11 months - Sacked no reason.

[robert_harper_2000]

So should I await for the other one to advise the next course of action?

[tiglet]

I really would Ell-enn really knows the best procedures etc. and it would be better do this sort of thing correctly from the start.

 

It's soooo tempting to start taking action immediately, but sometimes it's better to wait

 

I'm off out now but i would suggest having a google on wrongful dismissal etc. and you will see what it's all about.

 

Also, your GF has 3 months from when she was dismissed to take them to a tribunal, so a small wait to get it right won't make any difference.

[robert_harper_2000]

Brilliant! It is such a relief to know I have support and it isn't all to the businesses!

 

Cheers everyone

[Ell-enn]

Hi Robert, sorry for delay - I've been really busy at work and didn't see your post till this morning..

 

Anyway.....regardless of whether she has a written contract ( she should have been given one within 2 months of starting) it is unreasonable to discipline an employee for doing something wrong that they haven't had any training to do - were there any training records for her job?

Employers have to be seen to be acting reasonably at all times. Tribunals will not only look at whether the company acted reasonably but also how any other reasonable company would have acted. If your girlfriend has had no written warnings, letters or minutes of meetings regarding her performance then I think she had a case for wrongful dismissal i.e. Wrongful dismissal is different from unfair dismissal. It's where your employer breaches your contract in dismissing you, normally by dismissing you without notice or without following a procedure required by your contract. A dismissal can be both wrongful and unfair. If she has no written contract - how does she know what the terms of ending the contract are?

 

It looks to me as if they are the type of employer who gets rid of staff just before their 12 months service is complete in order to get around the legislation. It would be interesting to find out how many staff they have dismissed over the last few years who have less than 12 months service. Is there any way you could find out?

[rbrears]

What was the exact start date of her employment?

[tiglet]

Thanks Ell-enn - thought you might give the correct advice!

 

(tried to give you rep, but apparently I'm being too kind at the moment and it won't let me )

[Ell-enn]

thanks for the thought Tiglet

[tiglet]

It's what counts, every time xxx

[robert_harper_2000]

Started work 22-11-2006 was phone and sacked 20-10-07 notice to end 31-10-07.

 

No training, no proof of any training either or a suggestion of training!

 

Thanks

[robert_harper_2000]

The only written warning was the one I mentioned and they phoned up to apologise about it as it shouldn't have been issued and would be retracted (I don't know if they took it off her record but she didn't receive a retracted statement).

[Ell-enn]

In that case I don't see how they can dismiss her without any documented evidence of her poor performance. Are you sure she has never received a contract showing her rate of pay, hours of work, notice period etc?

[robert_harper_2000]

no he was intending to send her a temp contract but as far as I know never did. I'll speak to my gf tonight. Cheers Ell-enn

[robert_harper_2000]

She was told she would be e-mailed a temp contract this was back in November 2006 but this never actually was sent.

 

No contract

 

One of her bosses just phoned up and said they would help her look for a new job! 'Thanks' guess we should be grateful

[robert_harper_2000]

When they phoned they did mention that if she hadn't received a written warning earlier then they wouldn't have fired her! She replied that it was retracted and they just didn't say much.

Crazy!

[Ell-enn]

Hi Robert, well it looks to me as if they're not following any procedure, so she needs to write to them claiming her dismissal was wrongful (I don't suppose she has a copy of their disciplinary and grievance procedure?). As I said earlier - if she hasn't got a contract how does she know the terms and conditions which have to be met to end it? I'll put together something over the weekend and post it (probably later on tomorrow, if that's OK).

 

Do you have any information about the exact reasons given regarding her poor performance - there must have been some discussion about what she was doing wrong, and if there was - they should have documented it. If they haven't any written records of her disciplinary warning how do they expect to substantiate her dismissal? They sound a right lot!!! Incidentaly - without naming the company - what sort of business is it and what size (approx employees).

 

Sorry about all the questions but when you are not personally involved it's important to get as many facts as possible in order to give the right response. Trust you understand.

 

Regards Ell-enn.

If you feel I have been helpful, please feel free to tip my scales

[Ell-enn]

Just a thought - did your girlfriend receive an offer letter when she first got the job confirming her salary, date of starting etc?

[robert_harper_2000]

No offer letter

Salary everything was just verbal.

 

I don't suppose she has a copy of their disciplinary and grievance procedure?

Never given anything about this

 

I'll put together something over the weekend and post it

That would be fantastic!

 

Do you have any information about the exact reasons given regarding her poor performance - there must have been some discussion about what she was doing wrong, and if there was - they should have documented it.

Post 9 is the e-mail they sent after sacking her. Other than that there were 3 discussions

1. & 2 were in a pub and were more informal chats talked about performance but were talking how it was also down to her current boss not doing things.

3 was the written warning which they apologised for and said "shouldn't have been given that it should have been a chat".

 

what sort of business is it and what size (approx employees)

small independent Internet company with 4 directors and around 9 staff gf only knew of the directors and about 5 staff. They hired more recently apparently.

[Ell-enn]

Thanks for info Robert -sounds like they've either not got an HR department or any credible HR advice - unlike you lol.

 

As I said, I will post something tomorrow.... hopefully they will take her complaint seriously.

[robert_harper_2000]

That would be excellent! I just can't believe they can treat her like this. You should help ACAS they have no idea. They advised me I could write back asking them to reconsider I asked if they had to take it seriously or if they could just say "thanks, but no thanks" ACAS said there is nothing you could do as she hasn't worked there 12 months.

[Ell-enn]

Did you actually give ACAS all the facts? i.e. no contract, fired by email, no training, no disciplinary procedure etc. However, the letter I will be constructing will be asking them to reconsider - but it will also be pointing out all the things they have done wrong in the process !!!

[robert_harper_2000]

I mentioned to ACAS no contract and she was fired over the phone with no warning etc but all they cared about was she hadn't worked there for more than 12 months....

I've been reading abit about this and it seems it is wrongful dismissal as it was carried out incorrectly and it wasn't gross misconduct. However it mentions the employee should be given due notice and technically they have let her work until 31-10-07. Compensation seems to be what she has lost- which would be her job but surely they aren't expected to pay her forever?

 

Appreciate your time on this, thanks!!!

[tiglet]

Told you Ell-enn would sort it ...

 

Ell-enn - we love you!!!

[robert_harper_2000]

here here lol

[Ell-enn]

Thanks - these kind of employers really get me mad:shock:

 

It would also be helpful if you could let me know the "chain of command" in the business, i.e. your girlfriend's boss (title) his boss (title) etc in other words "who reports to whom" . BTW what was her job title and duties - given the type of employer we're dealing with I don't suppose she was ever given a job description? no? thought not..............................

[robert_harper_2000]

no job description or title... I'll pm you the chain of command.

 

Wish I could do more to help you