Advice Please. MBNA (Alliance & Leicester) Credit Card

[KAR22]

I’ve been on a DMP since September 06 and all of my creditors bar MBNA have frozen the interest. The last letter I sent to them was ‘freeze interest or take me to court’, this was signed for on 30/1/08. I have since rang them on numerous occasions but cannot seem to get them to give me an answer to my letter. They say that they will not freeze interest as the reduced payment offered is not pro rata. It was been worked out by the Debt Management Company in 2006 so the offered payment wont be pro rata now as I now owe them more than I did in 2006 but have reduced the other outstanding balances. I have tried to explain this but they are just not interested.

I am at the end of my tether now.

Any advice on my next step please?

[dpick]

Right MBNA are right prats they will ignore your letters and on the phone will lie and bully to get you to make a payment so the first thing you need to do is check if they have a valid agreement for your card.

 

 

 

Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner

 

The first thing you should do is send them a CCA request recorded delivery for proof of the date they received it (follow link letter N ) there is a £1 fee for the CCA request. If they don't have an agreement, or do not provide you with true copy of your original credit agreement then the debt is unenforceable (if they send you an "agreement"post it for the experts to check) include a line in capitals to say ACCOUT IN DISPUTE in your CCA request then you are putting the account into dispute and there are very specific rules regarding disputed accounts. You should also include in your CCA request a copy of the telephone harassment letter and that any further contact by telephone will be considered harassment and reported to the relevant authorities.

 

Link to harassment letter

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/37006-harassment-telephone-response-letter.html

 

DON'T SPEAK TO THESE PEOPLE ON THE PHONE

 

If you are contacted by phone DON'T ANSWER ANY SECURITY QUESTIONS they can't continue the call it would be breaking the Data Processing Act (most call centre’s are on commission on the amount of money they get you to pay them there and then),

When you have CCA'd them they have 12 working days +2 for postage to provide you with a true copy of the original agreement. If after the 12+2 days they fail to provide the agreement then you can stop paying them until they comply by providing the agreement.

If after a further calendar month they still fail to provide an agreement then they are committing an offence.

Whichever way the cca request is dealt with post again and there will be plenty of help

 

don’t panic you'll get all the help you need here.

 

Best regards

 

dpick

[KAR22]

Thanks for that dpick. There seems to be so many MBNA addresses which one would be the best to send the cca request to? I assume that the cca request will need to go recorded delivery too.

 

KAR

[dpick]

Hi This is the address that I used for my MBNA CCA request. Also the CCA request is a legal request and if you send it to the wrong dept in MBNA they are legally required to send it on. Please remember send it registered delivery minimum you may need proof of delivery later.

 

MBNA Europe Bank LTD

Chester Business Park

Chester

CH4 9YR

 

all the best dpick:)

[KAR22]

I got my CC statement in the post this morning and they have applied the postal order for my CCA request to my account, what do I do now? Should I write/phone them or just wait until 12 + 2 days are up.

[dpick]

Hi this is standard procedure for MBNA they have accepted the money for your legal request does not matter what they do with it they still have to produce the agreement etc.

 

dpick:)

[DocH]

Sit tight - you now have proof that they've received your CCA request. If you've had no CCA back from them after the 12+2+30 then report them to your local TS for a summary criminal offence.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello All!

 

It cannot be long before we all get together and launch a GROUP PETITION against these Clowns at the MBNA.

 

Their name keeps coming up all over CAG like a nasty and scratchy rash.

 

Am I the only person having trouble with this particularly irritating Social Disease?

 

I caught mine off something nasty that dropped through my Letter Box a while back.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[KAR22]

Thank-you dpick & DocH

 

BRW, I tried being nice with this bunch of armholes for nearly 2 years and it got me nowhere. I've just had enough of them now.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello KAR22!

 

These people are just money-lenders in the very worst sense.

 

Absolutely nothing to be gained by being nice to them, as nice is not a Debit Card Payment, and a Debit Card Payment is all they want from you (although they will make do with a Cheque if pushed, but that is less instant and makes them wait longer, which they hate).

 

As dpick and DocH have advised, the Consumer Credit Agreement (CCA) request is the first thing to get going, as you seem to have done.

 

You need to see what, exactly, they have in their grubby little hands that may or may not make the Debt Enforceable.

 

Second thing I would do is send them the Telephone Harassment Notice Letter (see Harassment by telephone - response letter in the Template Letters), and I would add the following:

 

"I now have a Policy of never answering Security Questions to inbound Calls, rendering any Calls from your organisation to any of my numbers totally pointless."

 

This is important, because once you start getting serious with them, they will know you are heading in the right direction, so will step up the Bombardment by Telephone tactics. If it was bad before, it will get much, much worse once they reaslise you could soon find out the Debt is not as rock solid as you thought it was. They will now be desperate to get as many Payments from you as they can, before you turn the MBNA bug onto its back with all of its nasty little legs twitching in the air helplessly.

 

If at all possible, set-up a way to Record Telephone Calls. There are many ways to do this, from just using Speaker Phone and a Tape Recorder, to more expensive devices, to lash-up speakers and wires that can be done cheaply if you are any good at Telecom DIY.

