Goods paid for, sent and signed for - just not by me!

[barracad]

I could go on but I'm now bored...

 

Good, as I was thinking of commenting on how completely inaccurate post #48 is, but I really can't be bothered...

[Annoying Twit]

Don't be ridiculous. The item has been sent, signed for and delivered! But not received!

 

What more does the sender have to do? Personally deliver it?

 

The seller has to take the matter up with the courier, who have failed to keep their side of the contract that the seller had with them. Assuming that the item was not delivered to the correct person.

[Alastrum]

Mmmm, there seems to be a lot of disagreement here.

All I can add, as someone who has experienced exactly the same problem from both ends, as both a buyer and a seller, is that my personal experience tallies with what Barracad has been saying.

When my Recorded Delivery item hadn't shown up, I contacted the seller, who told me that it had been sent, and gave me a tracking number. I looked this up on RM's website, and was quite disconcerted to see that it had apparently been delivered and signed for. The signature bore no resemblance to my own, and was clearly a different name to my own. It was clear therefore, that the postman had given the parcel to someone else, who had signed (presumably) their own name, not forged my signature. There was no indication or record of the actual address that the postman had delivered to. It couldn't have been my address, as there was no-one in on the day the item was alleged to have been delivered, so it MUST, by clear logic, have been given to someone NOT the addressee, and NOT residing at the address on the parcel's label, which in turn must have been a clear violation of any contract the seller may have had with RM.

The fault therefore, seems to obviously reside (in my particular case) with RM, who have failed to deliver both to the correct person and/or at the correct address. It would seem therefore that the obvious thing to do would be to complain to RM.

However, when I attempted to do just this, I was told by RM that the seller had to instigate the complaint, as it was the seller who had paid for the postage. In my case, the seller obliged, and eventually I received a form from RM in which I had to confirm non-receipt of the item.

 

In my particular case, the "missing" item eventually arrived back at the seller's some two months later, who duly informed me and posted it back to me, so a happy ending for me. However, the question of what had actually happened to the item in the interim period was never resolved.

 

It seems clear from the disagreements in this thread that either a) RM have no standardised policy regarding missing items, or b) they do, but fail miserably to communicate said policy to their employees, who as a result misinform their customers. Or very possibly c) RM are just crap.

 

But certainly, my personal experience is that it is the seller who must make the complaint, and therefore the OP's first port of call is to complain to the seller, not RM. The OP will get their chance to confirm to RM that they have not received their item later, during RM's investigation, but RM will not register any complaint from the buyer until the seller has made one.

 

The bottom line is that items perceived to be valuable stand a risk of being stolen en route. Sad, but inescapably true. The whole system rests on everyone in the chain from seller to buyer being honest, and little more.

[crash3903]

Why does the Op not get a refund via paypal dispute and the seller claim

[barracad]

Why does the Op not get a refund via paypal dispute and the seller claim

 

That is exactly what has been suggested all along. However, Paypal are a law unto their own and may well side with the seller, in which case he will need to take it up directly with the seller.

 

Having said that, OP hasn't been online for a fortnight so issue may well be resolved, will have to wait for an update before we can understand what the realistic next steps will be.

[crash3903]

From what i have seen it has been a battle of comments and I only saw one post about paypal dispute

 

Seems to me the thread got lost in 1 upmanship

[IdaInFife]

Hi Crash,

 

What has been presumed that seller has a sig from recorded delivery so a paytpal dispute will be useless.......

 

 

Op come back .............

 

We need to know if you have the tracking number?

 

 

 

Idax

[make them aktiv runners]

When my Recorded Delivery item hadn't shown up, I contacted the seller, who told me that it had been sent, and gave me a tracking number. I looked this up on RM's website, and was quite disconcerted to see that it had apparently been delivered and signed for. The signature bore no resemblance to my own, and was clearly a different name to my own. It was clear therefore, that the postman had given the parcel to someone else, who had signed (presumably) their own name, not forged my signature. There was no indication or record of the actual address that the postman had delivered to.

