DVLA - Continuous Registration......

[F.P]

As per title I am being harassed by the good old DVLA for £80.

 

I sold a car back in June and it was exported to Gremany. However, I lost the little slip that you notify them with. No problem, I thought, I'll email them and get their advice on how to notify them.

 

I emailed and got a reply within 24hrs. The reply said, no worries, just fax the email you have notified us with and sign it, as a signature is required. I did this and heard nothing.

 

Then, around 10 weeks later I got the fine through the post saying I had failed to tax the car and that I now owed them £80 (£40 for a qiuck payment) for this 'offence'.

 

I wrote back, including a copy of the email I sent them and explained that they had said to fax.

 

Nothing heard........

 

The, 3 days ago I got another demand - this time for the full £80 and the threat of CCJs, clamping and debt collectors.

 

Pointers?

 

My main get out clause is that the car was only ever registered to a Mr ********. No first name was ever on the V5, and there are other Mr ****** at my address - so they can't link the registration to one person.

 

Can they summons to court, or issue a CCJ to someone whose full name they do not know? Surely not.

 

I'm fuming with these idiots. The fact that abided by their request only for it to be ignored, coupled with my letter showing proof I contacted them (which I still have) shows them to be completely mercenary.

 

Any help would be appreciated. I'm not paying them a penny.

 

Thanks in advance.

[buzby]

A first name is not mandatory - but if the vehicle was exported, the issue is did you sell it to someone in the UK FOR export, or did you export it yourself? If the former, what the new purchaser did is irrelevant. If you have proof of the email you sent to them, then contact to Poole office (Continuous Registration) that you wish the matter reviewed as you no longer have the vehicle and you provided them with a signed declaration to that effect. It might also be worth checking whether they STILL have you down as the Registered Keeper, which seems likely.

[F.P]

A first name is not mandatory - but if the vehicle was exported, the issue is did you sell it to someone in the UK FOR export, or did you export it yourself? If the former, what the new purchaser did is irrelevant. If you have proof of the email you sent to them, then contact to Poole office (Continuous Registration) that you wish the matter reviewed as you no longer have the vehicle and you provided them with a signed declaration to that effect. It might also be worth checking whether they STILL have you down as the Registered Keeper, which seems likely.

 

I sold the vehicle to a visiting German who took it straight for export. He drove away in it on trade plates.

 

I am no longer the reistered keeper - DVLA have it listed as "has told DVLA is no longer keeper". So they received my notification at some stage.

 

The part I am getting at is can a CCJ be issued to a Mr ********** from an address that other Mr ************s reside at? We can't all be given a CCJ. The DVLA do not know my 1st name and can't assume from other vehicles registered that a first name from another car is the same as mine......

 

I do have the email I sent them but have already sent a copy of it to them - which they have chosen to ignore and again, request 'their' £80.

 

I am first going to reply to the DVLA asking them which Mr ********* they are accusing of this 'crime'. If they can't identify the exact Mr *********** what are their options?

 

I'm quite happy to attend court, but obviously would rather not.

[buzby]

You have no liability if the V5 was signed by the new owner and you posted it to them (Page 1-2). You will have received a letter confirming you are no longer the RK. This would be your evidence of not being the RK, but ONLY if the vehicle was taxed at the time of sale. If they are pursuing you for any period up to and including the date the RK change, it would be hard to dispute.]

 

As for the court - CCJs only are issued when the defender loses, if your paperwork is in order you've nothing to worry about. As for the lack of a first name, I think a judge would be unsympathetic if only this was missing, if it wasn't on the V5 (for whatever reason) then he could contend the lack of it was your fault too!

[F.P]

The new owner didn't fill out the V5 as he jumped in the car and drove it to Germany. I gave him the whole V5 (minus the export bit) as instructed on the document.

 

I wasn't the exporter - but was informing them of its export.

 

My point with the lack of 1st name is that there are 3 of us with the same surname, so would the DVLA drop it on this technicality to save all the hassle of court? Probably not.

 

I have all the evidence to prove them wrong - but I have sent them this and they are still pushing for the cash.

 

I assume they think/work on the bully system as 99.99% of people just roll over and pay.

