Welcome/Cohens - case withdrawn ***WOO-HOO ***

[Prudence]

I'll try and get it done before lunch then! Isn't a CPR 31.14 the same as a SAR?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

No CPR is for information regarding specific document SAR is for the delivery

of ALL DATA right down to records of phone calls, and manual intervention on computer

records.ie. absolutely everything that has ever occurred.

All these Bl***Y abbreviations good job I am military we live on them:madgrin:

[Prudence]

Morning Brig, have PM'd you, Pru

[Prudence]

Hi Brig, I have received the SAR from Welcome - I'd so appeciate your help as to my next step. Many many thanks, Pru

[Prudence]

Hi Brig, on looking through my (huge) file I saw the last response in June to my detailed letter was marked "Final Response" (this was the 3rd "Final Response" to our complaint!) therefore please advise on the next step. What do I need to do with the Subject Access Request papers? Thanks very much & kind regards, Pru

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Pru, as you have the final response did they send

you the booklet on FOS, because I think your next course

of action is to make a complaint to the ombudsman asap.

 

Brig.

[Prudence]

Hi All,

I'm quite shocked - been down to the County Court today to try and get a copy of a notice of discontinuance in relation to Welscum Fin from 2 years ago and... the file had been destroyed! I said but don't you have to keep papers for six years like everyone else and they said no they don't!! Just rang ICO but they don't know either!!!!! Suggested I ring HMCS. Does anyone know if there's legislation for this? Many thanks, Pru

[Prudence]

This is unbelieveable! I have tried a couple of other Court numbers and nobody seems to know!! Suggest I ring Citizens Advice Bureau. Can anyone help me with this please?

[rebel11]

Hi pru

 

If that is true that is silly. I would have thought the standard 6 years, infact it should be longer.

 

Here are some links:- http://www.justice.gov.uk/about/hmcts/index.htm

 

http://judicialcomplaints.judiciary.gov.uk/links/links.htm

 

http://www.yourrights.org.uk/get-advice/

[Prudence]

Thank you rebel1. Been all over on the Justice site but didn't get anywhere. Trying the Judicial Complaints now, will let you know.

[Prudence]

Suggested I write to Court Manager to get response in writing which I will do. Must say, I am amazed at this.

[Prudence]

Anyone know how long they must keep their records?

[AndyOrch]

Hi Pru

 

Because the claim was discontinued I would have thought that retention would be minimal. (particularly at County Court level) Have you tried the Sol that represented the claim? You could make a request under the FOI (freedom of information Act) FOI has changed things and records are no longer called 'closed' in court action.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Prudence]

Thank you Andy. I haven't tried the Solicitors (Cohens) - I can't imagine they will be particularly forthcoming in supplying a copy when they never replied to our correspondence pre-judgement, nor directions from the Court after the judgement being set aside. Who would the FOI request go to and why is it so difficult to find out what are the legislative requirements of a Court in keeping records? No one can seem to give me a definite answer!

[Prudence]

OK - we've had it with WF - filling in the claim forms for Pt 8 DPA and an N1 for PPI claim.

Any help on this would be much appreciated as I need it!

In the details of claim - I heard from someone here that WF would have had no authority to assign the account (they passed it onto MKRR/Raven/TRadepro AFTER they/Howard Cohen had Discontinued the Claim against us). Is there any legislation I can quote on my claim form that backs this up please?

[Prudence]

Anyone able to answer my last post above please? Just need to get these forms completed. Many thanks, P

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Hi Pru, I don't think that discontinuing

an action prevents the commencement

of new proceedings or the sale or assignment

of the debt, as no judgement has been made

on the validity of the contract.

[car2403]

CPR prevents a party that has discontinued from bringing another claim on materially the same basis without the permission of the Court - CPR 38.7

 

Did you defend the original claim?

 

On what basis was it brought?

 

Did they disclose their reasoning for discontinuing?

 

Why are you using Part 8 for your DPA claim?

