Andrew James Enforcement - CTAX debt

[wildrob]

Hi

 

i have just have 2 people from andrew james enforcement to collect money for this years council tax.

i would not allow them in, how on the goods and chattels, they put my car and reg down, i told the that i needed it for work, and was told to get the bus!!!!

also was charged to 2 visits before, no proof of visits or letters.

was also charged £125 for van attendance.

for the last 4 year the council have done an attachment of earnings which im happy with.

 

can they take my car, if they do i will lost my job, and then my house, i live in a small village, and work is 15 miles away a bus will take 2hours and i start a 7am or finish at 10pm.

the 125 for van attendance, how are they going to get to my house walk for swansea 15 miles away?

should they have put a letter though my door on each visit?

 

any advice would be great

 

cheers

rob

[42man]

Rob i'll transfer this to the bailiffs section where you should get some more help and advice...

[wildrob]

quick update, i have sent a letter to the council saying that i will only deal with them and will make monthly payments to them, i also pointed out the andrew james added £210 on top of the bill.

[chris600uk]

Ok, first of all what do you owe the Council,

 

If they have levied upon your car, how do you know? What paperwork have they given you, who is the owner of the car, who's on the logbook.

 

The purpose of levying on the car, if that's what they've done is to scare you into paying them or letting them in.

[chris600uk]

They have visited and left a letter so they are entitled to charge for that, but only if they actually visited - up to a maximum of £43.50 comprising £24.50 for the first visit, and £18.00 for the second.

 

If they have correctly levied on the car, then they are entitled to make a charge for that too.

 

But the charges are set out very clearly.

Example of Bailiff’s Fees for Council Tax

 

Below, we have provided you with the amount of Statutory Fees that bailiffs should charge for the collection of unpaid Council Tax/Business Rates.

 

Please note that the regulations do not allow for a bailiff company to charge a fee for sending you a letter when collecting Council Tax.

 

The Statutory Fees they can charge, are as follows:

 

First visit fee: £24.50

 

This is for a first attendance to levy, but where a levy does not takes place. (For example; where you are not in)

 

The bailiff can charge a levy fee if they levy, but he cannot charge both amounts on the same occasion.

 

 

Second visit fee: £18.00

 

Despite any further visits, the bailiff can only charge for a maximum of 2 visits.

 

 

Attendance fee: Reasonable Costs

 

The Statutory Regulations state the following:

 

" one attendance with a vehicle with a "view to recovering goods after a levy has been made"

 

The maximum number of removal/attending to remove/enforcement fees that a bailiff may charge is two. However for the second visit then goods must have actually been removed.

 

extracted from TT's webpage, hope that's ok, if not I promise faithfully not to do it again

[wildrob]

hi thanks for your replys

 

this is the 1st time andrew james have come to me, i have had no paperwork from them.

1st visit july 08, £22.50, 2nd visit aug 08, £16.50

letter given to me was a distree notice, seizure & inventory, i would not allow them in and even locked the door when i went to get proof.

they have put my car as goods and effects which can be seized.

i have written to council saying that i will pay them £30 per month, i owe £329 council tax.

liability order was 25/06/08 1st visit was it looks like 03/07/08 that was quick

i own the car its in my name, i need a car for work.

[chris600uk]

Then they can only charge for the first visit plus the levy on the car.

 

They don't care whether you need the car or not.

 

You must find out exactly how much you owe the council, contact them directly, because the bailiffs will try and add unlawful charges hoping you won't know. If you can, get the money that the council is owed and pay them direct, and that leaves the bailiff swinging in the breeze having to chase their fees just like any normal person.

[wildrob]

i have just spoken to the bailiffs, and have til monday to pay the full amount.

i said i could not pay the full amount £525 and they said that they will take my car on monday.

if my car is taken i will lose my job and house.

i asked for proof of visit as you must keep copys and full names of the bailiffs, he said that i was delaying it and again will take my car and hung up. cheeky so and so

 

can i use the courts to stop the bailiffs? because i will lose my house and car, i work 12 miles away?

is there anything else i can do.

i wrote to the council offering £30 per month, but was told to talk to the bailiff

 

cheers

rob

[Bongo Dancer]

Form 4 the bailiff for threatening to take a vehicle needed for work. http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/form4_0606.pdf

 

On [DATE] I was visited by the bailiff collecting unpaid council tax. He demanded £[AMOUNT] of which his fees were £[AMOUNT]. He also said he would make house visits at unreasonable times of night to obtain money from me and take a vehicle needed for the ordinary course of my business.

 

The bailiff enforced the debt and charged fees I understand contradict Regulation 45 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 and commits an offence under Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006.

