G E Money and Secret Commissions

[pt2537]

Hi all , seems like G E are good at keeping everyone at bay , I am ready to challenge them again , on this secret commission , forget the S.A.R requests or even expect to see a underwriters sheet, I have talked with a Solicitor and he put it as simple as this ,

 

DID YOU USE A BROKER ? YES

 

DOES IT STATE ON YOUR AGREEMENT AMOUNT OF COMMISSION ?NO

 

Then this is a Secret Commission

 

Forget the S.A.R requests or even expect to see Unerwriters Sheet ,

 

Legal Proceedings can commence straight away without the need to adhere to Protocol , as if a Secret Commission You will not be saddled with any costs at all , and if you prefer to use a Solicitor You can claim back your legal costs , play them at they own game ,

that is outrageous,

 

you cant go ramping off to court on this basis, it is nonsense to suggest otherwise

 

you need to know the quantum of the Claim and you need to know the extent of the commission so that you can ascertain if there are any statutory breaches of inter alia the Consumer Credit Act 1974. IF the commission is not properly set out on the agreement and the agreement is regulated, then you may well have enforcability issues arising out of the commission as a comms is a charge for credit in most circumstances.

 

Plus you need the underwriting sheet to be able to plead properly,

 

if you do and you go to court on the basis of a poor case then you are in trouble

 

and furthermore what about the rule in Henderson v Henderson??? how do you over come this?

 

you must have your facts first

[dadofholly]

PT is there a way of obtaining the underwriting sheet if it is refused - prior to commencing the claim?

 

I have tried to obtain one but it has been refused. I do have, however, copies of docs showing commisions paid. both from the broker and the OC. is that enough?

[michellej1]

You have Your view's PT , I have mine , so to say its outrageous, nonsense to suggest otherwise , I do not normally bite at things , but have you been on this side the coin , I have just finished a 12 month battle with them , and believe me when I say , You get nowhere fast playing by the rules , done it tried it got nowhere fast (hence restarting the fight )

 

do you think I was just going to march off to Court , and lodge a claim ,

 

I have all the evidence I need my friend , and as the onus on them to prove otherwise , lets see if underwriters sheets are produced this time round

 

Why do you think , so many threads just stop without further updates , not because we are all winners , I can tell You

 

but Hey its my neck on the line , and I would rather risk this then stick with G E Money , have tried the standard way , never worked , it is plain as day that I never paid a commission ,

 

So who did ?

 

 

that is outrageous,

 

you cant go ramping off to court on this basis, it is nonsense to suggest otherwise

 

you need to know the quantum of the Claim and you need to know the extent of the commission so that you can ascertain if there are any statutory breaches of inter alia the Consumer Credit Act 1974. IF the commission is not properly set out on the agreement and the agreement is regulated, then you may well have enforcability issues arising out of the commission as a comms is a charge for credit in most circumstances.

 

Plus you need the underwriting sheet to be able to plead properly,

 

if you do and you go to court on the basis of a poor case then you are in trouble

 

and furthermore what about the rule in Henderson v Henderson??? how do you over come this?

 

you must have your facts first

[michellej1]

Thanks Andrew but already have read it , have read till the cows come home ,

 

Also look at Imageview vs Kelvin Jack

[michellej1]

No chance at all, if you do not believe me read the threads , They will not even admit to the Courts that there is underwriters sheet

 

Seen and heard it first hand

 

PT is there a way of obtaining the underwriting sheet if it is refused - prior to commencing the claim?

 

I have tried to obtain one but it has been refused. I do have, however, copies of docs showing commisions paid. both from the broker and the OC. is that enough?

[pt2537]

With respect, we fight GE money daily,i can lay my hand on many underwriters sheets obtained under the pre action protocols and discovery applications.

 

were you just going to court to lodge a claim? i dont know, seemed like you were.

 

 

to say they wont admit an underwriting sheet exists is like saying the loan never happened, the sheet is a industry standard document which every finance house uses, you dont get a loan without one of some description

[michellej1]

PT , Eversheds totally deined an underwriters sheet exists, I understand fine well that it does , G E refused this in correspondence saying it never contain sensitive information hence not forwarding after 3.16 / 3.14 requests ,

 

So decided to go this way around things , tried all the protocol's , got me no where fast ,

 

thanks for your thoughts PT ,

[jacqui_o]

Michelle if it is an industry standard as others have said and they have refused to give it under the 31.16........ you say Eversheds denied its exsistance? doo yu have that in writing? if so go to the OFT, Trading Standards, the council of mortgage lenders......... esp if oyu have written confirmation they have made that claim.......

