OFT test case

[johnnymitch]

The Test Case been given a write up in the Financial section of the Sunday Express today - (a full page) , and the size of the venue has also been discussed.

 

So, hopefully, that should get it into the thoughts of the people who may be interested, but have put it on the back -burner..............

[ginan]

As for Martin Lewis, the fact that he is a journalist with lots of media contacts and coverage wouldn't have anything to do with his ongoing relationship, would it, by any chance?

 

No none whatsoever. Anyone can form an ongoing relationship with the OFT -It's not diffcult! - unless of course you organise a protest against them, then

it gets a bit tricky.

[JOSH_IOU]

yes pen

[JOSH_IOU]

I thought that was the theme the oft set.

[Bookworm]

No none whatsoever. Anyone can form an ongoing relationship with the OFT -It's not diffcult! - unless of course you organise a protest against them, then it gets a bit tricky.

You really need to get your information a bit more accurately, the protest was not against the OFT, it took place at the OFT, but it was, not so strangely for this site, about bank charges.

 

Incidentally, just to set the record straight, for a very long time, the OFT had NO interest in having any kind of relationship with consumers on this issue, and anyone complaining to them about the way they had been treated by their bank regarding charges would get given the brush-off. (there is a copy of the letter I received from the OFT back in May 06 on this forum). The change of direction only came much, much later, and when ML joined in the battle, a lot of the groundwork had already been done. ML does a sterling job of publicising the cause, which is great, and I am glad he has a good working relationship with the OFT, although I wonder if it would be quite so good if he were just your regular Joe off the street, and in turn, CAG has a good working relationship with MSE and ML. In the end, it all works out pretty good for the consumer, which is what it's all about, after all.

 

I'm sorry, the relevance of this to the upcoming case and its location is... ?

[Guest vortex]

As a moot point, Bookworm, had Martin Lewis not had an article on his website written by Dave from CAG many people may not have found their way here. Martin Lewis could be said to have been technically there from the word go.

[JOSH_IOU]

I rest my case.

 

I simply wish my money was re-payed.

 

You no Northern Rock are gone be nationalised right.

 

Ive got this ridiculous stay thing lifted without any problems with Lloyd's TSB.

 

I have no confidence in any government department that is lead by Labour Party in getting things correct.

 

I simply wish my government to uphold my Human Rights Apparently that costs allot in this case.

[Bookworm]

Moot indeed... The article came after the thread on MSE was gathering momentum after people like Dave, Jonni2Bad and myself were spending a lot of time divided between both sites, and Martin was so impressed by Dave's article that he promoted the article in one of his weekly e-mails, which in turn generated more traffic for both sites. Then Martin did the first of the TMcD programmes about bank charges, and yet more people found out about it, which was the whole point...

 

I'll ask again: What does that have to do with the court case and the size of the courts? It seems to me some people are intent on dragging this thread away from its topic and for the life of me, I can't understand why. :-?

[car2403]

I'll ask again: What does that have to do with the court case and the size of the courts? It seems to me some people are intent on dragging this thread away from its topic and for the life of me, I can't understand why. :-?

 

Well said...

[MacBoy]

Huis-clos, anyone?

 

I don't think even Sartre could've made this up, Bookworm...

 

I am steaming mad about this - it is such a blatant piece of abuse.

[photoman]

Okay.

The venue may not have been of the OFT's choosing, & who knows the logic or reasoning involved in allocating it court time in such an inappropriate manner.

Yes, also agree that there is unlikely to be a last minute change.

 

However, I still think that complaining about this is not completely fruitless.

 

It will hopefully make some influential people (our elected representatives) even more aware, of just how strongly the general public think about the matter of charges on the whole. It will also relay our feelings, that some powers that be have underestimated the importance and significance of what is going on, and are preventing (either by design, lack of interest or oversight) the issues receiving the fuller airing they warrant.

 

By doing so, it may not change the current format, but it may just encourage questions to be raised, & future pressure to be applied to ensure that following stages are not handled with such disregard.

 

PM

 

 

PS: I think the saying "P**s up in a brewery" springs to mind here....... as even the local Weatherspoons would have a greater capacity !!

[psm]

Wild Billy, have the banks provided information on how they calculate their charges? I very much doubt it. The OFT unwittingly came to the rescue of the banks by bringing this action in the first place, otherwise they would still be settling claims on the court steps. The choice of venue is highly unfortunate and it is understandsable that people are suspicious considering the contempt the banks have already shown to its customers and our legal system. I for one have little faith in this action, far too much money is at stake. The banks can afford the very finest legal representation, who do the OFT have?

[missjoy]

Hi all... Just a quick question

 

I seen on BBC website about the case & i currently have a case stayed with Barclaycrud.

