Its Not A Crime! - BR 28 Feb

[Lula]

I think that you need to report the fraud to the various companies involved who should then involve the police, I cannot believe their attitude in this, it beggers belief.

[volvo]

Here, Here.Perhaps, just perhaps the police will treat the complaint seriously if it comes from a law abiding company!!

 

What on earth do we pay our council/police etc tax for??

 

Hope you all get some satisfaction in the end.

 

Volvo

[sisternumber1]

Lula

 

When I spoke to MBNA their attitude was - why didnt you report it when you got your credit card statements - they refuse to believe that my daughter only started seeing statements from October onwards, when the card was already over the credit limit, they refuse to believe that my daughter could have been so ill.

 

Theoretically BC are looking into fraud - but who knows for certain - the police told me that the holes in walls only keep their camera shots for 24 hours - what the hell use is that - and if you dont report card fraud directly after you get your statement you havent a chance. They also said this woman will never actually steal anything but she takes advantage of peoples trust. She is a serial fraudster, and will probably continue through the rest of her life so doing, and they claim its unlikely that she can be stopped. What a justice system we do have, and people like my daughter are the ones that get hurt - he credit limit has been trashed, and hse has all those debts to her name and just benefits to live on.

 

Ok one of the things that I am going to do is send them (card companies)the docs letter which we have just had - the others are maybe a little old but I will copy them as well - and I will also put a copy of the photo of the mass that came out of my daughters heart - its gory, but my daughters heart made some medical journal - she is a miracle of heart surgery and an innate fighter - she should not have survived. But as to whether they will accept that it is fraud I do not think so - my daughter left her pin lying around - so even though we have all the evidence of how ill she was - she will still be considered as being careless - thats what the police said - they said it was sad that my daughter trusted her - but they often hear stories like that but they are not actionable. I suspect its something to do with their statistics when it comes down to it! - I do however wonder if it would be different if we lived elsewhere?

[Lula]

I am afraid that if you tell the credit card company that your daughter left the pin numbers lying around then they will say that she is negligent and liable for the debt

[sisternumber1]

I found her pin for the virgin card in amongst some of housemates papers, now I do not know if my daughter even opend the envelope with it in as it would have arrived at the time that my daughter was very ill, in fact I am now starting to think of something else in relation to this - dont know why i didnt think of this before - the virgin card was first used in February 2007 to transfer the then balance from the BC - how do you do this? is there any record kept of how this is done by the credit card companies? I know that I am clutching at straws, and that maybe the best thing is just to get on and get the help of the debtline to get her made bankrupt, and then she can start again. at least then all her benefit money will be hers.

[Goldlady]

Hi sister - I have read your thread for the first time after seeing your other thread about the flatmate. What a dreadful situation. Your daughter must be pretty strong willed though to insist on remaining independent in spite of her illness - all credit to her.

 

Various things have occurred to me while reading all this. I can't believe what Mercers said to you about putting a charging order on your house - who do these people think they are? You realise why some poor souls commit suicide - can you ever imagine making a living out of destroying other people? It must take a special sort of person:mad:

 

With regard to the Council Tax - I wondered if it was possible to get the council to write it off? There is something called the hardship fund or something like, and in your daughter's circumstances it might be worth asking. The council has to consider whether the 'other ratepayers' would consider it a worthy cause. Look into it - might help.

 

Have the credit cards frozen the interest?

 

I see you have considered bankruptcy - my thought is that in the present situation it might be the best option. After all it is most certainly going to be a no fault bankruptcy and she would be discharged within a very short time due to the circumstances. And that would teach all those nasty people a lesson.

 

One thing I did when things were really bad was actually filled in my own bankruptcy petition - downloaded it from the internet - and sent a copy of it to all my creditors along with my offer of £1 a month. Did the trick with some of them - the ones who would not play ball were sent a CCA letter - MBNA and Barclaycard included - and not one of them could find an enforceable agreement:D I loved getting rid of MBNA as they were particularly horrible.

 

I wish I could help with the criminal aspect - it seems unbelievable that someone can effectively get away with theft on such a scale. But seeing how easily the CPS refuse to prosecute people where to me the evidence seems strong, I can see why the police are so reticent to do anything. Hopefully someone can point you in the right direction on this one.

 

But at the end of the day there is always Karma. I knew a girl once who worked as a care assistant in a nursing home and stole pension money from the old ladies. She was diagnosed with MS at the age of 24. So even if the legal system doesn't help you someone will:cool:

 

Keep fighting - you will get there.

[pt2537]

Im sorry but from my reading of this thread, it is a criminal offence that has occured here, atthe very very least there is a case for theft, by definition theft is the dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention of permantly depriving ownership

 

s1 theft act.

 

 

but i would suggest that this would more than likely come under Fraud

 

in any case i would seriously consider a complaint to the Chief Constable of your police authority on the basis that the officers are in clear neglect of their duty

 

i would also consider a complaint to the IPCC Independent police complaints commission

 

thats my personal view on this anyway

 

regards

paul

[The GodMother]

WTF.

 

Exactly were did they get there police training?

 

More than likely a Christmas cracker.