 

if it is an industry standard then the industry will react...

[michellej1]

Michelle if it is an industry standard as others have said and they have refused to give it under the 31.16........ you say Eversheds denied its exsistance? doo yu have that in writing? if so go to the OFT, Trading Standards, the council of mortgage lenders......... esp if oyu have written confirmation they have made that claim.......

 

if it is an industry standard then the industry will react...

 

They stated this in Court in front of a Judge , obviously I had a letter from G E why they refused as did not contain sensitive data , hard nut to crack

[dadofholly]

They stated this in Court in front of a Judge , obviously I had a letter from G E why they refused as did not contain sensitive data , hard nut to crack

 

Then that would be contempt of court - not good for them.

[HomerJSimpson]

Eversheds totally deined an underwriters sheet exists, ,

 

What is one of these then?

 

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5409/underwritingsheetsafe.jpg

 

Obviously I took the liberty of removing my personal data.

 

I would be happy to pm you a copy of the original if it would help your case.

 

HJS

[michellej1]

Hey , thanks Homer , just looking over FOS website , I have a copy of your Underwriters sheet from way back , my case stopped in August due to the loophole I referred to , I am ready to go again at these , how did you get on with your case ? need to refreshen up on all this , thanks again

best wishes

[andrew1]

What is one of these then?

 

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/5409/underwritingsheetsafe.jpg

 

Obviously I took the liberty of removing my personal data.

 

I would be happy to pm you a copy of the original if it would help your case.

 

HJS

 

Quote from MSE site from 2009....re Alabaster (CI)Limited t/a Ocean Finance just for the record as your Underwriting sheet shows Alabaster...:

 

this is apart off the letter i was sent from the people dealing with ocean finance stuff...........

 

we confirm that prior to 14/01/2005 Alabaster (c.i) limited ("Alabaster"), a company incorporated in jersery,was permitted, to use the name "ocean finance" in advertisements for the purpose of soliciting applications from the public for the granting of personal loans. Alabaster ceased trading on 31/12/2004, after which date all of the assets of Alabaster were distributed.

[maybelline]

how did this go? thanks

[michellej1]

Hi Folks

 

Well back again , but this time with some good news , I have been reading some old threads and these just seem to stop like this one ,

 

I was hopeing to hear of loads of victories and progress regarding this secret commission business

 

Would be great to hear how all are getting on , but will take some time to catch up on some threads,

 

Well hear is our great news which I hope will inspire others to continue the fight, We have now officially parted company with G E Money and rescinded the contract , in doing so we have removed the threat of repossession and their legal right to enforce the agreement ,

 

We have tested the strength of our arguements and informed our good friends we will be making no more payments or committing any acts which affirm the contract , we understand we can not recover any losses ,once we are aware of our rights to rescind the contract , so please accept that no payments is a rejection of the contract and that I am making you aware of my legal right to void this agreement

 

We are now in our 10th week after informing them of the above , we have not made any payments in this time , our friends are staying quiet, we have sent a second letter over a week ago , which I kindly informed them , that now the agreement is rescinded due to fraud , any loss sustained will be sought in damages,

 

As both lenders have suspended possession orders , if main lender take possession of my home I will seek the equity lost, which will be over £100,000 + (the difference in what my home is worth , to the amount owed on 1st charge)

As the unlawfull payments have played a part in current situation with main lender,

 

My plan seems to be working fine , but need a few thoughts on this , should I start a money claim for the total amount of payments made ? I state the agreement is rescinded, I am entitled to what I have paid out to G E Money

 

Also I have stated I will tender back the amount received, they still will not acknowledge ,

 

I have tried to find the protocol the lenders should adhere to , I came across the TILA (Truth In Lending Act) but believe this is U.S Law, it states lenders have 20 days from notice to rescind , to acknowledge , remove security interest , return monies paid ,

 

If not adhered to then , the agreement is still rescinded (void) security interest is still removed, monies and interest still owed, but obligation to pay back the principal amount is no longer a requirement ,

 

I have searched for the uk version / Acts , which would cover this , plus I read in earlier posts , that the principal amount would be gifted, is the precidented?

