Tiscali - again...

[BreadAndButter]

I've not long signed up to Tiscali, and although the service has been good setting up (goot siemens kit, quick turnaround, BT line put in for free to get away from the ntl dictatorship etc.) I am getting shockingly bad speeds in peak time, namely 6pm-11pm.

 

IS there anything I can do? They breech any contract terms of service?

I get 6+mb all the other times of day but the time I'm actually home, it's rubbish!

 

I was just glad to get a BT line back, and I like the solid wireless kit etc. but the speed it terrible...

[locutus]

The problem here is the wording of the package... it's always "up to 8 meg" or whatever speed they advertised. Unfortunatly as you are locked into term you are at their mercy... still worth a call tho, see if they can do any better!

[BreadAndButter]

I get replies from them, but its obviously an email to fob users off, as its simply a whole page of tasks to perform "Ping google, give ms results, ping this plac,e ping that, turn the router off, re-ping, update ie7, etc etc.

could be sound advice but I know my line, its 4mb+ outside of 6pm-22:30pm, inside thsi tiem its completely throttled to less than 500k.

 

I was getting 0.3k last night to the point where it was not fit for purpose - by this i mean I couldnt connect to ANY xbox live games, as it woudl time out and boot me off the servers!

 

Who can i complain to - offcom? Trading standard?

Im in an 18 month contract.... with 17 to go!

[locutus]

Neither ofcom or TS will do much as they supplied it saying "up to" whatever speed. It's an absolute con but unfortunately they have it covered in the T&C.

 

Your best course of action is to follow their advice and try to sort it. I'd also ask them if they're "throttling" your speed at these times.

[robin9342]

I'm not so sure. I believe the "up to 8mb" refers to the connection between the exchange and the customer, in other words, what the line is capable of. In the case of my "up to 8mb", my router indicates a connection speed of 7.6mb 24 hours a day.

 

Of course, many things affect the actual speed and there is a general slow down in peak periods. However, my ISP does not deliberately throttle my connection (except peer to peer, but thats a different story!). In the case of the OP, it can be proven that Tiscali are directly responsible for the poor download speeds. I have to say this is nothing unusual for Tiscali: they've been doing this for years - I had a 512k broadband from them and most evenings it slowed down to less than dial-up speeds.

 

Tiscali blamed BT, but BT sent an engineer who proved that the line speed was near 512k and therefore Tiscali were to blame. Needless to say, I left them and refused to pay the remainder of the contract. I moved to Pipex (ironic, as they are now the same company) and the problem went away.

[BreadAndButter]

....and so Newsgroups from Giganews!

 

No need for P2P

[wildheart83]

Having read through a lot of the ofcom site, they do provide guidance and help if you're regularly having slow internet speed, it's worth having a look on there.

[Melstin]

Pete

 

Run a few tests from here:

 

Speedtest.net - The Global Broadband Speed Test

 

Do it several times at different times of the day just to get the picture.

 

If the download speed for your line is too low, BT might be able to increase it, but this might cause instability.

 

Broadband speeds are a very big con and they can vary greatly depending on the area you live. Big reduction of speed at certain times are normal.

[robin9342]

You need to realise that ISPs advertise as "up to" for a good reason. The maximum speed is totally dependant on line length and quality. The further you are away from the exchange, the lower your speed will be. In some cases, the line quality will further reduce the speed. Both these factors are out of the control of the ISP and they cannot, therefore guarantee a speed. So, its not necessarily a con. (read the "however" below for the possible con)

 

You can get an estimate of your maximum speed on BTs website. You can find your connected speed by checking your router. This will tell you the maximum you can expect. Remember that the exchange automatically checks and adjust the speed to give the best stability, so your connected speed may vary over time.

 

However, the ISPs DO have control over the speed of their own networks. Frequently, this is where you will experience slowdowns. Of course, the more people using the internet at a given time, the slower it will be and this applies to ALL ISPs. The difference between "fast" and "slow" ISPs comes down to two main factors 1) How much bandwidth the ISP has invested in. Too little and your speed will be slow. "Too much" and you will pay much more for the service, so they have to get the balance right. Many don't!!

