Should I leave – Or Pursue?

[Von Greenbach]

Hello Josie

 

Although this may sound straight forward:

Yes and no....................they still have to have complied with the OFT determination for opt outs form CCA 1974 enforceability - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) would show that

I don't quite understand what it is you're saying.

 

(Sorry, it's just that I don't understand somethings very well)

[Von Greenbach]

There are 5 others who I am not paying a penny to and these make up about 70% of my total debts.

Really Fred?

 

Do you get any agro from any of them Fred?

 

This is what is bothering me, I doubt I could cope with the threats / intimidation letters again.

 

I have 2 DCAs who are unable to produce a valid CCA, yet I'm still paying them via my DMP, I'd love to tell one of them to $$$$ off.

[Pinky69]

I had a plan with CCCS and came out of it last November. Their admin was a shambles and if anything goes wrong, they don't deal with it. I had 12 debts and the last one has just failed to reply to a CCA request. Of the other 11, they either didn't have an enforceable agreement or didn't have an agreement at all. CCCS are alright to take the heat off when the proverbial hits the fan but they are not a long term solution. I wouldn't pay any DCA who doesn'y have an enforceable credit agreement. These debts are already written off against tax and the DCAs buy them for pence. They are not going to make a profit at my expense. Yes, it took quite a bit of paperwork but it has been more than worth it, thanks to CAG.

[Von Greenbach]

Hi Pinky

 

Yes, it took quite a bit of paperwork

Was that because the debt was sold on and on and on?

[DCA-KING]

I would cancel the DMP and write to all the creditors asking for a copy of a valid CCA dont sign the letter

and see what comes back

also when you write to them include the temp letter you will only deal in writing if the do call just do what i do

Hello Mr X Yes thats right And before the can say anything else just say lovely weather isnt it think il go out in the garden what do you think or maybe some shopping

MR X im calling about your account? MAYBE il go for a walk on the beach

MR X I need to talk about your ACCOUNT

Think il go down the pub Oh before i go i did tell you before i only talk about my account in writing BYE TAXIS HERE

that really frys there tiny brains

DK

[Von Greenbach]

Thank you all for your advice, I've decided what I'm going to do next.

 

Does anyone know what the total cost is for a £1.00 postal order?

[Pinky69]

My debts weren't passed on that much - the paperwork was mostly to do with disputing the debts and writing to the DCAs complaints departments. No single account was passed on more than once. Once I had requested the copy of the agreement, I didn't trade letters with them because in my view they don't read them and just keep churning out threatograms (CAG speak for letters threatening to eat your babies if you don't cough up). After the initial request, if they continued to pursue payment when the account was in dispute, I made a formal complaint to their complaints department. I told them that if they didn't stop their unlawful behaviour, quoting the legislation, I would take legal action against them and as current holders of the alleged debt, they would be liable for all charges, costs and compensation, as they would if the passed it on. I never heard from them again after that. I also sent complaints to the OFT and took one bank to the Financial Ombudsman Service - that is ongoing at the moment. I've had apologies from Wescot and Frederickson and the accounts closed immediately - they don't like it up em' !! I haven't paid a single penny to the DCAs since last November, I haven't heard from any of them since April - apart from the last one, which I am dealing with now and they are past the time to send agreements - and the only people who phone are my friends and family. Peace perfect peace. And remeber I knew no more about this than fly in the air 1 year ago. I learned fast with CAG and added a few twists and turns of my own.

[Von Greenbach]

added a few twists and turns of my own.

I only wish I could think of some of my own.

 

I don't feel strong enough to stand up to the DCAs, which is why I'm still paying 2 without a valid CCA.

 

I've gone through one DCAs complaint dept (Have a thread on here about it) and they are still writing to me, even though I'm paying them through CCCS.

[hillards]

Thank you all for your advice, I've decided what I'm going to do next.

 

Does anyone know what the total cost is for a £1.00 postal order?

 

On http://www.postoffice.co.uk/portal/po/jump1?catId=19400177&mediaId=73500709 it says

Prices from 13th October 2008

Purchase Value £0 - £4.99 Fee Payable 50p

[Von Greenbach]

Hillards

 

How stupid am I?

 

Now I know why I couldn't find anything, it's under "Post Office" for some reason I was looking under Royal Mail.

 

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

[hillards]

Now I know why I couldn't find anything, it's under "Post Office" for some reason I was looking under Royal Mail.

A long time since they split up - and so easy to mix the two up still.

 

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

No problemo...

[supasnooper]

Hi VG,

 

Just to add to what Fred and Pinky have said about CCCS.

 

My OH has a DMP with CCCS.

When a court summons for a credit card debt arived they gave advice along the lines of admit the debt and so didn't contest the claim - now has a CCJ. (we didn't know about CAG then)

The judgment when it came through had set the monthly payments at 4 times what was paid through the DMP.

Fair do's to CCCS, they did advise applying for a redetermination hearing BUT wrongly advised NOT to pay the first payment as it was going back to court - the result, an interim Charging Order ! ( Went back to court and the final Charging Order was dismissed together with a realistic monthly payment being set - very stressful though ).

