FV-1/IND Court claim HSBC Managed loan debacle **WON Claim Disc'd**

[Courierman]

Hi guys & gals,

 

I've just received a notice from Northampton with the exact same wording for a HSBC credit card debt. The notice is stating a balance from about three years ago, but I know full well it's getting very close to the six year limit, so I'm holding out just a bit longer ...

 

Yes, I've sent my letter to request all the documentation etc and following the course of action as outlined in other threads...

[Boro]

Last month i had a court claim form through the post, the claimant being fv-1 inc (us address given) with IND given for documents, it relates to an old loan with hsbc which is in dispute but i wont bore you all with details, the claim form is dated 07th march 2008, on the 12th march 2008 i filed AOS online and on the 18th march i sent IND a cpr to which they have failed to respond to as yet and the 14 days will be up today, if i have worked it all out correctly my defense needs to be in for the 8th april but im realy not sure what to say in my defense and am hoping you guys can help me come up with one

[Boro]

Heres the link to my earlier thread with all the details in it http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/134190-court-claim-recieved.html however i felt it fitted better in this forum as a legal issue rather than one with a debt collector

[Boro]

Hi again guys, well the 14 days are up for IND and they have sent me nothing in response to my cpr, time lines are as follows:

 

Claim filed 07/03/2008

AOS (by me) 12/03/2008

CPR (sent) 18/03/2008 by royal mail special delivery so delivered 19/03/2008

And by me reckoning i need to get my defense in by the 08/04/2008 so times a ticking, could someone please please help me with the defense as i havent a clue what i should be saying, thanks guys!

[Boro]

Well i have had a response from IND even if it is over the 14 days, it reads as follows:

 

We refer to your letter dated XX March 2008, which we will treat as an informal request for further information pursuant to part 18 of the civil procedure rules ("CPR"). We respond to your requests as follows:-

 

1. The indebtedness to which our claim relates was incurred by way of an overdraft on a current account with hsbc bank plc (the bank"), No loan agreements would have been executed. The bank would have relied on the exemption in section 74(1)(b) of the consumer credit act 1974 ("CCA") which applies to such facilities.In accordance with the determination issued by the director general of fair trading, dated 21 december 1989, if the bank provided the facility to you by prior arrangement, a letter would have been sent to notify you of the overdraft limit, the annual interest rate and charges (and how they could be varied), and of the fact that the facility was repayable on demand. A similar letter would have been sent if at the time the facility was renewed by prior arrangement with the bank. We will ask the bank to provide us with copies of any facility letters sent to you and which are still in the bank's possession. We will forward copies to you once they have been received.

 

2(a) We do not hold any transcripts of telephone conversations which you may have had with the bank's employees or agents. We have no records of telephone conversations with you.

 

2(b) This request does not appear to us to be relevant to any matter which is in dispute in the proceedings, and therefore we do not consider it a proper request for information under CPR part 18. If you disagree no doubt you will let us know how it is relevant to any matter in dispute in the proceedings.

 

2© A copy of the assignment of the debt to FV-1 Inc is attached. A copy of the demand sent to you by the bank will be requested from the bank and we will forward a copy to you when it is received. We do not intend to provide proof of postage unless you intend to assert in your defense (which must be confirmed by a statement of truth) that you have not received any letter or demand from the bank.

 

2(d) This request does not appear to us to be relevant to any matter which is in dispute in the proceedings, and therefore we do not consider it a proper request for information under CPR part 18. If you disagree no doubt you will let us know how it is relevant to any matter in dispute in the proceedings.

 

2(e) and (f) Details of all the charges debited to your current account would be shown in the bank statements sent to you from time to time by the bank. If you do not have copies in your possession, please let us know and we will ask the bank to provide us with duplicates. If you have any queries regarding any particular charges debited to your account, you will need to identify the particular charges and we will see if we can clarify why those charges where made.

 

2(g) and (h) These requests do not appear to us to be relevant to any matter which is in dispute in the proceedings, and therefore we do not consider them proper requests for information under CPR part 18. If you disagree no doubt you will let us know how they are relevant to any matter in dispute in the proceedings.

 

2(i) See the answer to 2(e) and (f) above.

 

3. Copies of any further documents on which we rely on which are otherwise relevant to the proceedings and in our control will be provided to you in the normal course as and when disclosure is directed by the court in accordance with the CPR.

 

Yours sincerely

 

IND LTD

 

 

And the only documents they have supplied relate to the sale of it to them by hsbc and nothing which shows how or if an amount is actually owing, interesting how in their reply they insist that it relates to an overdraft when i have certainly never had an overdraft of any where near this size and that in their POC they state that its for a personal loan! your thoughts please as i need to get a defense in shortly (due by the 8th i think) and as they have failed to comply (imo) i require them to comply in full and prove that they have the right collect, the amount, the charges on the account etc, im also not happy that the default notice for this account fulfills all the criteria that it should as on it there is no mention of any account number etc and on the one for another account there is

[mec]

i'm in the same boat with this lot. i've just posted a defence denying everything. i already requested documents relating to the claim that they wouldn't send until ordered to by the court. they did, however, send me bad photocopies of three pages and a schedule out of a 36 page document that they purport is the assignment dating from 2006. far from satisfactory.