2) The ISPs throttling policy. ISPs can deliberately slow down your connection. Typically, they will do this if they see that you are "abusing" the service by downloading lots of data in peak times. This includes so-called unlimited services and is written into the terms and conditions as a fair use policy.

 

Unfortunately, some ISPs do not publish what they consider to be fair use and many heavy users fall foul of the policy which is unfair.

 

ISPs can also control your speed dependant on the type of internet traffic. This happened to me with BT. Ordinary internet usage was fast all of the time. However, BT now throttles P2P (file sharing) traffic between 5pm and 11pm. There is good reason for this: P2P is one of the most bandwidth hungry uses of the internet. BT say that they restrict P2P to 15% of normal speed at peak times. In my case, P2P dropped to about 0.1%, making it unuseable.

 

I complained and BT agreed that they could no longer provide the service I was paying for (due to their excessive P2P throttling) and allowed me to end the contract without penalty!

[legalpickle]

Whilst the other posters are partially right, they are not entirely right.

 

I have had hell with many ISP's and it's not been my lines. Where a service of 3.6mbps is provided you don't have a claim.

 

But, "up to 8mbps" implies that the service provided will be above the service below that. So if you have "up to 8mbps", it is an implied term that it will definitely be "more than 2mbps". If it isn't, then you are entitled to the difference between the value of the two services.

 

For example, with Demon [Thus PLC], I had signed up for "up to 8mbps" but never got above 512kbps, so I sued them for the difference between the cost of their service and the cost of the lowest available "up to 512kbps" service out there. They - as did Tiscali, BE, UK Online, One.tel [TalkTalk], TalkTalk [again], Wanadoo [Orange] & BT before them settled!

 

If you write back and can verify that it's not a line error, I can try and help you with suing these idiots.

[robin9342]

Not entirely true! If you have a particularly long line, or poor quality line, the speed can drop below 2mbps. This is a physical limitation and the ISP has no control over this. Thats why they advertise "up to 8mbps". There is no legal remedy for this problem.

 

If, however, it can be proved that the poor speed is due to the ISP's network, then you can take action. If your router/modem shows a connected speed of, say, 5mbps but you only get 512kbps, then that is the ISP's fault.

 

Sometimes, an ISP can limit the connection speed of the router. For example, your neighbour gets 7mbps, but your router shows 1mbps. If you suspect this is the case, but the ISP denies it, then you need a BT engineer to measure the line speed. If it shows that your line can support a higher speed, then you have a case.

[legalpickle]

Not entirely true! If you have a particularly long line, or poor quality line, the speed can drop below 2mbps. This is a physical limitation and the ISP has no control over this. Thats why they advertise "up to 8mbps". There is no legal remedy for this problem.

 

If, however, it can be proved that the poor speed is due to the ISP's network, then you can take action. If your router/modem shows a connected speed of, say, 5mbps but you only get 512kbps, then that is the ISP's fault.

 

Sometimes, an ISP can limit the connection speed of the router. For example, your neighbour gets 7mbps, but your router shows 1mbps. If you suspect this is the case, but the ISP denies it, then you need a BT engineer to measure the line speed. If it shows that your line can support a higher speed, then you have a case.

Robin: Firstly, the odds of that actually happening unless the line is faulty is low.

 

Secondly, I am stating the law. If the odds are the provider cannot provide a service above 2mbps, then they must advise the customer of that and the customer must have the right to downgrade. You are defending these crooks allowing them to rip off customers - something that shouldn't be done on a meant-to-be-Consumer-friendly-forum like CAG.

 

You don't need a BT engineer to measure the speed and you don't need to go through hell to get this done. The burden of proof is on the ISP to prove that it is not their - or BT Openreach & Wholesale's [who supply them] - fault.

 

If your speeds are consistently below 2mbps, then the ISP has not provided the promised service, providing of course you have done the usual steps to make sure it's not your equipment - replace the cables and microfilter, restart all equipment & disconnect all other equipment.

[robin9342]

It would appear that you really do not have a proper technical understanding of how broadband works. All copper pair telephone lines have a physical limit on speed. That limit varies according to line length and quality. ISP's DO NOT have any control over these factors.