 

I have tried to reach an amicable resolve with the bailiff and his firm but they have become defensive and vexatious in nature.

 

I ask that I am compensated the money paid to the bailiffs and the sum of £4999 compensation for seeking discovery of information and bringing this matter to court

 

Phone the bailiffs and ask which court issued his certificate and send the above with a covering letter asking for it to be placed before a judge.

 

Complain to the council:

 

Name of Council

Address 1

Address 2

Address 3

Address 4

 

[DATE]

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re: YOUR NAME & ANY REF: Visit by your bailiff on [DATE]

 

I have had an opportunity to seek advice and I write on the understanding that case law rules an authority is liable for its bailiffs I now ask within fourteen (14) days the council unconditionally pays me £1500 for

 

a) Discovery of information and researching the legal background to the case

b) Administrative work with other authorities

c) Receiving your bailiff who fails to comply with the law by threating to take a motor vehicle needed in the ordinary course of my business.

 

For the avoidance of doubt, if you fail to furnish me with above I will consider this to be your final resolution and I will not enter further correspondence with you. I will automatically file a claim with the Local Government Ombudsman.

 

This document is delivered by Royal Mail and I deem it good service upon you by the ordinary course of post under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978 and therefore it is your responsibility and in your own interests this letter is handed to the relevant person within your organisation.

 

Yours Truly

 

 

[YOUR NAME]

[Saffronflowers]

Couple of questions - have the council told you why they are using bailiffs and not the attachment of earnings - has the ate stopped if not this should have been reducing the debt, Did you save the money that you were offering the council for the last 4 months?

 

SFx

[Saffronflowers]

BD - a bailiff is entitled to take a vehicle if it is needed to get to and from work, not if it is a works vehicle eg a sign written van etc.

 

SFx

[wildrob]

thanks for all the advice

spoke to the oft and they could not find anrew james on their list of bailiffs, but would not tell me what that means????

 

i also spoke to a solictor because i can get legal aid, and he will send them a letter in the mean time he said hide my car!!!

 

which i already knew from here.

 

so its wait and see, i want to repay the debt but at a level i can afford

 

cheers

[Bongo Dancer]

Companies House Public Register gives them as Andrew James Enforcement Ltd, SA1 5SW. Classification: Bailiffs. Latheron Chambers, 41, Mansel St, Swansea, West Glamorgan SA1 5SW. Tel: 01792 645544. Solicitors advice is good.

[chris600uk]

i asked for proof of visit as you must keep copys and full names of the bailiffs, he said that i was delaying it

 

Giving you information delays nothing - it sounds as if he has something to hide.

 

I would ring Andrew James enforcement on 01792 645544 and ask them for the name of the Bailiff that attended the levy on your car.

 

You then ring either 020 7210 0516 which TT tells us is no longer in use, but I've put it because that's the number that's being advertised, or ring OFT 020 7211 86081 (got this number off another post so haven't phoned it myself) give them the name of the bailiff and the firm he/she works for and they ought to be able to establish if a valid certificate is registered.

 

If no certificate - then the levy is worthless, not legal, never happened.

Edited October 18, 2008 by chris600uk
clarity

[wildrob]

hi thanks for your advice

 

i rang andrew james and asked for copies of visits, and the names of people who attended.

was told that im trying to delay!!!! WHAT ever that means

 

i researched my questions.

 

1) please show proof of visit

2) please give the names of the people who clamed to visit

3) i am unable to pay the amount in full

 

and was told im trying to delay and pay the full amount by mon or we will take your car. when i said i cant, it was we will take your car on mon, i have to work to pay the bills, no work, lose my house its that simple!!!!

 

and the cheeky ***************

hung up on me, he was very rude and would not listren to me.

 

i had no choice but to seek legal advice, which costs the tax payer and me money.

 

now if i paid the council £329, full amount, where would i stand with andrew james???? i would have to borrow the money

 

i phoned the oft and andrew james is not on there list, i asked what that means and was told to phone comsumer direct. i used the headed letter and gave full address, again no company on our list

 

does that mean the council has employed the wrong people?

 

cheers

Edited October 18, 2008 by wildrob

[Saffronflowers]

If you pay the £329 directly to the council then the liability order is satisfied and the bailiffs have to persue their charges like anyone else they have no bailiff rights to collect them they would need to go through all the legal shennanigans to get those rights again.

 

Dont pay the bailiff as they will take their fees and pay the balance to the council

 

SFx

[chris600uk]

i rang andrew james and asked for copies of visits, and the names of people who attended.

was told that im trying to delay!!!! WHAT ever that means

 

i researched my questions.

