The real shame of this nation

[Goldlady]

Agree with Brassed off. It is a thread that needs to continue - unless Dobbydog wants it closed. After all, we have tackled the banks, the credit cards, the traffic wardens, so now we start on the criminal justice system.

[Guest louis wu]

I will be more than happy to allow Dobby the final decision, but only if those that know him feel it would not distress him

[Brassed off]

I'll e-mail her and see what she wants to do Louis if that's OK?

[MARTIN3030]

I can confirm that requests have been made to close the thread.Dobbydogs post has seen much response.

Sensitive issues have to be respected and handled with cotton wool but I think its fair to say the replies here have all been dignified and will be of some comfort to Dobbydog.I am going to referre the request to the team but obviously any closure decisions will take into account the feelings of anyone who thinks the thread should be closed.Sometimes its good to talk openly and hear thoughts .....in some ways this can add comfort to those who have suffered-although we know can never turn back the clock.

Thank you for great respect here.....these are emotive subjects and in the true spirit of those who recognise it,

will help those who often have no answers to things that have affected them so much.

[Guest louis wu]

......

[Brassed off]

Agree with Brassed off. It is a thread that needs to continue - unless Dobbydog wants it closed. After all, we have tackled the banks, the credit cards, the traffic wardens, so now we start on the criminal justice system.

 

I totally agree with you GL but obviously, it would depend on Dobby

[Brassed off]

I have PMd Dobby and await her reply

[DOBBYDOG]

post 18 upset me, I feel responsible.

I have asked for the thread to be closed.

 

louis

 

louis, hi. Please dont feel responsible ! In a way i'm glad you started this thread as it was the start of me even begining to face up to this. So thanks for that

The wounds are still very much open and raw so dont worry you havn't opened old ones.

It has helped me somewhat to know that people are on my side and feel very strongly about the subject !! and if anything good can come from Gary Newlove's, my dad's or others death, then i'm all for that.

 

Sorry if i upset you re-post 18. It was a link to the newspaper reports and when i got up the next day decided to take it off. I dont know why ? But if anyone wants to see them im more that happy to put the links back on.

 

Ultimatly, it's up to you re- the thread but i really dont mind it staying open. Also thanks for the good wishes all.

 

DOBBYDOG X

[Brassed off]

Time is a good healer Dobby. You may feel at sometime in the future that you want to put your feelings and experience across and hopefully, you will get some useful information and empathy from the lovely peeps on CAG which can only help you move forward in life.

 

I'm sure that many Caggers will be following your endeavours to get justice for you and your family.

[PriorityOne]

Dobbydog..... words can't convey how I felt when reading your earlier post.

 

Just wanted to subscribe to the thread and offer my support to you... x

[saintly_1]

Dooby words are somehow inadequet ........ but know that you have my full support Thinking of you and your family

 

xxx

 

Saint

[Rooster-UK]

Hi Dobby, I've only just seen this thread.

Please let me offer my condolences and my deepest sympathy for your tragic loss.

 

Time will not fade the memory, but it will make it easy to bear.

 

Regards, Rooster.

[caro]

My heart goes out to you and your family Dobby. Words just aren't enough. {{{{{{hugs}}}}}}

[Brassed off]

My heart goes out to you and your family Dobby. Words just aren't enough. {{{{{{hugs}}}}}}

 

Ditto Caro Martin, I've tried to PM you but your PM box is full. Dobby would like to keep this thread open if that's OK?

[MARTIN3030]

Until we start to deal with the core issues that allow these terrible things to go on happening it will not be sorted.

Last night I saw - as maybe you did too the plans to introduce scanning machines in schools to detect knives.

Apparantly its now common in the US even for infants.

What a sad story....but a sign of the times.

People with no children blame cheap booze but are ignorant as to how difficult it is in the milenium to bring up children to have moral values and respect.

The best parents can do their job at home only to see their teachings undone in the school playground by children whose parents dont give a Sh!t.So whats the answer ?

The generation now will be our guardians in a few years and its not something I relish.I was a naughty lad in my youth and spent years in approved schools detention centres Borstal and eventually Prison.But it did me no harm ....in fact it taught me a few lessons.In those days we fought with fists not with knives or Guns.

Sadly these days the same places are just a breeding ground to learn more street tricks.

Much of the healing process for those who have suffered loss of their loved ones as our friend here-relies on a grasp of why it happened.

The youth culture of today is different to mine and yours...as a result we all have to change the lives we were brought up with.But we cant blame the kids for everything.....music fashion and supposedly role models like M&M have changed life forever.You are still regarded as a Hoodie if you go into Tesco after a rainstorm and approach the main doors with the hood up !!!

[ukaviator]

Hi Dobbydog

 

Being an Ex Copper, many years ago i was, on occasion, called to cases simular to yours. It does stay with you, but it will be easier to bear over time. My condolences and my deepest sympathy for your tragic loss.

 

Take care

 

Uk

[Guest louis wu]

Sorry if i upset you re-post 18. It was a link to the newspaper reports and when i got up the next day decided to take it off. I dont know why ? But if anyone wants to see them im more that happy to put the links back on.

