konakona Vs Red debt collection (sky)

[konakona]

Back Ground

Just before everything went pearshaped, we changed from Sky to NTL for the broadband deal. Rather stupidly though, as it was in the 1st year, so bang to rights, you have to pay up untill the end the 12 month contract. However no contact was made asking for payment, untill end of last year when the DCA started sending letters! By my calculations the debt is tripple the amount of the remainder of the contract period. Since then only paid the bare minium to keep DCA happy.

 

 

CCA Request posted yesterday by recorded delivery.

[Curlyben]

Sorry to say but this ISN'T covered by CCA at all.

 

We'll wait and see what RED have to say for themselves.

[konakona]

Thanks yet again CurlyBen:D (you are good to me!)

 

Shame it not covered by a CCA, but still the thought of them searching for something that doesnt exist has bought a smile to my face!

(please dont tell me they wont bother looking and spoil my mental image lol)

[Hippy-chick]

LOL Konakona - yup, it's me - stalking you again.

 

 

You can, of course, SAR them and challenge any unfair charges - can't you?

[ThisVeryMoment]

No, because there aren't any unfair charges. Time to pay up methinks!

[konakona]

CCA Request Delivered yesterday 17/12/07

[Hippy-chick]

Let's see what they do with this one!

[konakona]

 

 

 

Ohhhhhhhhhh, the letter is dated the day after they got the CCA request so they didnt spend as much time looking for it as I had hoped:-(

 

So whats the next step from here?

I've read so many bad things about Red, that it seems only fair to make them work for their money, "what goes around comes around" and all that! This debt is not for much, so I guess I can aford to play around with them a bit!

 

I was thinking, if it is not regulated by a CCA, what is it regulated by?

 

I've read a lot on here about making sure the DCA your dealing with is leagaly allowed to collect the debt on behalf of the creditor, if they are not covered by the CCA, how do I ensure they are really acting on behalf of sky and are not just some 14yr old [EDIT]?

[Curlyben]

Wellll try this:

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

[konakona]

Thanks Curlyben!

You really are too good to me!

 

I like it! I like it a LOT!

(dont think they will, which makes me like it even more!)

 

I'll get it in the post in the morning:D

[konakona]

 

 

Happy New Year All!

 

Hope you all had a good and DCA free Christmas!

(I havent heard a peep from mine its been great:D )

 

I got this reply to curlybens letter today.

Seems that Red have passed my account accross the office to Hampton leagal.........Nice to know I'm wearing out their carpet:D

 

Apparently they called at my home between the red letter (18/12/07) and the hampton letter (31/12/07), which is really strange as there was someone here constantly between these dates!

The post mark on hamptons letter was dated 18/1/08 nearly 3 weeks after the date on the letter that gave me 7 days to respond...........

(for leagal reasons I wont call them lying, **** sucking, bottom feeding bar stewards)

 

I'm planning on sending curlybens letter to hampton leagal, but as always, I open to suggestions!

[ODC]

Home visit agent my arse. No-one called. They sent me an identical letter. I have written and asked them for the name of the agent and the date and time of his alleged visit as I had already warned them in writing about these Licensed Field Agents being treated as trespassers. Strangely enough they have not supplied such details. I wonder why. I dont really because I know this is just another porkie pie (allegedly) from the alleged purveyors of falsehoods

[konakona]

Hi ODC!

 

Didnt really think for a moment that they had sent an agent round!

Reassurring to know that its not just me they bulls##t..........makes me feel part of a group!

 

As I have I'm "poking the bear" I thought I that the best method would be to use as bigger stick as possible and preffably as sharp as possible!

So I've just knocked up a bit of a frankenstien letter, robbed from letters I found on here and bits nicked from the oft website.......any opinions would be gratefully recieved!

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

You have contacted me regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself.

 

I am very disappointed that you have ignored my two previous letters.

 

I would point out that I have no knowledge of any such debt being owed

 

Please provide me with proof of your lawful right to claim any money from me and why you believe that you have any contractual right to be processing my personal data.

 

I am are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my liability for the debt in question.

 

I note from you letter dated the 31/12/07 that a home visit agent called at my address.

As your company took over this account on or after the 18/12/07 I am assuming that your agent will have called between the 18th and 31st of December 2007, however having reviewed the video footage taken at my property during this period I can not find any evidence that such agent did in fact call.

I put it to you that your claim of a home visit is in fact false and further more a deliberate attempt to deceive and mislead myself.

I would appreciate it if you would supply myself with the time and date of the alleged home visit, along with the name and registered office of the agent to enable me to verify your claim.

 

I would like to draw your attetion to the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines

 

Debt collection guidance

Final guidance on unfair business practices

July 2003 (updated December 2006)

UNFAIR BUSINESS PRACTICES

 

Communication 2.1

a.It is unfair to communicate, in whatever form, with consumers in an unclear,

inaccurate or misleading manner.