 

1) please show proof of visit

2) please give the names of the people who clamed to visit

3) i am unable to pay the amount in full

 

and was told im trying to delay and pay the full amount by mon or we will take your car. when i said i cant, it was we will take your car on mon, i have to work to pay the bills, no work, lose my house its that simple!!!!

 

and the cheeky ***************

hung up on me, he was very rude and would not listren to me

 

Oh no Rob, he was listening all right! He just didn't want to answer the questions, because he may know the answer.

 

SFx is right, if you pay the bailiff he take his money out first.

Edited October 18, 2008 by chris600uk
sorry, that was wrong

[chris600uk]

Don't forget that just because they've levied upon the car, that doesn't give them the right of entry - so you can ignore them if they turn up.

 

But you must challenge them in writing - phoning bailiffs is useless unless you are gathering information from them and preferably recording the conversation.

 

They MUST give you the information you have asked for.

 

So ask for it by email and hard copy posted recorded dely.

 

Read this post and you'll see what I mean http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/164158-bailiffs-have-taken-my.html

October 2008

 

Re: xxxxxxx Client reference xxxxxxxx 
Please understand that I am fully aware of my rights and you will not

gain peaceful entry to my home under any circumstances to levy goods.

I know the fees allowed under statute and when these fees can be applied.

 

Dear Sir/madam,

 

I have made two telephone calls in an attempt to establish the name of the bailiff who claims to have levied upon my car - on both occasions I have been abused and my reasonable request for information has been denied - this suggests that in fact your bailiff does not have a certificate and is attempting to charge fees unlawfully. And this as you know, is an offence under Section 2 and Section 4 of the Fraud Act 2006, and grounds for a complaint to the County Court under the Distress for Rent Rules 1988 or Form 4 complaint.

 

This account is in dispute because I believe your levy is wrong, and therefore your demand for payment is unlawful, as is your threat to remove my vehicle to cover the unlawfully demanded fee; I expect NO FURTHER ACTION to be taken until this situation is resolved and I expect you to provide a full breakdown of charges, including what the fee consists of (showing appropriate receipts if applicable), when they visited, the vehicle used, the name of the certified bailiff and the court at which he was certified, otherwise I am entitled to refuse to pay the fees.

 

If I do not receive the information that I have asked for by return of post or by electronic mail at xxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.com I will make a complaint to xxxxxxxx City Council and a regulation 46 complaint to the Magistrates Court which issued the liability order.

 

I have not refused to pay the Council Tax arrears.

I have not refused to pay reasonable fees that you are legally entitled to.

I am sending a copy of this letter to xxxxxxxx City Council

 

To reduce costs to you and to make it easier to respond to my request, I will accept contact by electronic mail at the email address shown above.

You will receive a hard copy of this message by recorded delivery.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

Or something like that, just alter it to suit

Edited October 18, 2008 by chris600uk
more corrections, not a good start to the day!

[wildrob]

thanks for all your advice, will pay the council on monday.

do i inform andrew james?

will the council accept the money because its been handed to andrew james?

[Bongo Dancer]

Dont need to inform the bailiff. Prepare a letter according to post #3 of this thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/164655-bailiff-threats-car-clamping.html and hand it to the bailiff. Pay the council online, do it now. Otherwise they have a propensity to decline payment saying "its in the hands of bailiffs.

[chris600uk]

although I would inform them simply to challenge the fees and put them on notice that you now know your rights and wont be pushed around

[wildrob]

paid the council full payment, done it online

wait and see what happens monday.

should i move my car????

also andrew james have upset me badly, what can i do about this.

would not listen, can they ask me for their fees?

[chris600uk]

Well strictly speaking, yes, but only those lawfully incurred up to you paying the council

 

That's why I'd challenge them, make em prove every thing was done by the book

[wildrob]

hi thanks very much for your advice.

 

i think i will need more lol

 

i have paid the council tax bill, online with the council.

 

but have not paid the bailiffs charges.

 

1st reasons i did ask for a copy's of vists and charges, but was told to whistle.

 

why should i pay when i think someone has lies, i dont think i know!!!

 

council tax bill paid, can the bailiffs still take my car?

visit due monday, have printed letter from council to show ive paid and one from here to say sod off lol

 

cheers

roc

[chris600uk]

council tax bill paid, can the bailiffs still take my car?

 

No, but if there are fees up to the point when you paid the council then the bailiffs are entitled to them - provided they were fees for work legally done, by certificated bailiffs with valid certificates.

 

But, they have no right to come round chasing their fees - they must prove that you owe them, just like any ordinary creditor.

 

If they can't prove it, they don't get paid.

Edited October 19, 2008 by chris600uk
grammar