 

I think I will send a letter asking them which Mr ********* they are fining. It will, at least, put another bit of work on someone's desk....

[buzby]

Your problem still remains that as you weren't the exporter, you filled out the wrong part of the form. However, you've still not confirmed whether there was tax due on the vehicle at the date you advised them of the sale. Do remember, there are different departments involved - Poole will pursue you for continuous registration if there was a gap, irrespective of what Swansea consider about the export.

[F.P]

I filled out the export slip as requested.

 

If I hadn't then the car would have remained in my name. The V5 says to give the whole V5 to the foreign buyer and send them the purple bit to notify of its exportation, so I complied. It merely says to fill out the slip, enter the date of exportation and send off. The exporter if not uk based has no dealings with the DVLA.

 

I'm getting the letters from Glasgow - Alhambra Hse, BTW.

 

Also, when I bought the car I filled the V5 out with my full name. The V5 came back with Mr ***********, missing my 1st name.

 

Tax wasn't due on the car when it was taken out of the country as I had the disk in my possession for about a week after it went.

[buzby]

You weren't the exporter - so who requested it? This slip is ONLY for the RK exporting the vehicle, not a new owner. I know what you are saying, but unless the new owner registers the vehicle with the DVLA you remain liable until the DVLA acknowledge you are not. You say you retained the tax disc - did you return it for a refund? If so, it will be this that is causing the continuous registration glitch. Alhambra House don't deal with CR violations, this is dealt with by an outside agency (Capita) in Poole - but Glasgow do deal in export issues.

 

I do think you'll be best served in trying to resolve the issue at source, than try to get off on a name technicality!

[F.P]

I've done this exact same thing several times in the past without problem, and with DVLA replying saying the car is now out of my registration. If you look at a V5 it says the registered keeper is responsible for notifying DVLA of a car's exportation if selling to a person who is taking it out of the country! The new keeper is German so isn't bothered re the the DVLA, so has no dealings. He will have registered it in Germany......

 

I've just checked another V5 and it clearly says to inform if the car is being exported as it's my responsibility to notify them it has left the country. I did all that as usual and now find myself with this fine.

 

I've written them a letter saying there are X amount of Mr *********s at this address and request they say which of us is ther intended 'target'.

 

 

Edited to say:

 

the 1st time I sold a car to a foreign national who was taking the car out of the country for good, I checked with DVLA on how to notify them and the above procedure was their reply, so it's definitely the way to do it.

[danny_kiernan]

Hi F.P.

 

Welcome to the forum,

 

Firstly Buzby is right, it's no use haggling about a first name, someone will have to pay the fine in the end - if no-one turns up at court that is.

 

Heres what you need to do anyway:

 

1) Write a letter to the DVLA explaining all the circumstances, plus use my template to show the laws you are enacting. Send this registered post (if you feel cheeky send an invoice for the postage cost with it )

 

2) If they do take you to court, take along all the evidence you have, to show the judge. If they start saying they received no details from you, show them the evidence above and advise the judge that they are just trying to hide behind the lost-in-post [problem].

 

If they do take it to court, I am quite happy to go through the paperwork first and also attend court with you (should you need it).

 

PM me if you need any help:)

 

Dani

[patdavies]

 

1) Write a letter to the DVLA explaining all the circumstances, plus use my template to show the laws you are enacting.

 

Such a powerful user is F.P.

 

I was under the distinct impression that only parliament can enact laws:rolleyes:

[F.P]

Hi F.P.

 

Welcome to the forum,

 

Firstly Buzby is right, it's no use haggling about a first name, someone will have to pay the fine in the end - if no-one turns up at court that is.

 

Heres what you need to do anyway:

 

1) Write a letter to the DVLA explaining all the circumstances, plus use my template to show the laws you are enacting. Send this registered post (if you feel cheeky send an invoice for the postage cost with it )

 

2) If they do take you to court, take along all the evidence you have, to show the judge. If they start saying they received no details from you, show them the evidence above and advise the judge that they are just trying to hide behind the lost-in-post [problem].

 

If they do take it to court, I am quite happy to go through the paperwork first and also attend court with you (should you need it).

