SB100 v MBNA ( Link have issued proceedings )

[citizenB]

No CCA from the CCA request, and no CCA with the SARS either...

 

Thanks

SB:)

 

Then they are in default of one (CCA request) and if they are outside of the 40 days on the SAR, you can make an official complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

[SB100]

They did actually respond to the SAR, but all that they sent was basically the activity on the account over the last six years- ie payments received and money spent, plus one or two late charges and interest.

 

Nothing else whatsoever. No agreement, no notes etc.

 

I suspect (and hope) they may be in difficulty...

[angel_1]

thanks for the click SB100

 

i suspect they dont have much more then for you, i had loads of stuff so not sure what the next position is for you to action

 

im sure others more experienced will come along to give you some help

 

take care in the meantime, ill have a hunt around too if i come across anything useful, ill let you know

 

ciao for now maz

[citizenB]

They did actually respond to the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), but all that they sent was basically the activity on the account over the last six years- ie payments received and money spent, plus one or two late charges and interest.

 

Nothing else whatsoever. No agreement, no notes etc.

 

I suspect (and hope) they may be in difficulty...

 

There isnt a great deal they can do without the agreement and if the account is older than 6 years, they are going to have a hard job proving the brought forward balance on the first statement they have supplied you with

[SB100]

I'll see how they respond to the 'account in dispute' letter.... fingers crossed. I've just done the same with a couple of other cards, most of which are well over 10 years old.

[SB100]

Ok, I didn't expect the response I received yesterday...

 

I have my own views on this, but what do you think... enforceable or not?

 

 

 

• It clearly states Application
  
• The box on the right, towards the bottom, which reads 'Please issue me an MBNA Credit Card etc' isn't ticked.
  
• The document looks like its been reduced in size- looking at my signature (which I've blanked out) and comparing it with the 'other' signature there is a significant difference in size. Looks to me like the signature that appears on it (reads Anne Y Hogan or something?) has been put on to the printed copy (reduced size) raher than the original.
  
• There are some t&c's on the next sheet, which may have been printed on the reverse, but the document I've posted appears to be the full front page.
  

[SB100]

[angel_1]

HIYA sb100

 

well i just wanted to say hi and ive seen your scans, but really i dont know

i will be interested in what the experts in our midst make of it, at least yours are legible,

 

sure it looks like an application but i still get confused by what is presented to us by these creditors,

 

will check later for any replies, but lets keep fingers crossed its one that you can throw away,,,,lol

 

ciao keep positive MAZ:)

[SB100]

Thanks Maz

[citizenB]

SB, you might find posts 134 and 135 by surfaceagentx20 and pt2537 useful .. in the following link:D in post 134 you need to look at (d)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/168022-brw-particularly-nasty-bank-7.html#post1825132

[SB100]

So the word 'card' being omitted from the title could be important?

 

Thanks.

[citizenB]

So the word 'card' being omitted from the title could be important?

 

Thanks.

 

 

Please dont take this as gospel, get it confirmed by either x20 or pt2537, but the way I read their posts is.. if the company want an Application form to be treated as an Agreement, then they should have the proper headings....

[lexis200]

But it does state this (2) If none of the headings in 1(a) to (d) above

are applicable a heading in the following form of

words--"Credit Agreement regulated by the

Consumer Credit Act 1974". which I'd bet they'd argue covered it?

[SB100]

probably....

[citizenB]

It might be a good idea to pm ChalkitUp, he has a data base of MBNA documents and might be able to offer you some advice.

 

One thing I do note on the alleged terms and conditions is

 

"3:. Within 26 days after the relevant statement date you must make either the minimum payment shown on the statement or any larger payment chosen by you unless we allow a payment holiday under condition 9.4. "

 

 

Ummm, there is no condition 9.4 :?

 

similarly in

 

8: Reference is made to 8.11

 

10:. They refer to condition 9.1, again there is no condition 9.1

 

10 ©. They refer to condition 14.1.. where is that ?

Edited November 25, 2008 by citizenB

[lexis200]

Nice spot CB!

[Chalkitup]

Hello CitizenB,

 

As in some of their other "agreements" MBNA sort of cover themselves for the missing conditions by their statement just before paragraph 1 which says .....

"Set out in paragraph 1-12 below are conditions 8 and 9 of the MBNA Credit Card Terms and Conditions of use. The other conditions referred to in those paragraphs and the applicable definitions can be found in those Terms and Conditions".

 

This is a very good quality copy!!! One of the best I have seen. Can not find a link on page one to the prescribed terms which I presume MBNA are trying to imply are printed on the reverse.

 

You need to establish a link to the prescribed terms .... My gut feeling is that the prescribed terms will not have been on the reverse of the original!!

 

 

Onwards and Upwards

 

Chalkitup

[SB100]

Hi Chalkitup. Thanks for your input- I'm very grateful.

 

I'm not able to see any link on page one either. They've printed the t&c's on the reverse of the application, but there's no 'pto' reference telling you the terms and conditions are on the reverse.

[SB100]

Ok, so I'm going to have to respond. Any ideas?

 

Was thinking about something like this;

 

Thank you for your letter and copy of my original application form which I received...

 

I note that this is an application form and not an agreement. For an application form to be treated as and agreement the wording in the title must one of the following...

(and use the info pointed to on the other thread).

 

Furthermore, I note that you have photocopied some terms and conditions on to the reverse of the application form. There is, however, no evidence that this is, in fact, from the reverse side of the application form- nor is there any reference that there are terms and conditions on the reverse.

 

I also note that several of the conditions refer to other conditions, but list references that do not exist in your terms and conditions

(as kindly noted by chalkitup above)

.

Something like that anyway- any help gratefully received!

[citizenB]

I think I am slightly out of my depth with this SB. Hopefully someone with more knowledge will pop in and give their opinion for you.

[SB100]

No worries, thanks for your help

[SB100]

Hi,

 

This is posted in the MBNA forum, but I need to respond and could do with some advice if you'd be so kind...

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/mbna/163050-sb100-mbna-2.html#post1826756

 

Thanks

[rory32]

The salient point is that the prescribed terms must be contained within the four corners of the agreement. They can not be contained in another document entitled terms and conditions.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello SB100!

 

There's something very, very, very suspect about the alleged Agreement you have posted above in:

 

Post #31

 

and

 

Post #32

 

If you look at the bleed-through of one to the other, they do not, by any stretch of the imagination, line up with each other.

 

This looks to be a very poor lash up document. They've just added Terms to the back to try and make you think they were there on the Original.

 

If they go anywhere near Court with this, then hit them with a CPR 31.14 Request to make a Physical Inspection.

 

Nice try MBNA, better luck next time.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[cosalt]

I received an almost identical CCA today, see 'cosalt v mbna' but the back of mine has a different titlec on the back.

 

Waiting for someone to take a look at mine, hopefully we may be able to help each other ?