HSBC Unfair Charges - Which way to go?

[alanalana]

Hello all,

 

I have been successful with an earlier claim against HSBC on behalf of my Daughter. However since the High Court action started the charges have still been applied to her account and I now wish to put in a claim to get them refunded.

 

As the charges have not been classed as penalities is the way forward to claim using the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 as grounds for a claim?

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

Thank you

 

aa

[car2403]

Yes, but the claim will be stayed pending the OFT TC outcome.

[alanalana]

Car,

 

Thank you for your response, understood. I will post a letter hopefully for more advice later.

 

aa

[sea-sidelady]

I know I have asked you before, but that was a different claim. Can you claim hardship?

[alanalana]

Hello seaside lady,

 

Thank you for responding to my thread:)

 

I do not believe there is the potential for a hardship claim unless you class a member of the military just back from Afghanistan as a hardship case the reclaiming would be most probably unlikely.

 

I have produced this letter in line with the claim within the UTCCR 1999.

 

Please have a look and advise as you see fit. The old claims were settled either before Court or by goodwill gesture but since the High Court case it is new territory.

 

 

Mr xxx

xxx

xxx

xxx

xxx

DATE 2008

HSBC Bank plc

xxx

xxx

xxx

xxx

 

Dear Sir,

 

Claim for Unfair Charges to HSBC Account Number xxxxxxx

 

I have recently been authorised by my daughter to act as her named representative with regard to reclaiming unfair bank charges levied against her account.

(Copy of letter enclosed).

 

I request repayment of all unfair charges made to her account between 25 March 2007 to date.

 

Under the terms of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 (UTCCR) Paragraphs 5 (1)(2)(3)(4) and (5). The charges made against her account were unfair as the Terms and Conditions applied to her account were not individually negotiated.

 

Your Terms and Conditions were a pre formulated standard contract which put her at a distinct disadvantage.

 

Paragraph 8 (1) of the UTCCR 1999 states:

“An unfair term in a contract concluded with a consumer by a seller or supplier shall not be binding on the consumer”.

 

I believe that the charges levied against her were disproportionately high sums in compensation (UTCCR 1999 Schedule 2 Regulation 5(5) Paragraph 1(e) refers) to you as against the actual costs incurred by your organisation.

 

Furthermore the charges applied were not negotiable but were binding on her as the consumer. (UTCCR 1999 Schedule 2 Regulation 5(5) Paragraph 1© and 1(i)).

I there require repayment to my daughter the following:

 

Date Charge

25 March 2007 £100.00

17 May 2007 £25.00

25 May 2007 £100.00

25 June 2007 £50.00

25 July 2007 £150.00

25 August 2007 £125.00

25 Oct 2007 £25.00

25 November 2007 £125.00

25 December 2007 £25.00

25 January 2008 £50.00

29 January 2008 £25.00

25 February 2008 £150.00

Total £950.00

 

I am aware that the bank charging issues is the subject of ongoing legal action.

 

I will however require written confirmation from you for the of receipt of this letter which is being forwarded by Royal Mail Special Delivery.

 

Yours sincerely

 

aa

 

Any views or pointers or smacks on the wrist received gratefully so I can get the claim right;)

 

aa

[johnnymitch]

Hi alanalana,

 

Although it is a long process, the advice from the site is still the same ..... if you fail to get the bank to refund, send them a Letter Before Action (LBA) and follow it up with court action.......

 

The claim will of course be stayed, but you will be 'in the system' for when the claims are paid, as we believe they will....... also the amount claimed starts attracting 8% section 69 Interest once court action is taken ....

see the spreadsheet for working this out at:

England - Simple - Excel

England - Simple - Works

England - Simple - OpenOffice

 

England - Advanced - Excel

England - Advanced - Works

 

Scotland - Simple - Excel

Scotland - Simple - Works

Scotland - Advanced - Excel

But don't include the interest in your LBA list of Charges.......

