJ issued an order asking the claimant to provide agreement, default notice, and account statements.

 

They have complied, but 9 days late and with iffy docs,I think.

 

Firstly, is the compliance 9 days late an issue? should I complain to the court?

 

The 'agreement' they have sent me is an application form, clearly marked as such, and is Page 1 of 4 (no sign of 2,3 and 4). They have sent seperate terms and conditions that are unrelated and issued later.

 

The default notice is seemingly ok, except it does not match what I have; all the dates , facts and figures are the same, but it has a different layout, font etc its a different doc - is this important at all? Also the sum does include charges

 

the statements are 95% complete, but there are gaps where they have enclosed electronic printouts of transactions, but not in a statement format

 

My first feelings are to draft a letter to the court manager asking for the case to be struck out for non-compliance and lateness; failing that working (which I am guessing it won't), will I have to submit a new defence in place of the holding defence I had before?

 

Lastly, does the DJ order effectively replace the CPR requests I have made that are still waiting, or can I again ask for them to be fulfilled...

 

all help appreciated!!

[Decanus]

just bumping up, if anyone can help...

[Nottsdave]

bump

[Decanus]

thanks for bumping, Nottsdave, very quiet on the forums again....

[Nottsdave]

Hi Deacnus,

 

Im interested to see what the response to your question is, I have been sent a application form T&Cs that dont correspond and lots of statements.

 

Good Luck

 

Notts