HFO Services Limited and barclaycard debt

[UK26]

I will phone the Court tomorrow to find out more info about the Disposal hearing.

 

given the evidance you have seen chris, Can the court ignore this ?

 

Lets recap the HFOs Claim

 

They have

 

1 Statement of Case

3 Documents

 

all attached to this topic, no other evidance submitted to the court

 

 

be nice to know, what you think my chances are here based on your experience.

Regards

Dave

[car2403]

I think you have a case, but I'm not a Judge, whose decision will be final.

 

Realistically, I can't see the case being disposed of, as it needs to go to a hearing to look at the issues.

 

Whether this is the result or not is a bit of a lottery, unfortunately.

 

If it helps, the Judge is looking out for your rights as much as he is theirs, so you should get some good news one way or another, IMHO. Just be prepared to put your case forward, as I can see you are already.

[UK26]

If the case is disposed, can I appeal to this and have it realised?

Regards

Dave

[gh2008]

Most of the 'big' cases oft quoted on these forums are appeal cases. You only need to look at a few of the Penelope Wilson cases carefully to see how hard she had to fight, and fight hard she did. Read them, they're inspirational.

 

IMHO if the case is found against you , you will have very good grounds for appeal at the very least because you made a s78 request, which remains in default therefore they cannot enforce teh agreement, simple as that. Forget about all the other stuff for the moment as that one is really nice & simple.

 

As to the other 'stuff' as Docman & Car are saying & get as much evidence to back up what you are saying, stay calm and dispassionate about it, the Judge wants to see evidence not a tirade launched against the other party.

[Docman]

How can the Judge make an order againts me, when i have all this evidance?

 

Have you looked at my defence statement above Docman?

 

the court already have my defence, which i sent over 2 months ago. however, i have added more to the defence case, of which when i know for sure its all complete, i will file an Amended case file.

 

Part 18 Request is due to go off tomorrow.

 

 

one thing that im not pleased with, Disposal hearing you dont give oral evidance, but i really want to talk to the judge step by step by my statement, pointing out key facts and evidance.

 

Why has it been listed for a Disposal hearing, is this due to my N244 applicaiton to have the Judgement removed so i could enter a defence?

 

Regards

 

Dave

 

 

If I can play the Devil's Advocate for a moment & try to look at this from the judge's viewpoint and please, please don't think I'm trying to knock you. I'm not.

 

First, the District Judge will probably be a generalist lawyer, and not an expert in Consumer credit law. He may only be a part time judge, possibly a retired solicitor sitting for one or two days a week.

 

Second, the judge will have several cases to deal with, jumping from one area of law to another, some of which he may not know. He may just skim through the papers and want to get rid of a case asap before moving on to the next one.

 

Thirdly, your defence. Where have you said specifically that you don't owe this money? There's a lot of grief, a lot of 'conspiracy', at lot of hard luck but no actual denial of the claim from HFO. You need to attack each of their points, not tell you hard luck story. That's what you SAY to the judge, not what you put in writing. For example, the letter from 'Barclaycard'. I suspect it is from HFO. Many CAGers have received sucj Notices from several companies/banks, all of whom seem to post these Notices with a 'SW19' postcode, despite their own offices being from Northampton to Glasgow. Where are HFO based? You need to get a letter from Barclaycard stating quite clearly that they did not issue the Notice of Assignment so you can put that in evidence.

 

Fourth, you have gone on to argue about the interest and costs. Since you haven't said you don't owe the money, the Judge has probably thought of a disposal hearing to establish exactly how much is in dispute between you and HFO. Once that is established, then he can porceed to a trial of the issues.

 

Finally, you have served a CCA under S78 to which they haven't responded. Tha's all you really need to say. Keep it simple.

 

Best of luck

[UK26]

The problem is, If i lose (Hope Not) HFO would try to enforce it, while i am appealing to the court.

 

I will write to the council, and ask them for a letter to also confirm, the date i moved into Ratlciffe Court.

 

I doubt, i will get this before the court date, but will try

 

just trying to thing what else i could use as evidance.

 

Docman, I have sent you a PM about your above post,

 

 

Regards

 

Dave

[UK26]

Hows this now

 

added section 14

[car2403]

Just replied to your PM, benwell...

[UK26]

having spoken to Barclays Bank about there letters,

 

 

They confirmed, the below

 

1. They have never held the address which is on there letter (Exhibit 1)

2. They confirm the debt was sold on 10th March 2006

3. They Said the contents witin the letter looks normal

 

But refused to look into the matter and said, i need to talk to HFO

 

Having pointed out, How serious this could be, and the fact they have no knowledge regarding my address on Exhibit 1

 

They now claim,

I said, if I send in a copy of this letter could they look at it

 

There response was, they have no legal obligation so NO

 

I advised, SHOULD my case be proved in court, i will have to inform the court, i had no help what so ever in the investigaton of a Possable fraud case.