 

CCCS are great for taking the heat off you initially as Banks and DCA's must go to them and not you........ but their follow-up advice may put you up the creek without a paddle.

[Von Greenbach]

When a court summons for a credit card debt arived they gave advice along the lines of admit the debt and so didn't contest the claim - now has a CCJ. (we didn't know about CAG then)

Excatly the same has happened to me with NR

Fair do's to CCCS, they did advise applying for a redetermination hearing

That's what they've told me to do

BUT wrongly advised NOT to pay the first payment as it was going back to court

I'm waiting for it to be transferred to my local CC so I ca attend the hearing

- the result, an interim Charging Order ! ( Went back to court and the final Charging Order was dismissed together with a realistic monthly payment being set - very stressful though )

This is what NR are after, I have a thread running about it in the legal forum.

CCCS are great for taking the heat off you initially as Banks and DCA's must go to them and not you........

When we first got into a mess, yes, they were great in taking the pressure of us, I don't cope well under stress / pressure.

but their follow-up advice may put you up the creek without a paddle.

It's that what is scarring me to death, I have 2 creditors unable to produce a CCA, and CCCS say I must continue to pay all my creditors and NOT be choosy in who I pay.

 

I wish I was strong enough with sufficient knowledge to handle my debts alone, but some how I get a sense of security dealing through CCCS.

 

I find the whole god dam lot of it confusing.

 

However, your comments are appreciated

[supasnooper]

Hi V G,

 

I've just popped over to your other thread and posed a couple of questions.

 

Just take your time to read some of the other threads (especially the *Won* ones as they tend to show the path and strategy used ) and slowly you'll begin to unravel and understand the complexities of what you wish to achieve.

 

And ask questions if you don't understand.

 

Remember - The silly question is the one that doesn't get asked.

[Von Greenbach]

And ask questions if you don't understand.

 

Remember - The silly question is the one that doesn't get asked.

 

Thanks you, today is a new day for us, I'm going to buy 6 postal orders and CCA the remaining 6 creditors.

[supasnooper]

I would suggest that you keep a folder for each creditors correspondence and keep it up to date - just makes it easier for you to refer to things.

 

Also worth printing off an extra copy of any letters you write as you'll have a hard copy to hand if you ever experience a computer breakdown.

 

Good luck to you as you venture forth......and enjoy the day !

[Von Greenbach]

I would suggest that you keep a folder for each creditors correspondence and keep it up to date - just makes it easier for you to refer to things.

 

Also worth printing off an extra copy of any letters you write as you'll have a hard copy to hand if you ever experience a computer breakdown.

 

Good luck to you as you venture forth......and enjoy the day !

Thank you very much for the tips.

[Von Greenbach]

Not sure if I should create another thread, so I’ll post here to be safe.

 

Something’s troubling me and I’m hoping someone can answer my question, if no CCA was produced on a debt, can the DCA / Creditor still take court action claiming as we’ve been paying the debt for xxxxx time, we are accountable for it.

[hillards]

Not sure if I should create another thread, so I’ll post here to be safe.

 

Something’s troubling me and I’m hoping someone can answer my question, if no CCA was produced on a debt, can the DCA / Creditor still take court action claiming as we’ve been paying the debt for xxxxx time, we are accountable for it.

Usually the DCA will say they've closed the file and 'returned it' to their 'client'. They will take it off their systems, so should not chase you for it any further.

 

As most people on CAG now know, the DCA has no 'client' as such, they've bought a big bundle of accounts and it is now THEIR problem to try and get some payment to cover the money they paid for the alleged debt.

 

If the fail to produce a valid CCA then that particular DCA has not rights to process it further. BUT, these companies have handshake agreements between themselves, where they will swap accounts that one has failed to collect on, giving the new DCA the opportunity to start all over again...

 

As you have written information from a DCA to the effect that they've no legal document against which to process the account, they have no chance of taking you to court - even if there is an audit trail of payments.

 

Obviously you were hoodwinked by these people into paying as they made so many threats over the telephone and by letter. You were intimidated into complying with their demands.

 

Over a period of time you checked into the matter and requested proof that they had any right to demand the time of day from you - they failed to prove they , so sod 'em!

 

I wouldn't recommend trying to claim the money already paid back through.

[Von Greenbach]

Thanks for the reply, this is where I’m having difficulty, is it as simple as that, if no CCA can be produced, I just stop paying, and wave by, by to them.

 

If it really is that simple, for some reason, I’m having difficulty digesting it, I find it difficult that they just give up.

[hillards]

It may help to read through my post at http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/169113-capquest-another-tale.html#post1825326

 

In a nutshell. The original creditor have written off the debt from their books. They get certain tax breaks to help offset the loss. Bulk outstanding accounts are made available for debt collection agencies to buy, which they do. They pay only pennies in the pound, the original creditor gets a further 10% of the balance via such sale to make them happy. There is now no obligation to the original creditor.

 

By using scare tactics the DCA can get a lot of people to pay up with little effort. The DCA makes lot of money. By reading around CAG you can see that they make threats, say they will get an attachement of earnings, send the bailiffs in, contact your employer - all designed to frighten people but they can do none of those things without court action.