 

I would certainly do as paul said and make the complaintsto there superiors.

 

If you can prove the card and pin number arrived whiles your daughter was ill and transactions that was made on the cards was made whilest ill then l think you may have a case.

 

I am so angry with the police over other matters but this just takes the biscuit. I dont see how they can claim that if something arrives whilest your daughter is in hospital that they can say she left it lying around. I am glad they have got there priortys rite.

 

Chrissi

[sisternumber1]

Paul

 

When i spoke to the police originally the officer who took the details over the telephone said that it was a couple of offences; taking advantage of a sick person and taking their money, or in this case their credit amounted to a couple of fairly serious criminal charges. Yet the two officers who came out and their sergeant whom they spoke to after speaking to us said that they wouldnt be able to make it stick, as the person in question will argue that my daughter gave her permission for her to take care of her finances, admitedly this afternoon my daughter was not very with it and the police officers decided that she would not be up to testifying in court, yet if they had questioned her on Wednesday they would have formed a totally different opinion.

 

My daughter is now thinking that that woman does have influence within the police force via her father, so many stories as to what and who that family are supposed to be. In essence she is a thief with an overactive imagination and a good line in implied threats.

 

I will sleep on it and decided what to do in the morning - remembering that it is the weekend.

[sisternumber1]

Im sorry but from my reading of this thread, it is a criminal offence that has occured here, atthe very very least there is a case for theft, by definition theft is the dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention of permantly depriving ownership

 

s1 theft act.

 

Paul

 

would this be a good time to go seek the advice of a solicitor?

 

and what variety of solicitor would we be looking for? and would this come under legal aid?

 

A bit naive at the moment

 

Thank you

[The GodMother]

Personally l would go down to the police station and Knock out the police officers and there sargant.

 

Ok you will get in a bit of trouble but at least something might be done about your daughters case due to the fact they have completly failed to act within the law.

 

Chrissi

[tomterm8]

Hi sister - I have read your thread for the first time after seeing your other thread about the flatmate. What a dreadful situation. Your daughter must be pretty strong willed though to insist on remaining independent in spite of her illness - all credit to her.

 

Various things have occurred to me while reading all this. I can't believe what Mercers said to you about putting a charging order on your house - who do these people think they are? You realise why some poor souls commit suicide - can you ever imagine making a living out of destroying other people? It must take a special sort of person:mad:

 

Well, I don't think Mercers actually AIM to kill the debtor, or even destroy the debtor. But they aren't particularly nice about reclaiming their money.

With regard to the Council Tax - I wondered if it was possible to get the council to write it off? There is something called the hardship fund or something like, and in your daughter's circumstances it might be worth asking. The council has to consider whether the 'other ratepayers' would consider it a worthy cause. Look into it - might help.

Always worth talking to your local councillor.

Have the credit cards frozen the interest?

 

I see you have considered bankruptcy - my thought is that in the present situation it might be the best option. After all it is most certainly going to be a no fault bankruptcy and she would be discharged within a very short time due to the circumstances. And that would teach all those nasty people a lesson.

If the debt was stollen, she is not liable for it any way.

One thing I did when things were really bad was actually filled in my own bankruptcy petition - downloaded it from the internet - and sent a copy of it to all my creditors along with my offer of £1 a month. Did the trick with some of them - the ones who would not play ball were sent a CCA letter - MBNA and Barclaycard included - and not one of them could find an enforceable agreement:D I loved getting rid of MBNA as they were particularly horrible.

 

LOL

 

I wish I could help with the criminal aspect - it seems unbelievable that someone can effectively get away with theft on such a scale. But seeing how easily the CPS refuse to prosecute people where to me the evidence seems strong, I can see why the police are so reticent to do anything. Hopefully someone can point you in the right direction on this one.

 

I think at the moment she is doing everything right.

 

Keep fighting - you will get there.

[sisternumber1]

Having slept on it, will phone the National Debt Line and will prepare to go down the bankruptcy route. Cant put my daughter through anything else. Just bite the bullet and do it.

 

I am also going to get an injunction to stop Ms P C from contacting my daughter either directly or through third parties. - While this thing with the police was going on she had the cheek to text my daughter and tell her a mutual friend had some cat food for the cats! as if a few tins of cat food will in any way compensate for several thousands of pounds and a trashed credit history (thats what hurts my daughter, her reputation being trashed). Self same mututal friend keeps trying to get in contact, my daughter has now told her to leave her alone until she is ready to speak to her.

[sisternumber1]

Just had a long chat with National Debtline, thay are going to send us the info re bankruptcy, and somewhere where we may be able to get the a grant to cover the cost of going bankrupt - court fees should be nil when the form is filled out.

 

When we first started talking and he said about filling in the Income and Expenditure form, he said the DLA is disregarded, no-one is allowed to make a claim against that its money for her extra expenditure as a disabled person. That was a new one on me.

 

However he filled in his form as we were speaking and he said that I have gone down all the right routes and the best and fastest option is for her to be declared bankrupt. there are drawbacks, but they seem insignificant to what is going on now.