Edited November 3, 2008 by johnnymitch
sorting out font marks .........

[alanalana]

johnnymitch,

 

Thank you for the advice. I will follow the rules to make sure all is as per advice given.

 

Does anyone have any views on the letter posted ?

 

aa

[johnnymitch]

I think that letter would count as a Prelim letter aa, - you'll get the usual blurb from the bank about not dealing with it ..... putting it on fille etc. etc...... ignore that , or rather, when you send your LBA , refer to how 'disappointed you are with their response' to it ........ and follow through.........

 

Best of Luck

[alanalana]

Thank you once more Johnnymitch,

 

I will follow your advice.

 

aa

[johnnymitch]

Happy to help ...........

[Paintball]

Hello seaside lady,

 

Thank you for responding to my thread:)

 

I do not believe there is the potential for a hardship claim unless you class a member of the military just back from Afghanistan as a hardship case the reclaiming would be most probably unlikely.

 

I have produced this letter in line with the claim within the UTCCR 1999.

 

Please have a look and advise as you see fit. The old claims were settled either before Court or by goodwill gesture but since the High Court case it is new territory.

 

 

Mr xxx

xxx

xxx

xxx

xxx

DATE 2008

HSBC Bank plc

xxx

xxx

xxx

xxx

 

Dear Sir,

 

Preliminary Request for Payment

 

Claim for Unfair Charges to HSBC Account Number xxxxxxx

 

I have recently been authorised by my daughter to act as her named representative with regard to reclaiming unfair bank charges levied against her account.

(Copy of letter enclosed).

 

I request repayment of all unfair charges made to her account between 25 March 2007 to date.

 

Under the terms of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999 (UTCCR) Paragraphs 5 (1)(2)(3)(4) and (5). The charges made against her account were unfair as the Terms and Conditions applied to her account were not individually negotiated.

 

Your Terms and Conditions were a pre formulated standard contract which put her at a distinct disadvantage.

 

Paragraph 8 (1) of the UTCCR 1999 states:

“An unfair term in a contract concluded with a consumer by a seller or supplier shall not be binding on the consumer”.

 

I believe that the charges levied against her were disproportionately high sums in compensation (UTCCR 1999 Schedule 2 Regulation 5(5) Paragraph 1(e) refers) to you as against the actual costs incurred by your organisation.

 

Furthermore the charges applied were not negotiable but were binding on her as the consumer. (UTCCR 1999 Schedule 2 Regulation 5(5) Paragraph 1© and 1(i)).

I therefore require repayment to my daughter the following:

 

Date Charge

25 March 2007 £100.00

17 May 2007 £25.00

25 May 2007 £100.00

25 June 2007 £50.00

25 July 2007 £150.00

25 August 2007 £125.00

25 Oct 2007 £25.00

25 November 2007 £125.00

25 December 2007 £25.00

25 January 2008 £50.00

29 January 2008 £25.00

25 February 2008 £150.00

Total £950.00

 

I am aware that the bank charging issues is the subject of ongoing legal action.

 

I will however require written confirmation from you for the of receipt of this letter which is being forwarded by Royal Mail Special Delivery.

 

Yours sincerely

 

aa

 

Any views or pointers or smacks on the wrist received gratefully so I can get the claim right;)

 

aa

Hi Alan, just a couple of edits though not as sharp-eyed as you are ;-) ... yes get that request in so that your daughter can file her claim in court ... I have one languishing there with the Co-Op

I think that letter would count as a Prelim letter aa, - you'll get the usual blurb from the bank about not dealing with it ..... putting it on fille etc. etc...... ignore that , or rather, when you send your LBA , refer to how 'disappointed you are with their response' to it ........ and follow through.........

