My OH Vs HSBC (Credit Card)

[tooth_fairy]

November last year, my hubby requested a CCA from HSBC in respect of his credit card.

 

Today, received a copy of the terms and conditions plus this letter and any advice on the jargon is appreciated.

 

Dear Mr TF

 

I write with reference to your letter dated 13th November 2007 and your request for a copy of the original agreement relating to your account.

 

Section 78 (1) of the consumer credit act 1974 requires us to provide a copy of the executed agreement if any. Regulation3 (2) of the consumer cred (cancellation notices abd copies of documents) Regulations 1983 allows that certain items may be omitted from such copies, including the signature box and signature.

 

Therefore, the copy of the executed agreement we must supply is a copy but need not be a photocopy of the signed agreement. Regulation 7 of thos regulations also requires us to provide a copy of the executed agreement, as varied,where there is power to vary the terms of the agreement, which there is with your card agreement and that power has been exercised to vary the agreement, which again is the case with your agreement.

 

We therefore enclose an up to date copy of the terms and conditions applicable to your account, a copy of the latest variation notice issuesd in respect of your account and a clank copy of the agreement form. the agreement form contains the original terms that you accepted when you entered into the agreement. Clause 6.1 gives the bank the right to vary the terms and conditions. The variation notice shows that the terms have been varied and therefore in accordance with the legislation the up to date terms and conditions are the appropriate eveidence to produce.

 

Yours,

HSBC

 

 

Suitable response anyone?

 

NB NO blank agreement enclosed....

 

 

TF xx

[spamheed]

And they of course don't have to prove that you signed anything?

 

Of course they don't - what a load

 

they have supplied you with a blank form in place of a signed agreement. so have proven nothing. How do they link your OH with this agreement?

 

They would need to produce the signed agreement at court, but they are trying it on

 

No CCA - No agreement

[tooth_fairy]

Thanks Spamheed, as I thought, but due to so much jargon, I got a tad confused.

 

The debt was 'sold' to Metropolitan and then when the CCA was requested, sent back to HSBC who have been dealing with this since.

 

This is just the latest in a long line of strange letters from them.

 

As I say, the jargon threw me a bit and as I don't have the full Consumer Credit Act 1974 to hand, I wasn't 100% what they were trying to make out.

 

The in's and out's of this were that hubby was sold this card on the phone whilst checking his loan balance, so it is doubtful any paper, signed, CCA existed, though we are willing to be proved incorrect.

 

Cheers for the claritiy Spamheed.

 

TF xx

[spamheed]

I think this whol mouse click/telephony based agreement system is going to come back and bite a whole lot of Financial organisations very firmly in the botty.

 

anyone who ever applied for finance in any other way than written, simply has to say

 

"prove it was me that entered into the agreement"

 

and unless the creditor has a continuous link via statements and bank details, they are in shtuck and it would be a devil to enforce.

 

even tho there is legislation out there to allow for the system, how can a judge deny a defendant the right to be proven guilty? and how can it be proven without a clear link between the two parties?

[tooth_fairy]

And of course, lack of a CCA is seen as a defence to such proceedings.

 

The amount now is small, he had some £1800 taken off due to charges and is about £400 owing now. He stopped paying via PayPlan some time ago, but they haven't kicked up a fuss whatsoever, which suprised me. The monies stopped after the 12+2 days were up.

 

Trading standards are involved and as this is the 'final response' I'll think we'll go off down the FOS route.

 

Mind you, reading through a few similar threads with HSBC, this isn't an unusual response. Have decided to copy their letter to the clear English campaign though!!

 

TF

[tooth_fairy]

Well well well

 

Postie brought a nice suprise today.

 

Letter from HSBC basically saying

 

No, we haven't got a CCA and yes you are right, we cannot enforce this debt, so we'll write it off and we'll remove the defaults we entered against you.

 

So there you have it

Consumer 1 - HSBC 0

 

TF x

[42man]

Great result Tooth !! even nicer that they are removing the defaults !!!