H.O.L Test case appeal. Judgement Declared. ***See Announcements***

[Bigdebtor]

I am going to ask HBOS to comment on their recent "ha ha - we won at SC - all of you punters lost along with the OFT lost" letter in the light of this new Scottoish Sheriff Court development. It will be interesting to see their response now!

 

BD

[emandcole]

Absolutely. The process here is perfectly clear as the burden is on the bank to prove what it has maintained all along. It is that shift which is critical and as banking charges are of course perfectly fair and more than reasonable the banks should be quite happy to roll out the proof that charging is entirely proportional.

 

I mean, it's not as if the process of refusing a payment is done automatically using a sophisticated array of software to complete the process in less than a second is it? If it were that simple it would be pretty cheap, perhaps a couple of quid at the most .

 

In reality I can only imagine the hugely laborious and time intensive task involved as the bank employee sits down with a groan, dips their quill into an ink well and pours over some dusty tome to start calculating the knock on effect of us paying the account a day late. All of that letter writing, licking the stamp, strolling down to the post office in the rain to send it to you. The list is pretty long, I think £30 is actually a bargain for the service they offer us .

 

Quite simply it's time the bankers put their (our) money where their mouth is. They've banged on long enough about what great value it is, how it's a service, how it's something we agreed to. They should have no difficulty proving us wrong eh?! This is going to be good.

[means2anend]

Sorry I ballsed up ..grrr!!!

Edited February 21, 2010 by means2anend
my eyes are going funny..

[rdm2006]

strolling down to the post office in the rain to send it to you. The list is pretty long, I think £30 is actually a bargain for the service they offer us .

 

Don't you mean "Braving snowy blizzards"

[fergal71]

rdm what will you eat if I am right?????

[hsbcfiddled]

Anyone see Martin Lewis column in the NOTW yesterday?

 

RISE UP AND FIGHT FOR YOUR FEE-DOM! | Says consumer revenge creator Martin Lewis | News Of The World

 

No mention of this latest development in there.

 

Thought he would have known about this if anyone did?

 

Thoughts?

[rdm2006]

rdm what will you eat if I am right?????

 

Chips - cant afford a hat lol

[kennyh]

Previously posted by emandcole

The process here is perfectly clear as the burden is on the bank to prove what it has maintained all along.

Is this only for s140A of CCA with those damned date limitations?

[Bigdebtor]

Anyone see Martin Lewis column in the NOTW yesterday?

 

RISE UP AND FIGHT FOR YOUR FEE-DOM! | Says consumer revenge creator Martin Lewis | News Of The World

 

No mention of this latest development in there.

 

Thought he would have known about this if anyone did?

 

Thoughts?

 

Why? He's just an annoying plonker journalist - a Talker - not a DOER. We need DOERS like CAGGERS and GLC to get it up em. Thank Goodness we are winning again now all the plonkers (FOS, OFT, FSA. MSE - see a 3-letter pattern?) have slinked off and left it to those of us who still have the b*lls for a fight!

 

BD

[hsbcfiddled]

Why? He's just an annoying plonker journalist - a Talker - not a DOER. We need DOERS like CAGGERS and GLC to get it up em. Thank Goodness we are winning again now all the plonkers (FOS, OFT, FSA. MSE - see a 3-letter pattern?) have slinked off and left it to those of us who still have the b*lls for a fight!

 

BD

 

Winning again? have I missed something?

[HSBCrusher]

Its very difficult not to get very excited about this news, it really is.

 

After all, were we not directed by the supreme court to try a different tack?

The banks have told us we have lost, and even I was beginning to doubt. (only just)

 

My hat is off to you Govan Law Centre, there is now a chink of hope, lets hope it proves to be the hole in the dam which then destroys the dam

[HSBCrusher]

Winning again? have I missed something?

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/oft-test-case-updates/248268-sheriff-puts-bank-scotland.html

[hsbcfiddled]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/oft-test-case-updates/248268-sheriff-puts-bank-scotland.html

 

Yeah Crusher I have read it.

It sounds like great news.

 

But WINNING AGAIN - oh no!

 

We were winning last time- three nil up against the bastards and we lost in the 97th minute when they were using Fergies watch.

 

I dont want WINNING - I want WON!

 

Like all of us on here I so want it to be true cos I am looking for £50k with compounded.

But until the cheque clears we have won SFA.

 

Sorry to dampen the fire.

[Bigdebtor]

Winning again? have I missed something?

 

The last poster just stole my scone - the GLC are winning for ALL of us in Scotland - which neither OFT nor MSE could ever have done.