 

The above part of your post is what created the discussion, ie should you do any chasing whatsoever yourself with RM (even obtaining signature yourself).

[Alastrum]

Yes, but any chasing I might do myself is purely for my own knowledge, just so I know what's going on. It doesn't actually help to resolve the situation at all. Besides, all I can find out is what RM chooses to tell me, and if that's erroneous, it doesn't help at all. The problem with RM's tracking system is that it only works as it should when an item is successfully delivered to the correct person at the correct address. And when that happens, who needs to track it and check the signature? The system should be more helpful to people with missing post, not people who have had items delivered, as they are not the ones who need it. Utterly pointless system, if you ask me.

[patdavies]

The system should be more helpful to people with missing post,

 

Yes, it should

 

not people who have had items delivered, as they are not the ones who need it. Utterly pointless system, if you ask me.

No, wrong.

 

As hundreds (thousands?) of posts on here state, when dealing with banks, retailers, dca, S.A.R - (Subject Access Request), etc. you should always use recorded delivery in order to have proof of said delivery.

[crash3903]

Hi Crash,

 

What has been presumed that seller has a sig from recorded delivery so a paytpal dispute will be useless.......

 

Maybe maybe not - If the seller is unable to prove that the delivery went to the right address then there may be a case for paypal to refund the cash

[postggj]

I Dont Want To Get Into A Debate Over This But I Am Employed By Royal Mail

If A Letter Posted By Recorded/special Is Not Received It Is Down To The Sender To Complete The Missing Item Form, Along With Tracking Number, And Receipt For Proof Of Posting

 

What I Can Tell You Is A Very Large Ammount Of Mail Is Returned To Sender. The Reason For This Is Very Poor Address Given.

I Know This As That Is My Job

If Any Body Has Call For Complaint The Sorting Office Is The First Call.

Postmen/women Take There Integraty Personel And Would Assist In Any Way Which They Can TO HELP THE RECEIVER

[crash3903]

I Dont Want To Get Into A Debate Over This

 

Neither do I which is why I suggested the sender claims and quite rightly pointed out by your good self

[Alastrum]

you should always use recorded delivery in order to have proof of said delivery.

 

I think you misunderstood. I didn't mean that it was wrong not to have proof you posted an item: of course that's a given!

 

What I meant was that the system falls down when something goes wrong: Yes, the sender has their slip of paper that proves they sent the item, but if the item is delivered successfully to the intended recipient, and therefore the correct details are recorded, who looks at it? If there is no complaint from sender or receiver, why would anyone look up the data? So the system works when everything goes right, but no-one views the data that's been recorded. But when an item goes missing, only then is there a need to look at the data; but because something's gone wrong, incorrect data is recorded, making it pointless looking it up.

What's needed is a system that, instead of being helpful when no help is required, and unhelpful precisely when help is required, works for the benefit of someone who's post goes missing, not for the benefit of someone who's post doesn't.

[barracad]

What's needed is a system that, instead of being helpful when no help is required, and unhelpful precisely when help is required, works for the benefit of someone who's post goes missing, not for the benefit of someone who's post doesn't.

 

There is. The Royal Mail version of this is called "Special Delivery", and is more expensive than Recorded Delivery - other carriers offer similar services.

 

At the end of the day, you get what you pay for - you pay a few extra pence for the Recorded Delivery service and all you get is a service which offers confirmation of delivery, the item is not tracked throughout its journey. If you want to keep track of the item so that you can establish where a problem has occurred and have more chance of locating the item if it goes astray, then you need to spend the extra and use a service which has a tracking service, such as Special Delivery.

 

Unfortunately, some people for whatever reason think Recorded Delivery means that somebody is going to courier your one individual letter and deliver it to the recipient on a velvet cushion - it's not a realistic expectation for the extra 70p (or however much it is ) you pay, and this is where the service falls down.