 

i was never notified of an assignment as far as i know, or a default.

[Boro]

Is there no one arround who can help me :-|

[citizenB]

bumping for you xx

[pt2537]

well it seem the left hand needs to be introduced to the right hand at IND as they claim for a loan and refuse a CPR request on the basis its a overdraft:confused:

 

to be totally honest you cant really file any form of defence to this as we dont even know what it is you are defending and they havent supplied any documents either

 

I think the best you can do is file a holding defence

[Boro]

What is a holding defense? would you be able to help me to come up with one? thanks pt2537

[pt2537]

Hi Boro

 

it shouldnt be too hard TBH, i mean if the claimant doesnt even know what cause of action they are bringin the claim under then it wont be too hard to defend it, since we arent mind readers and dont have a crystal ball we can only rely on what they tell us

[Boro]

Ok, let me know what you think to the following and what i should be adding/omitting:

 

I respectfully request that the case be put on hold until such time when/if the claimant complies with my request for information under the civil procedure rules which they have failed to do so to date and are refusing to do so on the grounds that the claim is for a current account overdraft despite the fact that the particulars of their claim state it is for a personal loan, i would also appreciate it if the court would order the claimant to provide the information which they are obliged to provide me under my cpr request as without the proper information i am unable to respond to this claim

 

 

Thanks guys (ps assume as its fairly short im ok submitting it online rather than sending a paper copy to the court?)

[pblackie]

Hi Have a look at my thread, if you case is related to an account in dispute over chrges it may be usefull

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/132884-hsbc-nco-now-ind.html

[every dog has its day]

goggle "ivtsan" and you can find a planning application for offices !

[Boro]

A nice win there pblackie i only hope im as lucky but need to sort the defense out first and get it in

[steven4064]

Ok, let me know what you think to the following and what i should be adding/omitting:

 

I respectfully request that the case be put on hold until such time when/if the claimant complies with my request for information under the civil procedure rules which they have failed to do so to date and are refusing to do so on the grounds that the claim is for a current account overdraft despite the fact that the particulars of their claim state it is for a personal loan, i would also appreciate it if the court would order the claimant to provide the information which they are obliged to provide me under my cpr request as without the proper information i am unable to respond to this claim

 

 

Thanks guys (ps assume as its fairly short im ok submitting it online rather than sending a paper copy to the court?)

Boro, I don't know of any way of submitting a defence online.

 

The main points of the defence are there but I think you need more detail. THis is very similar to another case - defence here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/133928-cl-finance-howardchoen-please-5.html#post1456833

 

You can probably pinch a lot of this defence. If you need help, just shout. You might want to post what you have written before you send it. When is it due?

[pt2537]

i think you need to add a paragraph relating to the fact that they are splitting the cause of action into two separate parts which is contrary to s35 County Courts Act 1984

 

do you have a copy of the credit agreement? default notice and notice of assignment that you can post at all. it would be really good to get a look at them to check their form and content are correct

[steven4064]

Good, pt I missed that :o

[Boro]

Boro, I don't know of any way of submitting a defence online.

 

The main points of the defence are there but I think you need more detail. THis is very similar to another case - defence here: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/133928-cl-finance-howardchoen-please-5.html#post1456833

 

You can probably pinch a lot of this defence. If you need help, just shout. You might want to post what you have written before you send it. When is it due?

 

 

Due tuesday this week if my calculations are correct (dates are earlier in this thread) :o

[Boro]

i think you need to add a paragraph relating to the fact that they are splitting the cause of action into two separate parts which is contrary to s35 County Courts Act 1984

 

do you have a copy of the credit agreement? default notice and notice of assignment that you can post at all. it would be really good to get a look at them to check their form and content are correct

 

I do not have a copy of the agreement (nothing other than part of a sale agreement has been supplied under cpr either) i think i have the original default notice but im not happy that its valid as theres no mention of an account number and on one from my other account with them there was, i do have a copy of the assignment letter hsbc sent when it was assigned/sold, im full of cold so please bear with me

[steven4064]

Put something together from pt's defence on the link I gave you plus a paragraph as suggested by pt in post #39 and we'll have a look. You can post it first class tomorrow or hand deliver on Tuesday.

[Boro]

I have scanned the default notice and notice of assignment in but im temporarily locked out of photobucket so just waiting for it to reset, so i can hand deliver it to my local court? even though the claim was started at northampton ccbc, excellent news if thats the case makes things a lot easier

[steven4064]

Sorry, misunderstanding - you can only hand-dleiver it to the court where the case is - I assumed that was your local court. It will have to be first class post (or DHL better) to northampton.

[steven4064]

We don't need to see the default notice and notice of assignment - it was just an offer to check though your defence (which you should be able to cut and paste onto here)

[Boro]

Been feeling rough all evening and hardly a moment when im not sneezing or my nose isnt running damn cold so i havent got far on the defense, just have to pray im well enough in the morning to crack on with it and get it posted

 

Got my dates wrong just rang the court to check, defense isnt due until thursday so gives me a bit of breathing space to prepare something

Edited May 23, 2008 by Boro
Removed