 

If you are unfortunate enough to live some distance from the exchange and/or have a poor quality line, then your speed will be reduced. It is not that unusual to see lines that can only support 2mbps. As the ISP has absolutely no control over this, then they cannot be legally held accountable. They are NOT ripping off customers in this case. They never promised to provide above 2mbps in the first place!!

 

If, however, the line can support higher speeds, but the ISP's network is the cause of the poor speed, then they can be held accountable because then they would be ripping off customers. However, you may need BT's assistance in order to make your case if the ISP denies responsibility. I am not defending ISP's, I am simply stating facts.

 

Posts that incorrectly state the technical issues are also "something that shouldn't be done on a meant-to-be-Consumer-friendly-forum like CAG"

 

To qualify my opinion, I have 15 years experience as a BT engineer with emphasis on data provision and 10 years experience as an IT specialist.

[legalpickle]

It would appear that you really do not have a proper technical understanding of how broadband works. All copper pair telephone lines have a physical limit on speed. That limit varies according to line length and quality. ISP's DO NOT have any control over these factors.

 

If you are unfortunate enough to live some distance from the exchange and/or have a poor quality line, then your speed will be reduced. It is not that unusual to see lines that can only support 2mbps. As the ISP has absolutely no control over this, then they cannot be legally held accountable. They are NOT ripping off customers in this case. They never promised to provide above 2mbps in the first place!!

 

If, however, the line can support higher speeds, but the ISP's network is the cause of the poor speed, then they can be held accountable because then they would be ripping off customers. However, you may need BT's assistance in order to make your case if the ISP denies responsibility. I am not defending ISP's, I am simply stating facts.

 

Posts that incorrectly state the technical issues are also "something that shouldn't be done on a meant-to-be-Consumer-friendly-forum like CAG"

 

To qualify my opinion, I have 15 years experience as a BT engineer with emphasis on data provision and 10 years experience as an IT specialist.

You are misreading and ignoring my posts.

 

BT and all providers can provide an estimate of the speed that can be given on a line before connections to broadband are done - providing of course the line is active for phone calls.

 

If they take on an "up to 8mbps", that means they are stating that the customer could get anything from 2mbps to 8mbps. If the line can't handle that the contract was misrepresented.

 

If I have a line that I subscribe to "up to 8mbps" broadband on and get only 1.8mbps, I will get that speed on an "up to 2mbps" service as well.

 

So it is irrelevant if the distance restricts the speed - they should not have sold a contract that could not realistically be kept to!

[Conniff]

It can't be a line problem as the op is getting 6+ at other than the evening.

 

I get 6+mb all the other times of day but the time I'm actually home, it's rubbish!

[robin9342]

You are misreading and ignoring my posts.

 

BT and all providers can provide an estimate of the speed that can be given on a line before connections to broadband are done - providing of course the line is active for phone calls.

 

If they take on an "up to 8mbps", that means they are stating that the customer could get anything from 2mbps to 8mbps. If the line can't handle that the contract was misrepresented.

 

If I have a line that I subscribe to "up to 8mbps" broadband on and get only 1.8mbps, I will get that speed on an "up to 2mbps" service as well.

 

So it is irrelevant if the distance restricts the speed - they should not have sold a contract that could not realistically be kept to!

 

Correct. An estimate can be provided. It is, of course, only an estimate and based on BTs own data. You can and should look up this estimate yourself on BTs website. It does not, however, form part of the contract.

 

ISPs are not obliged to provide an "up to 2mbps" service. For example, BT don't, but Sky do. That is a business decision.

 

The 1.8mbps example you give is still "up to 8mbps". I disagree that the contract has been misrepresented if this is due solely to the line length/quality.

[robin9342]

It can't be a line problem as the op is getting 6+ at other than the evening.

Yes, in the OP's case its highly likely that Tiscali are at fault and the OP may well be able to take action against them.

[Conniff]

They have a fair use policy so what is the op doing during the evening, he dosn't say, he may be throttled because of the amount being downloaded.