 

BD

[hsbcfiddled]

The last poster just stole my scone - the GLC are winning for ALL of us in Scotland - which neither OFT nor MSE could ever have done.

 

BD

 

I accept your point re OFT.

 

But what exactly have you won in Scotland - thanks to GLC?

[HSBCrusher]

Yeah Crusher I have read it.

It sounds like great news.

 

But WINNING AGAIN - oh no!

 

We were winning last time- three nil up against the b*****ds and we lost in the 97th minute when they were using Fergies watch.

 

I dont want WINNING - I want WON!

 

Like all of us on here I so want it to be true cos I am looking for £50k with compounded.

But until the cheque clears we have won SFA.

 

Sorry to dampen the fire.

we need to keep things in perspective, yes agreed.

 

but this is (in my most humble opinion) in many ways a much better suited section of legislation than we were using before.

 

it was looking like we had been given a clear signal by the courts that they were not going to play ball with the consumer any more, that the establishment had won.

 

that perceived situation may (yes, may) have changed.

[hsbcfiddled]

we need to keep things in perspective, yes agreed.

 

but this is (in my most humble opinion) in many ways a much better suited section of legislation than we were using before.

 

it was looking like we had been given a clear signal by the courts that they were not going to play ball with the consumer any more, that the establishment had won.

 

that perceived situation may (yes, may) have changed.

 

Agreed 100% It sounds like a Golden Egg - I just hope it does hatch into a chicken nugget.

 

hsbcfiddled would like you all to know that he is ill - Still sore from being shafted by the SC.

[means2anend]

we need to keep things in perspective, yes agreed.

 

but this is (in my most humble opinion) in many ways a much better suited section of legislation than we were using before.

 

it was looking like we had been given a clear signal by the courts that they were not going to play ball with the consumer any more, that the establishment had won.

 

that perceived situation may (yes, may) have changed.

 

There is already in existence several case law within the EU that puts the burden on the party that has drafted the unfair terms....mmmm!!!

 

m2ae8-)

[Bigdebtor]

Maybe the EU and the Scottish Sheriffs are telling the English Establishment that "enough is enough" and the consumer must come first?

 

BD

[kennyh]

Posted by Means2anend

There is already in existence several case law within the EU that puts the burden on the party that has drafted the unfair terms....mmmm!!!

 

Questions

i. whereabouts and

ii can we deploy it as part of our court bundle

Edited February 22, 2010 by kennyh
spelling-again!!

[means2anend]

Posted by Means2anend

 

Questions

i. whereabouts and

ii can we deploy it as part of our court bundle

 

 

Yup

 

I'll get a couple up for you tomorrow..As far as I can remember they were posted upon other threads about a week after the SC Judgement.

 

As far as I can remember the fact that ''the Court of it's own motion'' was encouraged by the ECJ where the National Court had before it all the facts that it reasonably needed in order to dispose of the case without making preliminary rulings on interpretation to the ECJ

 

The 2 cases I remember vaguely involved one where an unfair jurisdictional clause was drafted in advance by a businessman and the other was where an unfair term was drafted in advance in a telephone contract by a telecommunications company without any input or pre-negotiations by the innocent party whom both went on to win in those separate cases.

 

I think the telephone case was a Hungarian case and the other was a Portugese case

 

And now that the Banks in Scotland are put to proof that the charges are not unfair it is only a small step away that these cases could be used and a small step away that once there is favourable judicial authority albeit obiter and of a different jurisdiction it will be the REASONING behind the decision that will determine whether that small step will include stepping over the border.

 

m2ae

Edited February 22, 2010 by means2anend

[kennyh]

means2anend,

Respect

A scholar with a rather special memory. Should we get a 'result' I shall be honoured to buy you a pint probably with lunch attached.

[means2anend]

means2anend,

Respect

A scholar with a rather special memory. Should we get a 'result' I shall be honoured to buy you a pint probably with lunch attached.

 

Actually RDM on the sSHerriff thread has posted the link and reminded me that it was me that posted it on this thread at post 4611 and look at Yourbank on 4612

 

In the light of the events in Scotland these cases now take on a more important meaning

 

m2ae

[means2anend]

links to come

 

Here are the links

http://lawstudentforum.co.uk/eu-law/4593-unfair-contract-terms-pannon-v-gyorfi-2009-c-243-09-a.html

 

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:62008J0243:EN:HTML

 

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:61998J0240:EN:HTML

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8528209.stm

 

the BBC link is about bank spokesperson in relation to new bank charges being threatened again from tonights news.

Rgds

 

m2ae

Edited February 23, 2010 by means2anend

[kennyh]

means2anend - I thank you very much