 

b. leaving out or presenting information in such a way that it

creates a false or misleading impression or exploits debtors'

lack of knowledge

 

f. contacting debtors at unreasonable times, for example during public holidays

 

g. ignoring or disregarding debtors' legitimate wishes in respect

of when and where to contact them, for example, shift workers who

ask not to be telephoned during certain times of the day

 

Debt collection visits

f. visiting or threatening to visit debtors without prior agreement when the

debt is deadlocked or disputed

 

g. not giving adequate notice of the time and date of a visit2

 

False representation of authority and/or legal position

2.4

d. falsely implying or stating that action has been taken when it has not, for

example, that civil action has been taken or that a court judgment has

already been obtained

 

Deceptive and/or unfair methods

2.7 Dealings with debtors are not to be deceitful and/or unfair.

 

 

 

Please be advised that I am only prepared to communicate with you in writing.

 

OFT rules and regulations clearly state that you can only visit me at my home if you make an appointment and I have no wish to make an appointment with you.

 

There is only an implied license under English Common Law for people to be able to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.)

.Therefore take note that I revoke license under Common Law for you, or your representatives, to visit me at my property

If you persist in sending "doorstep callers" to my home, you will be reported for harassment and be liable for damages for a tort of trespass.

You would also be liable for conspiring in a tort of trespass by acting in defiance of my instructions and sending someone to visit me nevertheless.

Should it be necessary, I will obtain an injunction.

 

 

I also note that you letter dated 31/12/07 states that I have 7 day to contact you or you shall start court proccedings against me.

This letter was not received until 22/1/08 and was post marked 18/1/07.

Again I would draw your attention to:

 

Office of Fair Trading guidelines 2.1.a

 

It is unfair to communicate, in whatever form, with consumers in an unclear,

inaccurate or misleading manner.

 

1.1 The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) has a duty under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

to ensure that licences are only given to and retained by those who are fit to hold

them. The Act provides that the OFT take into account any circumstances which

appear to be relevant and in particular any evidence that an applicant, licensee, or

their employees, agents or business associates, past or present, have:

• committed offences involving fraud, or other dishonesty or violence

• failed to comply with the requirements of credit or other consumer

legislation

• practised discrimination in connection with their business

• engaged in business practices appearing to us to be deceitful, oppressive or

otherwise unfair or improper (whether unlawful or not).

 

I will be vigorously defending any court action.

 

As you are aware, under the pre-action protocols of the Civil Procedure Rules,

 

I am entitled in order to enable me to file a defence and counter-claim lawfully entitled to request specific information regarding the account, to be provided forthwith.

 

Given that you have stated that this matter may be subject to legal proceedings, if you decide to embark on this course of action, you are obliged to disclose under the rules, the following information and documents must be supplied to me as detailed below;

 

If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

IN RESPECT OF THE ALLEGED DEBT CLAIMED, I REQUIRE:

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of any default and at the time the account was opened.

 

 

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of the loan and any repayments made to it the account.

 

 

b. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

 

c. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account.

 

d. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you

hold.

 

e. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

 

f. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

 

g. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

 

h. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

 

i. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

 

j. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

 

k. A copy of all account statements for the duration of the agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

4. A copy of your complaints procedure, as required by the Consumer Credit Act 2006.

 

5. Clarification of the date you acquired the debt, what organisation you acquired it from, their registered office, their company number (if any) and what legal title they had to this debt, and what credit license number they had at the time that the debt was purchased or entered into.

 

 

Note:

 

In my lawful requests dated to you on 11/12 & 18/12 2007

I clearly requested a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the account in dispute. A “true copy” means a first generation copy of the actual signed document or evidence as to my liability for the alleged debt.

 

This document should be readily available as proof of your or your clients legal right to collect this account.

 

Your failure to provide this documentation within the statutory time limits means you and/or your client have committed a summary criminal offence.

 

I will be highlighting this at any court hearing.

 

However due to the vexatious nature of your correspondence I reserve the right to make formal complaints against you and your client to Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading to whom I may now send copies of our correspondence as evidence.

 

Please be aware that I am logging all correspondence with you with regards to this matter and will be charging for time at the rate of £11.42 (national average) per hour as part of my counterclaim against any action you or I may take.

 

 

I await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I trust you will deal with this matter using all due diligence.

 

Yours sincerely,

konakona

[Hippy-chick]

Chuck it at them konakona.

 

Good to see you fighting.

 

[konakona]

Finally got a response to my letter...........

They have very generously decided that I can only have to pay back half the original amount!

 

Now I'm in two minds of what to do next, this debt was never for a large amount, and now its been halfed I could pay it off easily.............BUT......

 

Since coming here I have become very angry at the way these DCA's get away with their dodgy practices, and now I've got a wounded bear thats backing away, part of me wants to carry on poking it!

 

So really not sure on what path to take.....

[Curlyben]

Unbelievable really.

You have asked for official proof yet they still demand payment !!

 

Time to give Consumer Direct a call and explain the situation.

They will likely pass your complaint onto Trading Standards for action.

[ODC]

Offering you a 50% discount. How generous. They are hardly doing this out of the kindness of their hearts. They are obviously experiencing some difficulty proving the debt. Do as CB says and report their sorry asses.

[konakona]

Thanks Curly Ben & ODC!

 

You've convinced me, I'll get my poking stick back out and give consumer direct a call!

 

The've not sent me a scrap of evidence that they have the right to collect, so its only fair lol:D