 

I’m amazed by this

 

Telephone call Recorded

Moving on from this, I'm now also in receipt of a Letter from the council also confirming i was not at the address during March 06 and that i moved in during April 2006

Bingo

 

 

Regards

 

Dave

[gh2008]

Hows this now

 

added section 14

 

Can I suggest you read a few of Paul's (PT2537) defences.

 

The form and content needs to be much more like Paul's for it to be taken seriously. Note the wording used and the phrases used.

 

Quoting from the ICO and an MP is not the same as quoting precedent and caselaw. Precedent and caselaw apart from being binding are also easily verifiable by the Judge.

[UK26]

Hi GH2008

 

With respect to Paul (PT2537), He is a law student and I’m a layman who has very little knowledge within the law.

 

I will however try and find Pauls statements and look closely and to my best ability try to tidy up my statement of case where possible.

 

do you have any links to these documents?

 

 

Have not had time to call the courts yet with reference to the disposal hearing etc as ive been working on another case all day.

 

MY desk is full lol

 

Regards

 

Dave

[gh2008]

Claiments particulars of claim

as requested

 

 

 

 

 

 

MY - Statement of Case

 

Ok Dave,

IMHO and I hope someone will correct me if I'm worng, your 'new' defence needs to be built upon the default in their response to your s78 request

Whilst in default a creditor cannot seek to enforce an agreement

 

There is then the issue of lack or response to your CPR request - did you also SAR them?

 

Then you have to pick apart their POC para by para

 

Now para 3 & 4 state that BC closed the accoutn and THEN issued a default notice

That should have happened the other way round !!!!!!

Without a proper default notice they cannot enforce the claim

Where is this default notice it should have been attached to the Statement

 

Paras 5,6,7 all denied. Now this is where you need to caefully word a statement showing that you did not live at the address they claim to have sent the letters to nor did you at that time have any knowledge of it, as you did not move there until ###date####

BCard have no knowledge of the letter that the claimant puports them to have sent.

 

para 8&9 you could refer to lack of CCA SAR & CPR response

 

Then you need to query the amounts as the court fee seems wrong should be £80 AFAIK and where did they get the figures for the interest from as the agreement had been terminated??

 

I hope someone else will be along to tidy it up and correct my mistakes

[UK26]

would it help if i post up a copy of there N1 claim form?

 

With regards to the default, to which i have never received from Barclays Bank. yet HFO have placed a default on my credit file.

 

Does it say this in there claim Nope

 

nore did HFO send me a default notice it writting

 

Regards

 

Dave

[UK26]

Updated

Image of Document Removed due to identity issues

[gh2008]

Ok, now read PT's defences again and you will find that they should have attached the agreement, default notice, assignment etc etc to the POC

 

Start hacking together a new defence based on the post up a bit, start with the easy bits, bullet point the more difficult bits and then go from there

 

One fo PT's defences has the paras in you require about them being in default of the s78 request, after the preamble about their cr@p POC that's IMHO is your starting point

[UK26]

Can anyone point me in the right direction here. i am doing the new Statement of case now and are stuck at the defualt part.

 

So far i have

• The Particulars of the claimants Claim are vague and insufficient and do not disclose an adequate statement of facts relating to or proceeding the alleged cause of action. I draw the courts special attention to paragraph 3 and 4 from the claimant’s statement of case, prepared by Mr Robert Johnson from Thurnbull Rutherford Solicitors on 7th October 2007.

 

now as can be seen from above, The account was closed on 10th March 2006 and a default issued on 11th May 2005

 

I recall there being a requirement to give 14 days notice to allow the defendant time to comply with the default.

 

in this case, they closed the account on the 10th May 05 and issued the Default on 11th May 05 whereby not giving me time to reply

 

Saying that, going by the other documents they sent, Exhibit 1,2,3

 

i would never of received them anyway

 

Regards

 

Dave

[Docman]

Dave

The POC say the debt was assigned on 11 May 2005. I thought the Notice of Assignment was dated 19 March 2006. Any reason for the difference in dates?

Doc

[UK26]

not more issues lol

 

Nope was not aware of this.

 

what does this mean now then Docman?

 

having spoken to Barclays Bank today they confimed March 06

 

Telephone Recording with Barclays Bank attached http://www.benwell.clara.co.uk/Record004.amr.

 

 

 

Regards

 

Dave

[Docman]

Have you got any evidence from Barclaycard that they closed the account on 10 May 2005 but issued a default notice on 11 May 2005? HFO seem to be quoting the wrong dates. What's on the documents you hold?

[UK26]

On Exhibit 1,2,3 from HFO Solicitors

 

19th March 06

20th March 06

21st March 06

 

Barclays Confirmed the debt was sold on 10th March 06

 

Another part just added to my statement of case

 

Concerns:-

 

a) The claimant’s particulars on the N1 Claim form suggest the assignment of account took place on 11th May 2005 yet Exhibits 1, 2 and 3 attached to the claimant’s statement of case, contradicts this by claiming it took place on 19th March 2006.