[tomterm8]

However he filled in his form as we were speaking and he said that I have gone down all the right routes and the best and fastest option is for her to be declared bankrupt. there are drawbacks, but they seem insignificant to what is going on now.

 

i tend to agree, in this case. She certainly has little to lose via bankruptcy. almost all of her benefits will be exempted, and she has no property that would be forfeit.

 

It's just a pity the police are doing b**er all.

[sisternumber1]

yes thats what is so upsetting - the lack of help from the police - it seems it doesnt matter what happens to those who are least able to look after themselves, and what my daughter finds frustrating is that althoug her body is giving up a bit at a time, and now it seems to be accelrating, her mind is still there most of the time, she can think and reason, just that there are great gaps in her memory from when she was fighting for her life, thats not her fault, is it?

 

I just want to inflict upon that bitch what she has inflicted on my daughter - I am sorry if its over the top - but my daughter no longer wishes to live as a result of all this, she cant handle much more then the process of staying alive.

[noomill060]

BBC NEWS | UK | Northern Ireland | Tar and feather attack 'barbaric'

[sisternumber1]

I have done something really stupid last night - I sent a text message to her

"Pay your outstanding council tax bill. Pay back ALL the money you have removed from the credit cards. leave d alone: no more texts, no more attempts via third parties. this is the only warning before an injunction will be sought against you. You will not hear from me again"

 

She then sent a load of texts to my daughter and this one to me:

 

"Since when does letting D know how to transfer the cable, answering questions she has asked me and sending food for the cats constitue harassment? However as this is the 4th threat ( I have only sent the one- she has told my daughter that she had received a couple of text messages from me, but they wer not my mobile number - two different numbers my daughter said) i've recieved may the wrong party is using a term like injunction. As for third partied I don't need to use them. I can act on my own behalf. Although as it was D and I who had a relationship i believe that makes you a 3rd party. I do hope u keep your word tha i'll never hear from you again."

 

Wish I did not give into my irrational feelings. Whatever my daughter does, she will get in touch with vodaphone tomorrow and get a new number for her mobile. And what makes her the only person who can change the cable? As if I havent done that several times in my life! She still believes her self invicible. this is were I wish that I was able to swear.

[sisternumber1]

My daughter is refusing to go for dialysis today - that b**** has won

[pt2537]

My daughter is refusing to go for dialysis today - that b**** has won

 

Have you contacted the police again?

 

i strongly advise that you consider asking the police to reconsider or a complaint will be made to the IPPC

 

i can only advise you on the best course of action, its up to you if you follow it or not, but getting stressed out will solve nothing,

 

 

i appreciate the difficulty of your situation but i feel you need to get to grips with the police, they should at least investigate this

 

regards

paul

[Edz11]

pt3527's advice is best. You should write to the Chief Constable formally complaining and ask that your complaint be brought to the attention of the Complaints sub committee of the Police Authority.

 

It is for the Police to investigate and establish if there are grounds for further investigation. If they have established that an offence has been committed then it is the job of the CPS to determine if there is sufficient evidence to warrant a prosecution - it IS NOT their role.

[The GodMother]

God sister you are having a bad 24 hours.

 

Your daughter needs to be made aware that she is still winning even if you tell her the police were wrong and they do have a case and they are taking it up. She needs to do this as not doing it is only letting the other person win.

 

I would do everything you can but short of forcing her it may be impossible.

 

Chrissi

[tomterm8]

What your daughter really needs is to talk to someone who tells her the truth: the reality is, in this situation, the worst that can happen to her is that she declares bankruptcy.

 

This process will take, no more than a year (probably six months) and she will probably not have to pay more than 0.1% of the alleged debts back.

 

If she declares bankruptcy, she will fill out some forms, and given she has no assets, will probably undergo a single interview with the official reciever.

 

That's the WORST case scenario.

 

In the best case, you will be able to get the police to investigate these debts, and they will be wiped out.

[sisternumber1]

After a little persuasion she went to and has been dialysed, I told her all that the very helpful person at the National Debtline told me, and she is in agreement with the bankruptcy option, I wrote it all out on a sheet of paper with all the options and the pros and cons of each, using the excellent piece on here as my guide.

 

Then she said before I put it to her that she wanted to complain about the police, she felt she may have been unfairly treated by them, and she was not going to be a victim any longer.

 

Daughter is already in bed and asleep, and I am exhausted but its not as bleak as it was at 2.30 this afternoon. Thank you all so much. Sometime tomorrow I will draft a letter and put it on to here for comments, and I will take it to Police HQ on Monday on my way to work, it's across the road from the industrial estate where our business is situated, so easier to deliver it then to post it.

[noomill060]

As I said the the PM, as you have her mums's address, a Small Claim may be a possibillity.

 

You can send the papers to her last known address, this would be her mum's as far as you know.

 

Her dad is probably a pillar of the (EDIT) community, given his former job (EDIT).

 

A CCJ against his address would not go down well.

 

With regards to harassment, only two unwelcome contacts count as harassment, you can make a claim for damages through the Small Claims court as well as an application for an injunction.

 

First off, go to cops about these harassing text messages.

 

(EDIT)