 

What type of agreement is this? Personal loan, HP, etc?

[Prudence]

CPR prevents a party that has discontinued from bringing another claim on materially the same basis without the permission of the Court - CPR 38.7

 

Did you defend the original claim?

 

On what basis was it brought?

 

Did they disclose their reasoning for discontinuing?

 

Why are you using Part 8 for your DPA claim?

 

What type of agreement is this? Personal loan, HP, etc?

 

Thank you so much for your reply. My threads on this throughout the process are below, though I'm sure you won't have time to go through them all but just in case.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?156368-Please-Help-with-Setting-Judgement-Aside-Welcome-Finance

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?163222-Welcome-Cohens-case-withdrawn-***WOO-HOO-***

 

The judgement was a very hasty one through Northampton Co Court despite WElcome' Solciitors Howard Cohen, assuring us that things had been put on hold as we were in dispute. A year later, after my researching on the internet & finding CAG, I decided to try and fight back. We got the judgment set aside on the grounds that the Credit Agreement was not headed correctly (says Credit AGreement at the top and Hire Purchase AGreement at the bottom) and the PPI was included with the amount of credit. We then submitted a Defence to include the above, also a faulty DEfault Notice (re dates).

 

They did not disclose their reason for discontinuing, though in the Subject ACcess request paperwork I recently received there is written correspondence between them & their legal people saying that would be uneconomical to continue.

 

We are using a Part 8 because we have suffered financially because of their actions and therefore are also making a claim for damages. WE are making a separate claim for PPI.

 

Any advice you can offer would be much appreciated.

[car2403]

We got the judgment set aside on the grounds that the Credit Agreement was not headed correctly (says Credit AGreement at the top and Hire Purchase AGreement at the bottom) and the PPI was included with the amount of credit. We then submitted a Defence to include the above, also a faulty DEfault Notice (re dates).

 

Yes, this would make it unenforceable on it's own, anyway.

 

They did not disclose their reason for discontinuing, though in the Subject ACcess request paperwork I recently received there is written correspondence between them & their legal people saying that would be uneconomical to continue.

 

Wow, this is going to prove very useful indeed.

 

We are using a Part 8 because we have suffered financially because of their actions and therefore are also making a claim for damages. WE are making a separate claim for PPI.

 

I think you're making a mistake using Part 8 - Part 8 is for non-monetary claims, where something other than money is being claimed. In your case this would be the specific performance of removing the data, but if you're wanting to claim for PPI/damage to credit reputation, etc, then it needs to go on the Part 7 track. In fact, I'd highly recommend that you stick to Part 7, as your claim is likely to end up on the small claims track, where costs are limited. If you continue along the Part 8 track, then go on to lose, (unlikely, based on what you've said, but not impossible, neither) then you may face a bill for unlimited costs.

 

Have you issued the claim yet? If so, and it's on Part 8, I'd highly recommend that you apply to the Court to have it moved to Part 7, because of the costs issue.

 

If you haven't issued the claim, yet, have you considered what your POC is going to be?

 

I think, because the issues in this claim are so complex, (in legal terms - it's quite straight forward, factually) there's a danger that you will be moved to the fast track. Costs are something that need considering here.

 

When will this negative info disappear from your CRA file? If it's within the next 12 months, it may actually be easier to just wait for it to drop off. If it's longer, or is causing you specific pain, then I can totally see why you'd want to pursue this further.

 

I'd be tempted to give them one more chance, here. What you need to do is construct a huge, long letter, outlining all the details of your complaint and the action that you want to be taken. You then need to send the LBA if they don't respond positively. This time, though, you need to be ready to follow through - they may not budge, as you've sent complaints/LBA's before and not followed through with them. Think carefully about what it is you want and what you need to do to get then, then work backwards in your plan from there.

 

Like Brig, I think getting to "someone" with sense at Welcome will get a result. Unlike Brig, though, I don't think you will find that "someone"...