 

Best of Luck

Yep, follow the process pet ... all the way to court

[alanalana]

Hello Painty,

 

Hi Alan, just a couple of edits though not as sharp-eyed as you are ... yes get that request in so that your daughter can file her claim in court ... I have one languishing there with the Co-Op

 

 

Yep, follow the process pet ... all the way to court :grin:

 

Many thanks for that I will be calling again no doubt. I did follow the Court route last time but got goodwill settlements on all claims against Halifax, RBS and HSBC. Which at the time I was happy to accept.

 

This time I will go with the flow again with LBA etc.

 

aa

[Mr lex]

Hi Alanalana,

 

You are getting the best advice on this thread

 

When you send off your first letter the banks response will be to probably try to tell you you can't claim because the case's are 'stayed' It is important that you ignore this and carry, only the courts can put a 'stay' on your claim.

 

Although the banks have a ongoing test case with OFT there are a number of reasons why you should take your claim to court now.

 

Any older charges (coming up to 6 years) could be lost if you wait for the OFT case to end. Start your claim now and those charges are protected.

 

When the stays are finally lifted, you will be one of the first in the queue to get paid.

 

While the banks are protected by the stays, we the consumer, have no such protection and charges continue to mount up.

For some people this may mean going into default. If it is clear that the default was made in respect of charges and that it was lodged after a charges claim was begun then these users have a really excellent chance of having it removed.

 

Hope this helps

 

Lex

[alanalana]

Hello Mr Lex,

 

Hi Alanalana,

 

You are getting the best advice on this thread

 

When you send off your first letter the banks response will be to probably try to tell you you can't claim because the case's are 'stayed' It is important that you ignore this and carry, only the courts can put a 'stay' on your claim.

 

Although the banks have a ongoing test case with OFT there are a number of reasons why you should take your claim to court now.

 

Any older charges (coming up to 6 years) could be lost if you wait for the OFT case to end. Start your claim now and those charges are protected.

 

When the stays are finally lifted, you will be one of the first in the queue to get paid.

 

While the banks are protected by the stays, we the consumer, have no such protection and charges continue to mount up.

For some people this may mean going into default. If it is clear that the default was made in respect of charges and that it was lodged after a charges claim was begun then these users have a really excellent chance of having it removed.

 

Hope this helps

 

Many thanks. It does indeed help this means I have two potential progressions to Court action.

 

aa

[alanalana]

Hello all,

 

I have now received the basic response from HSBC. We are holding your letter on file etc etc.

 

It is now time for a LBA, however before I submit this I will need some advice please.

 

My daughter has notified HSBC authorising me by letter to act on her behalf. They are directing mail to me with reference to her account.

 

Can I after sending a LBA submit a claim to the Local Court on her behalf or will she have to take the necessary action herself?

 

aa

[johnnymitch]

Hi aa,

 

I would say that because HSBC have recognised that you are acting for your daughter with authority it should be ok for you to initiate court action too .

But why not ring the court office and ask them what the form is on this .....I find they are usually pretty helpful and it would save HSBC (or DG, their solicitors ) claiming that you had no rights to do this.

[Mr lex]

I am with Johnny here,

 

You might make sure all parties have a copy of your daughters letter.

 

Lex

[Castlebest]

Strictly speaking the courts don't normally allow a "non legal" person to represent another, even husbands and wives who are quite commonly viewed at the same legal entity.

 

As JM and Lex say you need to ask the court manager what is allowed and if there is any way you can represent your daughter.

 

pete

[alanalana]

Lex and castlebest,

 

I am with Johnny here,

 

You might make sure all parties have a copy of your daughters letter.

 

Lex

 

your input is much appreciated. It could be a long and winding path if she is unable to claim directly.

 

The issues are she is in the services and they would need to know about any court action.

 

Court action could have a detrimental affect on her. Even though she would be claimant.

[car2403]

Strictly speaking the courts don't normally allow a "non legal" person to represent another, even husbands and wives who are quite commonly viewed at the same legal entity.

 

As JM and Lex say you need to ask the court manager what is allowed and if there is any way you can represent your daughter.