 

any thoughts on this will be appreciated ,

 

hope all are well , look forward to your replies , and if PT is about will be great to hear your thoughts on this

 

best wishes

[iconoclash]

Hiya - my only thought at the mo is : can you rescind a contract that has been sold to a third party?? ie dont GE and all their kind sell their assets on into securitisation etc? would that make any difference?

[maybelline]

michelle j1 - good luck with this:)

[michellej1]

Hiya - my only thought at the mo is : can you rescind a contract that has been sold to a third party?? ie dont GE and all their kind sell their assets on into securitisation etc? would that make any difference?

 

I believe that the 3rd party would also be buying they liabilities , correct me if I am wrong ,

 

Thanks Maybelline

[ro284]

Not anything significant to add to this very usefull Thread,except my good wishes to all who take them on! If there is anything guaranteed to affect my mental state, it,s G E Money! I truly wish there was a way to go elsewhere, but that is impossible now, I am sure there was a secret commission, to my broker. But all that is a mystery to me in my present state. The latest letter from them is that they will in future charge a monthly £40 administration fee. if I am late with my next payment! What they appear to do is add up all the missed payment ‘fines’ and add that to the interest, but state that these are arrears on the account! mine are now £271.75. However I note that GE money is on the list of lenders who may reduce interest for 2 years under the government scheme, but I would have no confidence using them for anything.regards Ro

[michellej1]

How to prove a secret commission without an underwriters sheet ,

 

Are you struggling to prove they is a secret commission tainting your agreement which if proven is classed as a fraudlent element making the agreement voidable?

 

Please look on your credit agreement , next to brokers name does it contain a figure ? if it does not state a figure , then you have not paid for the brokers services and proves that a secret commission was part of your transaction , which is deemed to be a fraudulant element which gives the principal the legal right to rescinder the contract

 

You do not need to request the underwriters sheet to prove your allegations , as the onus will be placed with the lender , and I find it hard to see how the lenders could explain that they did not pay a commission to the broker if the principal had not paid for these services as stated on the agreement , just a brokers name is a tell tale sign that the agreement has a fraudulant element which renders the agreement rescinded, void,terminated, unenforcable,

 

I know my take on things are different to others and have been told off a few times regarding my thoughts and approach to things , but if one way does not work then we must try another approach to acheive our objectives which is for me to part company with G E as I am not comfy or happy to continue this relationship which is built on fraud and deciet with a sole purpose to possess the property to maximumise profits , as no other reason to conduct business the way their do to seek unjust enrichment

 

where they is a will there is a way , hope you find yours and continue the fight

 

best wishes all

[frettful38]

Hi michellej1 does what if the amount of brokers fee is written on the agreement but not how much commission? Dose the amount of commission have to stated on the agreement?

[michellej1]

if brokers fee is stated on agreement then you will need to seek the underwriters sheet, to prove a commission was paid , if no fees stated that points to a secret commission , as if you have not paid brokers fees , who has? and was the commission bigger then the brokers fees , hence no need for fees , it can only be a good thing no fees displayed, as its only 1 of the 2 people involved in the transaction who needs to pay the broker in some form of way, if not you , then they is only the lenders left who could of possibly paided the broker,

 

proof of secret commission without the need of underwriters sheet,

[iconoclash]

Hi - I thought that the broker could be paid by both the lender and the customer - I had a mortgage that shows a fee paid by me to the broker and the SAR data arrived with lots of info redacted - it seemed that there was another fee involved but when i asked the FSA about that they seemed to think that there is no rule against it????

[42man]

They may have implied that an additional fee was paid but did you ever know the amount ? google Wilson vs Hurstanger and Kelvin Jack vs Imageview

[iconoclash]

HI - thanks. I have found an old document for the mortgage in question and its says:

Completion fee payable by client to lender £499. Completion fee payable by client to broker £2,995. Title Ins paybale by client to lender £150. Chaps fee by client to lender £45. Procuration/Commission fee payable by lender to broker £295. Procuration/Commission fee payable by lender to broker £2537.

 

so - this means that the brokers money was added to our mortgage as i never had 3k laying around to give to a saleman! is that right?