 

If you have a Telephone that can show you the Calling Line Identity (CLI), i.e. the Caller's Number, then use the CLI Display carefully from now on, and start to ignore all Calls where the CLI is not displayed. Even if you can see it is them, still don't answer, just Log the Time and Date that they Called (it could be worth your while, see below).

 

In my long experience, if a Caller is hiding their number, it's nearly always a Call I do not need to waste any time answering.

 

Get right out of the habit of wanting to answer the Phone just because it's ringing. A few calls from people like the MBNA will soon help you in this respect!

 

Never forget that these people are using the Telephone as a banking weapon, exploiting the fact that many people still think of the Telephone as a convenient thing that is not hostile. Remember, the Telephone can be hostile if the Caller wishes it to be, but this only works if you drop your guard when taking inbound Calls.

 

However, if your Telephone cannot show the CLI then, from now on, always answer the Call with just "hello". It can be a nice "hello", but that's all you must say.

 

Never say who you are, or say your House Name or anything that gives anything away before you know who is calling you. Remember it is your Phone, your Time and they are wasting both of these valuable resources.

 

They have no Legal Right to Call, and no Legal Right to get you to answer anything they ask. You are in Control, not them.

 

Anyone polite Calling you, should always say who they are and from what organisation they are calling from. Even friends should say who they are, it's only good Telephone Manners after all.

 

If, on the other hand, they go straight in with "hello, is that KAR22?"...

 

...be wary, and do not say "Yes".

 

After all, you still do not know who is Calling you. After alll, how do you know it's the MBNA, it could be a Crook who has some of your details and is Calling to get the full set.

 

Just repeat, slowly and clearly: "who is Calling please?"

 

Saying "Yes" means they are on their way to identifying you, it is their first foot in the door, the thin edge of a very big wedge.

 

Once they start to prove you are who they want to Call, they can start saying things about your Account, Debt, Payment and anything else they can use to bully you into getting your Debit Card out. Remember the Debit Card? They won't have forgotten the Debit Card. That's all they want. Don't forget that.

 

When asked anything, tell them nothing but instead keep asking them who they are. What is their name, what Organisation are they Calling from, and do they perhaps have a Reference at all?

 

If you can Record the Call, at this point they may jump the gun and start being pushy. If they say anything at all about you or your Debt, without you saying who you are and you have it Recorded, then you have Won the Game! That Recording can be used against them...they have just broken a Golden Rule and are in big poo. You can exploit that later, by reporting them to various Authorities. For now, just Log it all for later!

 

If they won't say who they are, or just keep asking you who you are, or want to dive straight in to Security Questions, the Call is clearly a waste of your time. Just say:

 

"I cannot help you. I suggest you send a Letter. I am Terminating this Call". And then hang up.

 

With no CLI and no name, you cannot even prove who they are to Report them for Harassment, so end the Call straight away if that happens. Do not waste time talking to them, you have nothing at all to gain. It's at this point you must ask yourself, was it worth even picking up the phone?

 

If they do say who they are, and/or you can see their CLI, excellent, especially if you can tease a Reference out from them. Make a note of that, and then say:

 

"I cannot help you. I suggest you send a Letter. I am Terminating this Call". And then hang up.

 

Log the Time and Date of the Call, and any details such as the Caller's Regional Accent, names mentioned, references, anything to help prove who Called you to Harass you.

 

If they call again straight away, then just go straight for:

 

"I cannot help you. I suggest you send a Letter. I am Terminating this Call". And then hang up.

 

Log the Time and Date of the Call, and any details such as the Caller's Regional Accent, names mentioned, references, anything to help prove who Called you to Harass you.

 

If they keep Calling, don't bother answering, as it is now just Harassment. So, just make a note of the Time/Date as above.

 

The Key is you have told them nothing, they have no idea if it was you, the Call is a dead Call as far as they are concerned. But here's the good part, you may now have a Log of them Calling you, either via CLI and not answering, or if your Phone has no CLI, then via Answering and getting them to say who they are without you saying who you are!

 

This can be worth money to you...

 

Keep a Log of all such Calls, as the Telephone Harassment Notice means if you gather enough evidence, you may later be able to get some Compensation! Sometimes £150.00 to £200.00, just for Logging the Calls they make to you.

 

If everyone does this, they will soon realise that Harassment via Telephone is not cost-effective, and they will eventually stop. For now, it is their main Tool to bully people into (a) accepting the Debt is enforceable and (b) pressurising people into making instant Payments they would not otherwise make when not so bullied via Telephone.

 

So, KEEP IT IN WRITING as that is your first step in taking back Control. Letters s-l-o-w t-h-i-n-g-s d-o-w-n, give you time to t-h-i-n-k, and stops them from making silly threats. Or, if they do, you have the written evidence handed to you on a plate. Verbal threats on the Telephone, by comparison, are all too easy for them, as they can bully you and then deny it. Recording is handy in this case, as you may now appreciate.

 

If you get any nasty Letters you don't like the look of, you then have time to discuss them here, where many others can look at them and advise you on what they really mean.