 

PM me if you need any help:)

 

Dani

 

Cheers for the advice.

 

I'll write (another) letter explaining my standpoint, and see what they say. It just seems that they are court-happy with most people.

 

I have no reservations about attending court as I have been in the stand at many a Crown/Mags over the last few years . It just seems a waste of my time having to mess around with all this.

 

It's made even more infuriating as I complied with them down to the letter, and faxed them the requested info 2 minutes after receiving the email from them!

 

I think I will invoice them for the next letter I send and stick in a labour charge for my time too - just for fun.........

 

One thing is for sure -I'm not paying them unless ordered to by a magistrate.

[Oh Boy!]

Continuous Registration......IS A CIVIL OFFENCE NOT CRIMINAL

 

So you will not be going to the Mags/Crown.

 

Secondly, if the DVLA hold only a surname of the reg document, they need to identify the keeper with the first name, thats why we have first names.

 

No point if Mr Smith is on the log book, what are they going to do drag everyone into court with the surname smith at the same address.

 

Return mail not known, comes to mind... but seeing as you already replied, no doubt you put your name on the letters, first and second.

 

So Stick to your guns tell them you advised them accordingly.

 

To by pass all this do an affidavit swearing that on this day that day to this fax number i send documents to DVLA who's address is.... go to the county court get it stamped free of charge.

 

And shove it at DVLA.

 

Let me know how it goes! (all of us i mean)

[F.P]

Continuous Registration......IS A CIVIL OFFENCE NOT CRIMINAL

 

So you will not be going to the Mags/Crown.

 

I know. I was simply saying that court doesn't scare me - I attend court quite frequently and give evidence, but Crown/Mags. I was getting my ass toasted by a barrister only a couple of days ago

 

I never put a first name on any previous correspondance with them, so they only know me as Mr ***********. In any case, had I have put my first name on any letter to them it doesn't mean they can say I am the keeper as they only have me registered as Mr **********.

 

I will write back with all the pointers listed here and also press for them to identify who they want to fine.

 

I love a good fight - particularly as I'm right!

[danny_kiernan]

Such a powerful user is F.P.

 

I was under the distinct impression that only parliament can enact laws:rolleyes:

 

Ok mr silly, Invoke - not enact, it was late at night gimme a break.

 

Dani

[F.P]

Well, it's still ongoing!!

 

I wrote to them in October asking them who they were trying to fine as there are a few of here with the same surname. They replied in 48hrs with a letter addressed to me with my first name listed.

 

I ignored them for a while until I got a letter with the final demand enclsoed last week - took them 3 months to send me that one.

 

I replied saying please take me to court as I have all the proof needed to win, and requested how they can prove I didn't comply, adding I can prove I did.

 

I got a letter yesterday saying my letter had been passed to a Mrs J Lamont, office manager and I will receive her reply after her full attention shortly.

 

Should be interesting.

[F.P]

Victory is mine.

 

Just received a rather long, personally written and signed letter from Mrs Lamont saying they have cancelled the penalty charge along with an apology for leaving me with a negative view of the DVLA.

 

It lists that they did search for my responses but they do process over 100 million transaction per year and aknowledge that errors can be made.

 

It goes on to say that they realise I am not a law breaker and that I did not attempt to (deliberately) evade my responsibilities.

 

It only took 7 months to get them to cancel this, but persistence and not caving in to threats does sometimes work. Thanks for the above help.

 

What a nice way to start the day;)

[advisee]

Congrats. But do check what the correct procedure is for the next time you sell a vehicle to someone who exports it.

 

My own feeling (based on many years of dealing with DVLA in a professional capacity) is that you should either send the "notification of sale/transfer to a motor trader" slip to Swansea (and give the german guy the left hand page to do what he wants to with) or otherwise put his details on the left hand page, and send this to Swansea.

 

Note that the section about permanent export (where you can tick a box) says "Note - this will NOT produce an export certificate".

 

Rule number one - cover your own back, don't be swayed by a buyer/trader that they are right and you are wrong!

[F.P]

I did check re the correct procedure and followed it. The issue was that the DVLA denied receiving confirmation of the car's sale.

[danny_kiernan]

Well done F.P