 

I take this from the BBC:

Is the end in sight?

Not really.

 

The High Court hearing is expected to last eight days with a judgement being delivered by the court around Easter.

But whichever side loses is highly likely to appeal, possibly all the way to the House of Lords, which means the issue may not be resolved until next year.

 

 

 

 

Does this mean that my case will be stayed till next year? Sorry if that sounds dumb, it seems a long time to wait

[Guest Wild Billy]

[Bookworm]

Sorry, psm, I have to disagree there. The OFT's particulars of claim and response to the banks' defences are actually very good, and cover pretty much all bases. I like the way in particular they make mincemeat of the "service" argument. Of course, this could all fall apart at the first hurdle should the judge decide that the test of fairness doesn't actually apply to the banks, but we'll just have to see what develops. ;-)

[angelsent]

Hi guys

 

There is a protest if anyone can get down to it.

 

Oystar Wrote:

Wednesday - 9.00am in the morning at the International Dispute resolution centre on the strand, just up from the courts of justice, towards saint pauls.

 

 

We're working on getting people down... we'll play the song, there's already going to be plenty of press...

[missjoy]

I take it i asked a stupid question then bookworm?

[zootscoot]

No its not a stupid question. I'm sure many people will be asking much the same thing over the coming weeks and months

 

The test case is essntially divided into two rounds. The first looks at the legal question of whether the UTCCRs apply or whether the charges are capable in law of amounting to a penalty. The second is a question of fact whether the charges are actually unfair or penalties by looking at the costs of the banks in dealing with a customers breach.

 

The test case starting on 16th is only looking at the first issue

 

Once judgment has been handed down there will be an inevitable appeal by the losing party(ies). Leave may be granted by the High court. If leave is denied by the High Court then an application to appeal can be made to either the Court of Appeal or House of Lords if they use the leapfrog procedure. There will be a further few weeks to see if leave has been granted by the appeal court. If leave is refused that is it for the first round.

 

If leave is granted then it will be a further wait for the appeal court. The OFT has said any appeal will be fast tracked (not in the sense of fast track in the county court) but even then you're looking at a minimum of 6mths being optimistic 12 months more likely. If it goes to Court of Appeal there is then a further appeal to the House of Lords possible. If a preliminary ruling from Europe is required this will delay things also.

 

If the banks win on this first stage then end of story.

 

If the OFT is successful, then on to round two to decide whether charges are actually unfair or amount to a penalty. This is the stage where there may be a compromise agreement. If the legal issues are resolved in our favour then its almost certain that the charges are disproportionate or penalties. Its also a question of fact rather than a question of law so is not likely to be subject to an appeal. So the second stage should be shorter than the first. It may well be that stays could be lifted after the first round, but nothing is certain at this stage

[missjoy]

Zootscoot....

 

What an answer! Thanks you very much! That was very informative! Ive picked up more info there than a few hours this evening spent browsing!

 

Top marks & keep up the GREAT work!

 

Appreciated buddy

[photoman]

Excellent summary zootscoot.

 

PM

[JOSH_IOU]

after all its a court of justice and not fact

[JOSH_IOU]

Hi guys

 

There is a protest if anyone can get down to it.

 

Oystar Wrote:

Wednesday - 9.00am in the morning at the International Dispute resolution centre on the strand, just up from the courts of justice, towards saint pauls.

 

 

We're working on getting people down... we'll play the song, there's already going to be plenty of press...

 

Wonder how much train tickets are from Newcastle to London.

[ginan]

I'll ask again: What does that have to do with the court case and the size of the courts? It seems to me some people are intent on dragging this thread away from its topic and for the life of me, I can't understand why. :-?

 

If you insist.

 

''OFT test case moved to tiny room'' Consumer Action Group

 

''...has forced the court to take the unusual step of moving proceedings from the Royal Courts of Justice to a larger venue.'' The Times

 

 

Discuss...

[jonni2bad]

If you insist.

 

''OFT test case moved to tiny room'' Consumer Action Group...

 

Actually this was the wording of Bob Egerton which was published on this site.

 

To be slightly more accurate, he actually stated "small room" and the thread used the word "tiny" room.

 

So, "tiny" and "small".

 

Discuss...

[ginan]

Actually this was the wording of Bob Egerton which was published on this site.

 

To be slightly more accurate, he actually stated "small room" and the thread used the word "tiny" room.

 

So, "tiny" and "small".

 

Discuss...

 

To be even more slightly more accurate the information that the press release

was based on did not contain the words 'tiny' or 'small' and in fact made no reference to the size of the venue which was based on an assumption which niether he or you checked.