 

I think you may soon find that the tables are being turned, and you are taking the first steps to re-gaining Control of events. Stress levels will fall, and you may even find that these muppets don't even have an Enforceable Debt after all. Christmas could then be coming earlier than you were expecting.

 

I do hope this helps.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[KAR22]

Hi all,

I have today received the following from MBNA ( their description not mine!)- copy of Original Credit Card application/agreement, terms and conditions and a recent statement of account.

 

I would post a copy of the card application but its illegible, it is definately the APPLICATION FORM that was signed by me in October 1997.

 

The terms and conditions are recent ones because they refer to the lender as MBNA and the default charges are for £12.00 and I know for a fact were at least £25.00 at some point (having had a few of them applied to the account!).

 

Should my next course of action be to request an agreement that I can actually read and T & C's that applied at the time of my application?

 

Many Thanks.

[KAR22]

Is the following enforcable?

 

 

All comments are appreciated, Thanks.

 

KAR

[dpick]

Hi KAR would I be correct in that your card was originally A&L and later sold to MBNA.

 

The "agreement" is in my opinion an application and as such I believe subject to section 59 of the CCA 1974 and is void. Thought other do have different ideas with regard to this.

 

Now the Terms & Conditions supplied. They are not applicable to your agreement at time of inception these are from approx June/July 2006 see the £12 charge etc.

 

So all you have been supplied with is an application form that has no prescribed terms and as such is unenforceable even by the court see section 127(3), 61(1) and 65(1) of CCA 1974. This is almost the same as the situation I had with MBNA. Photocopy of front of agreement and 2006 T&C no prescribed terms I finally had to go to court to get rid of them.

 

All the best dpick:)

[KAR22]

Hi dpick,

 

Yes you are correct, the card was originally with A&L.

 

Do I need to write to MBNA now to advise that the agreement is not enforceable and if so, is their a template letter that I could use? (at least then it would seem like I know what I'm doing, I'm a CCA virgin! lol)

And, is this the time that I should stop making payments to them or am I a little ahead of myself?

I appologise for the 20 questions but it seems the more I read the more confused I get.

 

Many Thanks

 

KAR

[goorooji]

I would be interested to see the outcome of your case.

 

Good luck.

 

Kind regards. G

 

PS feel free to see my thread.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/135558-help-court-summons-restons.html

[steven4064]

KAR PM'd me to ask if the document in post #12 was enforceable. Firstly, I would say that it doesn't comply with s78(1) of the CCA 1974 because it doesn't comply with regulation 2 of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) regulations 1983

2 Legibility of notices and copy documents and wording of prescribed Forms

(1) The lettering in every notice in a Form prescribed by these Regulations and in every copy of an executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act and delivered or sent to a debtor, hirer or surety under any provision of the Act shall, apart from any signature, be easily legible and of a colour which is readily distinguishable from the

Given that it is almost illegible, it is difficult to say whether it is enforceable or not.

 

It looks like the first 2 pages are back and fornt of the same document which has your name, address and signature. To be enforceable under s127(3) of the CCA 1974 it must have:

 

1. a statement about your credit limit, even if it just says that you will be told what it is.

2. the APR

3. a statement about how minimum payments are determined.

 

If any of these 3 are missing then it is not enforceable.

[KAR22]

Many Thanks Steven.

 

Am off to pen the next letter to them.

Any suggestions from you all would be very welcome.

 

KAR

[harvey0311]

hi im in the same boat getting loads of stick and calls from mbna have got copy of agreement what am i looking for or can i pm somebody it to read for me thanks

[steven4064]

Hi harvey

 

To be enforceable it must have in the same document:

 

1. Your signature

2. Your name and full postal adress

3. All the prescribed terms

- the APR

- a statement about your credit limit - either what it is, how it will be determined or that they will tell you what it is

- a statement about how minimum monthly payments will be determined.

 

It must have all these things.

[harvey0311]

i did you get chance to look at it got a letter 2 day from optima legal talking about charging orders whats this all about how can an unsecured debt suddenly become secured?

[harvey0311]

hi i think mine has all 3 things missing whats next step please

[steven4064]

In that case it is not an enforceable agreement

[KAR22]

Hi all, letter sent recorded delivery today.

 

dpick - hope you dont mind but i re-jigged one of yours, letter writing is not one of my best assets.

 

The 12 + 2 days was up on 4/4/08, is the + 30, 30 calendar days?

 

Thanks

KAR

[dpick]

Hi all, letter sent recorded delivery today.

 

dpick - hope you dont mind but i re-jigged one of yours, letter writing is not one of my best assets.

 

The 12 + 2 days was up on 4/4/08, is the + 30, 30 calendar days?

 

Thanks

KAR

 

Hi KAR 30 calandar days I just use one calandar month as to re-jigging letters that how I got my letters for me this is CAG my friend

 

all the best dpick:)

[KAR22]

Well the letter has been signed for today.

 

I've suspended payment to them via my DMP, which was much easier than I thought it would be. All it took was an email!

 

I'm expecting the constant calls to start again now as its been really quiet on that front..... almost too quiet

 

KAR