 

pete

 

I've always found the Courts to be sensitive on this issue, giving permission when asked, but I'd imagine it may be a different story if you didn't ask in advance.

 

I've even been referred to as "Mrs" by t a Judge, (I'm a male!) who was obviously confused when I said I wanted to represent a female and he gave permission.

 

Bless these old dears, they don't get out much you know...

[johnnymitch]

I'm not absolutely sure about this, but I think the forces only need to know about Criminal cases , not civil action. And , as you say , she is the claimant , so there should be no detriment to her.

 

I would imagine that there are many members of the forces amongst those claiming refunds ......

 

Also , as Car 2403 says, the courts will probably be accommodating, especially if your daughter cannot attend due to 'the exigencies of Military Service'

[alanalana]

Thanks to Mr Lex, Castlebest, Car2403 and Johnnymitch for the above advice,

 

I will be seeing my daughter tomorrow so will chat to her about it before commencing further. If she is fine with it I will contact my local Court for advice before proceeding with LBA.

 

aa

[car2403]

I will be seeing my daughter tomorrow so will chat to her about it before commencing further. If she is fine with it I will contact my local Court for advice before proceeding with LBA.

 

The problem being is the Court won't commit to anything at this stage - you would need to have a hearing date, have written to the Court to request permission for someone other than the Claimant to represent the Claimant, then get the actual permission of the Judge, hearing the case, on the day of the hearing. As they won't know who the Judge is, or when it will (if it does!) come to Court, they probably won't be able to answer your question.

 

Of course, that shouldn't stop you asking, but just have low expectations surrounding getting the answer you want first time around.

 

Also, if you're written previously, and continued on that basis, you could bring that the Judge's attention on the day, stating you wouldn't have brought any claim if you didn't think permission wasn't going to be granted.

 

I can't see a reason why you can't do this, but then, I can't see a reason why a Judge would abandoned a day's worth of hearings listed for consideration to go Golfing early - but it does happen!

[alanalana]

The problem being is the Court won't commit to anything at this stage - you would need to have a hearing date, have written to the Court to request permission for someone other than the Claimant to represent the Claimant, then get the actual permission of the Judge, hearing the case, on the day of the hearing. As they won't know who the Judge is, or when it will (if it does!) come to Court, they probably won't be able to answer your question.

 

Of course, that shouldn't stop you asking, but just have low expectations surrounding getting the answer you want first time around.

 

Also, if you're written previously, and continued on that basis, you could bring that the Judge's attention on the day, stating you wouldn't have brought any claim if you didn't think permission wasn't going to be granted.

 

I can't see a reason why you can't do this, but then, I can't see a reason why a Judge would abandoned a day's worth of hearings listed for consideration to go Golfing early - but it does happen!

 

Thank you car I believe this is fraught with dangers in as much as if I get this wrong and the DJ does not grant permission for me to represent then he could in all reality strike out in favour of the defendant. The other point is, as a litigant in person I would not be totally sure of my ground should there be stays etc. If the DJ does not accept myself acting as a representative so case stayed the next time round it may be a different DJ same result. Catch 22 it seems to me.

 

aa

[Mr lex]

I'm not absolutely sure about this, but I think the forces only need to know about Criminal cases , not civil action. And , as you say , she is the claimant , so there should be no detriment to her.

 

I would imagine that there are many members of the forces amongst those claiming refunds ......

 

Also , as Car 2403 says, the courts will probably be accommodating, especially if your daughter cannot attend due to 'the exigencies of Military Service'

 

Hi Alan,

 

I have looked into this a bit further, Johnny is right, the services have no interest unless you daughter is having criminal or bankruptcy action taken against her. As the bank appear to have accepted that you are handling your daughters affairs in her absence, I feel a court will accept this as long as you have informed them !! That is assuming it gets that far, very, very few of the 10,000 people that this site has helped reclaim their charges have ever been near the courtroom steps.

 

Your doing fine Alan

 

Lex