 

There's loads of 'Welcome experts' on CAG, BTW, so I'm moving your thread somewhere more appropriate to see if we can catch their attention also...

[Prudence]

Yes, this would make it unenforceable on it's own, anyway.

 

 

 

Wow, this is going to prove very useful indeed.

 

 

 

I think you're making a mistake using Part 8 - Part 8 is for non-monetary claims, where something other than money is being claimed. In your case this would be the specific performance of removing the data, but if you're wanting to claim for PPI/damage to credit reputation, etc, then it needs to go on the Part 7 track. In fact, I'd highly recommend that you stick to Part 7, as your claim is likely to end up on the small claims track, where costs are limited. If you continue along the Part 8 track, then go on to lose, (unlikely, based on what you've said, but not impossible, neither) then you may face a bill for unlimited costs.

 

Have you issued the claim yet? If so, and it's on Part 8, I'd highly recommend that you apply to the Court to have it moved to Part 7, because of the costs issue.

 

If you haven't issued the claim, yet, have you considered what your POC is going to be?

 

I think, because the issues in this claim are so complex, (in legal terms - it's quite straight forward, factually) there's a danger that you will be moved to the fast track. Costs are something that need considering here.

 

When will this negative info disappear from your CRA file? If it's within the next 12 months, it may actually be easier to just wait for it to drop off. If it's longer, or is causing you specific pain, then I can totally see why you'd want to pursue this further.

 

I'd be tempted to give them one more chance, here. What you need to do is construct a huge, long letter, outlining all the details of your complaint and the action that you want to be taken. You then need to send the LBA if they don't respond positively. This time, though, you need to be ready to follow through - they may not budge, as you've sent complaints/LBA's before and not followed through with them. Think carefully about what it is you want and what you need to do to get then, then work backwards in your plan from there.

 

Like Brig, I think getting to "someone" with sense at Welcome will get a result. Unlike Brig, though, I don't think you will find that "someone"...

 

There's loads of 'Welcome experts' on CAG, BTW, so I'm moving your thread somewhere more appropriate to see if we can catch their attention also...

 

Thankyou for all of that, so much appreciate it. I thought you could go for Part 8 Plus Unliquidated Damages but must have got my wires crossed.

 

Yes, we did wonder about the data dropping off our credit report but I assume that the six years will go from where they marked the account "settled" (and marked "debt assigned") in 2007 which means waiting until mid 2013. We can't wait that long, getting older and need to make progress asap!

 

We sent them the latest long letter back in May, well actually they were copied into my letter to the 3 CRAs and I quoted Section 10 of the DPA. Welcome responded with another of their Final Response letters (I think about the third in all). Is it still necessary to write yet again to them?

[car2403]

We sent them the latest long letter back in May, well actually they were copied into my letter to the 3 CRAs and I quoted Section 10 of the DPA. Welcome responded with another of their Final Response letters (I think about the third in all). Is it still necessary to write yet again to them?

 

Well, no, but I'd resend your LBA and give a reasonable time to respond - the key is to not being seen to be unreasonable, but the LBA needs to be timed effectively. If you wrote in May and didn't follow through at the time, another LBA is in order, but keep it brief and refer to the previous correspondance and what they need to do to comply this time.

 

There is some big risk here - it will take 6 months to come to Court. If you lose, you can appeal, but a lost appeal would cost dearly and take a significant time. The timescales for resolution of this against the CRA file info dropping off needs some thought, I think. Now, if you had 4 years for this to run, then...

[Prudence]

Received reply from LBA and as suspected, no change in their position. So.... gotta be court now!!!

[Prudence]

Wrote to the Court Manager by Rec Del as advised, no reply!! Been given another address in Petty France to address the question/complaint.

[rebel11]

http://www.justice.gov.uk/global/contacts/moj/index.htm

 

Wrote to the Court Manager by Rec Del as advised, no reply!! Been given another address in Petty France to address the question/complaint.