 

However, the canny users of CAG have found that many of the DCA's are not too fussy what accounts they are dealing with, many are shown to be rather faulty - such as having no documentation to prove there is a debt.

Remember, this is NOT the company who put the money up in the first place, the DCA's are just chancers, out to make a few bob from telling porkies, I'll get told off if I were to suggest they were any worse than licensed vultures.

 

You never owed the DCA money, did you? They bought some info that told them you may have owed another company at some point, but they are not able to back that up so they are not allowed to hassle you for it any more. You've called their bluff.

 

Imagine that a man in the street demands your wallet, he points a gun at you to enforce his actions. You call his bluff, as you can see it's only a water pistol. He says 'OK, you caught me out' and walks away.

 

The DCA's don't even have a water pistol, it's usually intimidation on the phone and dodgy threats by letter. Once you understand how they operate, how they get their money, you'll understand why CAGgers are only too happy to tell these companies to 'go away' and not pay them.

[Von Greenbach]

Thank you for your detailed explanation, it takes time to sink in, but sink in it will.

 

The difficulty I've had with all this is the conflicting information from CCCS, 2 DCAs cannot produce a CCA, yet CCCS have told me to keep paying them along with my other creditors, that's where the confusion has arisen.

You never owed the DCA money, did you? They bought some info that told them you may have owed another company at some point, but they are not able to back that up so they are not allowed to hassle you for it any more

OK, I follow that, but then why do the DCA say they have requested my CCA from the OC, or say as they're unable to produce it, they've returned it back to the OC if the OC has sold it on, this part is confusing me, and I'm sorry for all the questions.

[hillards]

Yes, I am still here at 4am... ;-)

 

CCCS were set up by the debt recovery companies, although they are a free service, registered as a charity. Their view is that you HAVE got debt, even if you choose to dispute it, and it is only fair that you treat all of your debts equally, even if there is a way of stopping the enforecement.

 

They tell you that you cannot pick and choose who to pay, and will happily refuse to deal with you further if you try and change the goalposts after going to them. I'm pretty sure they have ways of checking your credit record to make sure you've told them about every debt.

 

I have exactly the same situation with my step-daughter, although she used a different service originally, then discovered they were not paying her debtors and was getting phone calls and letters again, or rather that I was - but that's a different story. She has now gone to CCCS but I know, from the letters she still gets, that several of these debts can be re-negotiated or even negated altogether.

 

CCCS will insist on paying everyone the full amount. It may take centuries to clear. I told her that going bankrupt was the better option as that would be over in a few years time, whereas CCCS will have her signed up for life!

 

Please, nobody get me wrong, CCCS offer a good free service, which is always a better option than a pay-for one, but they are not flexible and see any form of 'avoidance' as unacceptable to them.

 

why do the DCA say they have requested my CCA from the OC, or say as they're unable to produce it

It's part of the game. Some DCA's will try and obtain the paperwork from the company they bought the debt from, so it's not all flannel. Look at this as stalling a while longer, in the hope you'll pay them. Most of the DCA's know they will not get the info required, so some don't even bother asking for it any more.

 

Who said that DCA's ever tell the whole truth? The make mention of sending the bailiffs in, getting an attachment of earnings order - some people think that a DCA can actually do this, but WE know they have to apply to the court for these things.

 

As always, these are my opinions based on my personal knowledge of actual dealings with these companies or gained from other cases here on CAG. None of the above should be used as fact for legal purposes without confirmation.

[Von Greenbach]

I'm learning quite fast here as I go along, and I hope you don't mind me asking.

 

I've had some difficulties with CCCS, regarding no CCA on 2 accounts, basically they told me all or nothing, when we got into this mess they were very good at the beginning, but not so supportive when the Law is on my side re CCA.

 

OK, all that being said, you know eventually a DMP and creditors settle down, just as ours has, do the debts with no CCA ever settle down, or is it a constant chase and catch game?

 

I'm looking at the long term if no CCA is produced and we decide to stop paying the creditors / DCAs.

[Josie8]

I'm learning quite fast here as I go along, and I hope you don't mind me asking.

 

I've had some difficulties with CCCS, regarding no CCA on 2 accounts, basically they told me all or nothing, when we got into this mess they were very good at the beginning, but not so supportive when the Law is on my side re CCA.

 

OK, all that being said, you know eventually a DMP and creditors settle down, just as ours has, do the debts with no CCA ever settle down, or is it a constant chase and catch game?

 

I'm looking at the long term if no CCA is produced and we decide to stop paying the creditors / DCAs.

 

 

After 6 years statute of limitations comes into play. Either write and tell them that you have no intention of making any more voluntary payments or just ignore them.

They are only allowed to contact you where a debt is unenforceable to see if you will agree to make voluntary payments (lol).

 

If you ignore them totally then they will turn their attentions to someone else - while you communicate with them they see hope of wearing you down.

 

Alternatively negotiate Full & Final settlements making any agreed payment via a third party so as to be binding