 

b) Referring back to the claimants statement of case, section 3 states the account with Barclaycard was closed on 10th May 2005, section 4 states Barclaycard issued a default notice on 11th May 2005.

 

 

 

from B) above what part of the CCA and section is this a breach of?

 

from what ive seen The creditor must allow you 7 days to comply with the default notice and by them closing the account before the defaut notice they have taken away the right?

 

 

Regards

 

Dave

[UK26]

Think i may have sorted it now

 

b) Referring back to the claimants statement of case, section 3 states the account with Barclaycard was closed on 10th May 2005, section 4 of the statement states Barclaycard issued a default notice on 11th May 2005. this is in breach of section 87(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 by issuing a default notice after the account had been closed in this situation the following day.

 

Now moving on, i now have come up with

 

 

 

a. The claimant’s particulars on the N1 Claim form suggest the assignment of account took place on 11th May 2005 yet Exhibits 1, 2 and 3 attached to the claimant’s statement of case, contradicts this by claiming it took place on 19th March 2006.

 

 

Nevertheless the defendant believes Exhibits 1, 2, 3 provided by the claimant to be vexatious based on the dates and addressees of these exhibits as the defendant did not live at the address stated during this period. I attach Exhibit B12 a copy of the defendant’s tenancy agreement signed by the landlord confirming the commencement date and the date of which this tenancy was signed.

 

 

b. Referring back to the claimants statement of case, section 3 states the account with Barclaycard was closed on 10th May 2005, section 4 of the statement states Barclaycard issued a default notice on 11th May 2005. This is in breach of section 87(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 by issuing a default notices after the account had been closed in this situation the following day.

 

 

c. I would like to draw the courts attention to the claimants N1 Particulars of claim, whereby the claimant claims interest pursuit to section 69 of the County Court Act 1984. From 11th May 2005 to 8th June 2007 an amount of £318.78 but in the claimant’s statement of case they also claim interest from 19th March 2006 to 11th June 2007 for £482.78. This is not only confusing but also the calculations are incorrect and are a breach of the County Court Act 1984 Section 69 whereby the claimant is only entitled to claim statutory interest that of 8% per annum.

 

 

d. Referring back to the claimants N1 Claim Form I would like to point out the court fee being charged here is £110.00 but referring to the county court website for fixed sums up to £3,000 the prescribed fee is £85.00 certainly not £110.00 that’s being claimed.

 

[UK26]

Hi

 

Here is a printout from my credit report

 

[01-09-2008 - Document reposted to make better reading of case file

 

Have you got any evidence from Barclaycard that they closed the account on 10 May 2005 but issued a default notice on 11 May 2005? HFO seem to be quoting the wrong dates. What's on the documents you hold?

 

 

 

 

The New statement of defence has been removed, to prevent leakge to the wrong people before it is a necessary to desclose it.

 

If the guys here helping need to see it, please PM ME

Edited September 1, 2008 by UK26

[gh2008]

Dave

The POC say the debt was assigned on 11 May 2005. I thought the Notice of Assignment was dated 19 March 2006. Any reason for the difference in dates?

Doc

 

There are soooo many issues with this case it is just too easy to jump in and concentrate on 1.

 

Yes, Docman, you have found another one POC says 11 MAY 2005 and they are claiming interest from that date - how very naughty of them. Bcard confirm March 2006 so they are pulling a bit of a fast one there.

 

Dave, in your statement - they are saying they sent you those letters - you need to deny it (legal term) you can then put your 'in the alternative' suggestion - but I think it is important that you deny it and put the claimant to strict proof. They cannot prove they even sent them, as they have presented them to the Court as sworn evidence with the wrong address.

 

You also need to do the same with the Default Notice, you deny you received it and put the claimant to strict proof in the alternative you show that even if it had been sent when they say it was then it was ineffective as it was in breach of the Act and you could actually quote in your statement the part of the Act to save it being looked up.

87 Need for default notice

(1) Service of a notice on the debtor or hirer in accordance with section 88 (a “default

notice”) is necessary before the creditor or owner can become entitled, by reason of any

breach by the debtor or hirer of a regulated agreement,—

(a) to terminate the agreement, or

(b) to demand earlier payment of any sum, or

© to recover possession of any goods or land, or

(d) to treat any right conferred on the debtor or hirer by the agreement as

terminated, restricted or deferred, or

(e) to enforce any security.

 

On a point of protocol here - is a defendant allowed to suggest that a claimant is in contempt if they submit sworn evidence which they know not to be true??

That is a serious question BTW and may or may not be related to this case.

Knowingly submitting evidence that is 'made up' and knowingly making a false statement are both contempt aren't they.....

[gh2008]

Another point, check out the interest amount and dates form the POC and compare the dates and amount on the Statement.

 

Tha also needs to be raised that will be in the preamble area where you are saying that they have not particularised their claim properly. You can then go on to say about them not showing how the amount claimed was calculated and quote the discrepancy with the interest dates and amount as an example.

[UK26]

Hiya What do i need to add to the statement then?

 

Regards

 

Dave