 

Ultimatly, it's up to you re- the thread but i really dont mind it staying open. Also thanks for the good wishes all.

 

Dobby, I saw the links originally in post 18, so new why it so emotive.

 

I think the overiding message is that this thread should stay open, something I am more than happy to agree with.

 

louis

[caro]

Wow Martin. Thanks for your honesty. I'm glad that you see the other side of life now, and that you're giving something back by helping people as you now do. It shows that people can change for the better.

 

When my eldest started school about 15 or 16 years ago, and was being bullied, his teacher said that the kids then were being brought into the world by a generation who had different moral values. This was a nice country village school, and she said THEN that the teachers didn't get support from parents and the parents would have a go at the teachers for trying to discipline their kids.

 

I thought then there was little hope for society, but this site proves that there are still good caring people in the world who support each other. Maybe there is still hope, and it's just that the media focus so much on the negatives.

 

I hope Dobby feels some comfort from our support and gets a faint glimmer of hope in this dark and difficult time that not everyone is bad.

[tasty_tang0]

 

I dont understand how people can be raised this way, i hate it if my kids dont say please and thankyou to people.

This may not be the parents here, parents seem to be the ones who always get the blame, this is about individual choice to be anti-social..

 

 

Hey Dobby,

 

how awful for your family, you have my deepest sympathy and my heart goes out to you, I think your courage to give the forum such painful details about your expereince is admirable...Hold onto this strength when fighting for justice!!!!

 

We are more part of a multi nation today, and it is so varied we are not just talking about british people here, it is about a multi-cultural society EDIT!

 

I hope you and your family have the strength to get through this painful period of life together!!!

 

tasty :cry:

[StormWarrior]

We are more part of a multi nation today, and it is so varied we are not just talking about british people here, it is about a multi-cultural society EDIT!

It's not the content of society, it's the size.

Society has passed it's 'critical mass' and like radioactive material, it will sooner or later go bang.

[revolting peasant]

It's the first time I have been reduced to tears reading a thread on CAG, not only in sympathy for DobbyDog and her family but the anger and frustration that the government and the justice system choose to ignore the facts and the weight of public opinion.

 

It isn't really that difficult. Take the thugs off the streets - end of!

 

Maybe it would help if programmes like Eastenders stopped glamourising the thug mentality at a time when impressionable youngsters are likely to be watching.

[PriorityOne]

Maybe it would help if programmes like Eastenders stopped glamourising the thug mentality at a time when impressionable youngsters are likely to be watching.

 

I agree.... but it's not just in programmes. American "gangsta" culture has been glamourised in rap music for some time and it's now over here. Young kids have learned to associate the riches of various rap "artists" with the kind of life they want for themselves.... with no concept of the reality associated with it.

 

I work in a secondary school with a group of (mainly) dysfunctional young lads of around 15-16 years of age who all have the language, dress code and attitude that's advertised/projected and then re-enforced in the useless lyrics that they plug into day after day. Drugs go along with the image, as does alcohol, a negative attitude to the police, courts, prison and/or any type of authority. There is no respect for anyone, other than perhaps other members of their peer group who have fallen foul of the law in some way. In fact, they have grown up to be semi-feral young men.... lacking even the basic moral foundations of what constitutes acceptable behaviour.

 

There is no motivation to get anywhere in life... solutions to problems are always violent and emphasised from an early age; sometimes due to unstable backgrounds and usually also through the kind of computer games/films that they've been allowed to watch by parents/carers, which have become more graphic over the years and are so readily available...

 

There seems to have been a huge lack of foresight from the very people who have promoted and glamourised these lifestyles/forms of entertainment over the years (as part of our celebrity-obssessed culture ) and the result is there for all to see; a society which has bred/cultivated an abundance of feral monsters who simply take what they want, when they want it. Link that to family breakdown and there you have it. Welcome to the modern world. It will take years and years to turn this kind of damage around.... assuming that it's even possible.

[revolting peasant]

Quote from Eastenders on Monday (young "gang leader")

 

"Give me an ASBO - I would love one!"

The saving grace is that most kids are hanging round street corners/off licences/public parks when Eastenders is shown so they wouldn't have seen such a disgraceful incitement in a so called drama.

 

For Christ's sake, what are parents thinking these days. For as long as I was living at home I played by my fathers rules and if I didn't, the consequences were severe.

 

When did parents become afraid of their children rather than the other way round?

[MilkTrayMan]

...When did parents become afraid of their children rather than the other way round?

When women decided that being a 'Single Mum' was a career move + society bent over backwards to accommodate their lifestyle choice!...

[caro]

Not all single mums are single mums by choice MTM, in fact I'd imagine that very few are. For example when my 2 brothers died, their widows became single mums, and my nephews and niece have grown into young people that their fathers would be proud of. My friend who died of cancer last year had a 7 month old baby that her fiance is now raising alone.

 

I know that my examples are the exception, but I'm sure that most single parents never anticipated that they would have to cope alone with a family. Hardly a lifestyle choice, and overlooks the fact that most single mums do a great job in difficult circumstances. Let's not forget the kids with 2 parents who go off the rails too. A very unfair generalisation IMO MTM.