Liability order (Council Tax) - some clarification, please

[kraygerson]

When a local authority succeeds in obtaining a liability order for Council tax,

they normally pass the matter to a firm of bailiffs,

who will be tasked with collecting outstanding monies.

 

These act as though they have carte blanche to add all manner of dreamt up charges and generally make a debtor's life miserable.

 

This I understand.

 

Here is where I need some help, please.

 

Suppose the local authority.. no, I really must stop that ..

. bailiffs commence action,

but for whatever reason do not make much progress.

 

The bailiffs pass the matter back to the Council, who passes it to another firm of bailiffs and so on and so forth.

 

Time passes. Now, almost 10 years have elapsed since the liability order was obtained.

 

Is there a time limit for these things?

Does a liability order 'expire'?

If so, what happens then?

Can the Council simply obtain another one?

 

What should a person who finds themselves in such a position do?

 

All advice appreciated. Definitive answers particularly welcome.

[The Watcher]

As I understand it (and it has been discussed on these boards quite recently), Liability Orders do not "expire" and the debt remains outstanding.

[kraygerson]

Thank you for the reply.

[Renta Mouth]

As I understand it (and it has been discussed on these boards quite recently), Liability Orders do not "expire" and the debt remains outstanding.

 

You might want to look into that.

 

The debt is always outstanding and only a death certificate will cancel it unless revoked.

 

Long story short:

 

In the middle east, British Liability Orders are prohibited because its impossible to defend the application of one in the magistrates court and therefore classed as (in english translation) guilty before proven innocent, afforded in it can be revoked retrospectively. This even contradicts the UK's own criminal laws on access to a fair trial in a criminal forum.

 

Liability Orders for child maintenance (obtained by the CSA?) expire after six years from the date obtained in the UK's magistrates court.

This is partly why Middle Eastern employers (especially with airlines & engineering) deliberately offer six year contracts to British child-support expats.

Islamic law allows a man the right to rebuild his life free from persecution following a divorce or his home having passed to his ex spouse under UK law

or court ruling (but not by mutual agreement).

This safeguards him from the British authorities using bailiffs to try and take money he probably does not have.

 

It’s considered as double-taxation because on separation a man usually lose his home, loses his child tax credits, become a full-rate taxpayer and becomes liable for CSA - which is classed as a tax on absent-parenthood.

 

Liability Orders are classed as (give or take for the english translation) A Pronouncing of Judgement Without Hearing A Fair Defence, and accordingly they were banned in 1994.

 

I have a feeling a LO generally only lasts 6 years by virtue that Islamic protection from un-defendable demands of money all seem to revolve around this 6 year rule unless revoked.

[kraygerson]

A very interesting post.

 

The entire Liability Order process does appear contradictory to the very foundation of our legal system, insofar as it is possible to obtain one without hearing a defence.

 

Unfortunately, once said Order has been obtained, the (alleged) debtor faces a severe uphill battle.

 

 

"We say you are liable. The Court agrees. Therefore you are liable."

[Renta Mouth]

"We say you are liable. The Court agrees. Therefore you are liable."

 

I see you have read Gulf News as well. In Dubai a few years ago, the British Authorities and the Child Support Agency were parodied by a French journalist with the motto Nos narro vos es opportunus proinde vos es opportunus

 

Its Latin & it means We say you are liable therefore you are liable

[amyhope]

I had been reading some of the posts on this site aswell as looking for more information about council tax

when I came across this and thought it was quite relevant to this disscussion

although I realise it doesn't answer the original question,

but from my view does state that Liability Orders dont expire on death

but are passed on to the persons 'executor or administrator' it may have been updated as this version is 1992 but i have no idea.

 

• Outstanding liabilities on death
   
  58.—(1) This regulation applies where a person dies and at any time before his death—
  
  • (a) he was (or is alleged to have been) liable to pay council tax under section 6, 7 or 8 of the Act, or
    
  • (b) he was (or is alleged to have been) so liable, as spouse, under section 9 of the Act, or
    
  • © a penalty was imposed on him under any of sub-paragraphs (1) to (3) of paragraph 1 of Schedule 3 to the Act.
    

  (2) Where—

  • (a) before the deceased's death a sum has become payable by him under Part V or by way of relevant costs in respect of one of the matters mentioned in paragraph (1) but has not been paid, or
    
  • (b) after the deceased's death a sum would, but for his death (and whether or not on the service of a notice), become payable by him under Part V in respect of one of those matters,
    

  his executor or administrator shall, subject to paragraph (3) and to the extent that it is not in excess of the deceased's liability under the Act (including relevant costs payable by him) in respect of the matter, be liable to pay the sum and may deduct out of the assets and effects of the deceased any payments made (or to be made).

   

  (3) Where paragraph (2)(b) applies, the liability of the executor or administrator does not arise until the service on him of a notice requiring payment of the sum.

   

  (4) Where before the deceased's death a sum in excess of his liability under the Act (including relevant costs payable by him) in respect of one of the matters mentioned in paragraph (1) has been paid (whether the excess arises because of his death or otherwise) and has not been repaid or credited under Part V, his executor or administrator shall be entitled to the sum.

   

   

  (5) Costs are relevant costs for the purposes of paragraphs (2) and (4) if—

  • (a) an order or warrant (as the case may be) was made by the court in respect of them before the deceased's death under regulation 34(7)(b) or (8), 47(4)(b) or 50(3)©(ii), or
    
  • (b) they are charges connected with distress which may be recovered pursuant to regulation 45(2)(b).
    

  (6) A sum payable under paragraph (2) shall be enforceable in the administration of the deceased's estate as a debt of the deceased and accordingly—

  • (a) no liability order need be applied for in respect of it after the deceased's death under regulation 34, and
    
  • (b) the liability of the executor or administrator is a liability in his capacity as such.
    

  (7) Regulation 57(1) applies to proceedings to enforce a liability arising under this regulation as it applies to proceedings under Part VI.

   

  (8) Insofar as is relevant to his liability under this regulation in the administration of the deceased's estate, the executor or administrator may institute, continue or withdaw proceedings (whether by way of appeal under section 16 of the Act or otherwise).

• Copied & Pasted from: The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992