In November an innocuous query was raised on this forum from a debtor whose council tax arrears were being collected under a Council Tax Attachment of Earnings Order and the debtor asked whether bailiff fees could be added to the debt. At the time...the answer provided to the debtor was that fees could be added. Unfortunately, within 24 hours the thread attracted personal abuse from ‘new’ members to the forum complaining that the advice was wrong and that fees cannot be added and that paying the council direct meant that bailiff fees had ‘died’ (which is untrue). The extraordinary level of personal abuse against individuals on here from these ‘internet trolls’ led to posters being banned from this forum and threads closed. In fact the same subject was debated on the LB forum and that too came under dreadful attack from the same ‘internet trolls’ (who proudly boasted of their new found skills on their own forum). To sum up the importance of this subject one of the individuals responsible stated that despite what the regulations may say about bailiff fees he would continue advising debtors to: "Fight it all the way"... "Make it as hard as possible for the bailiffs to get paid" and: "Prolong the money reaching council's bank accounts". Since that time the subject matter of Attachment of Earnings has been debated privately with members of this forum and I stated on the thread that I would not post anything further until I had received responses to my enquiries on this subject....which I am now doing.

Hi im looking for some advice, a few months ago i made 3 payment arrangements with rosendales to pay my 3 outstanding council tax debts off. i was paying £20 a week as currently im self employed but only just started up im not getting money from it im having to use £20 from my £82 working tax credits to pay them, then all of a sudden i was getting letters for more debts, this was after the council confirmed to me i only had 3 outstanding debts. i cancelled the direct debits and wrote rosendales a letter to find out what is happening. its been nearly 2 weeks and i have not heard from them. this past week i have had a bailiff at my door every day but i was out working. i have never seen or spoke to the bailiff until today when i called her back as i got a letter in my post from her stating that she has booked a removal date for the 30th Jan to remove goods from my house. Now from previous experience i know they are not allowed to gain access unless they have been invited in before which she has not been invited in ever. when i called her she was rude and when i told her i was called by rosendales 2 days ago to see what has happened to my arrangement she said "well why the hell are they contacting you when its been passed on to me, they should no longer have any contact with you". i told her ill call them in the morning. ill also add that a month ago i did an expenditure form and offered what i could afford and they declined it and made a new arrangement for me which i told them i couldn't afford but they obviously ignored that and sent a bailiff out instead. im just looking for some advice on what i could possibly say to rossendales when i call them to let them know that threatening wont work as i know they are not allowed to gain entry to my property and tell them that their ignorance is not fair at all and causing more hassle than it needs to

quick question can a bailiff force entry after peaceful entry and control of goods signed are failed to make payments under agreement

The new bailiff enforcement regulations came into effect on 6th April 2014 and a short while later an individual made a Freedom of Information request to the Ministry of Justice seeking clarification on the legal basis for court fines to be covered by the new regulations. On 1st July 2014 I posted a copy of MOJ’s response on the forum and that thread received a lot of views. Unfortunately, there continues to be significant misunderstanding about bailiff fees for Magistrate Court fine and yesterday yet another video was uploaded onto YouTube regarding a debtor who filmed a visit from a Marston Group bailiff regarding two Magistrate Court fines and where the debtor had sought advice from the Beat the Bailiffs and the Banks Facebook page that paying the amount only of the court fine to the court (minus bailiff fees) would clear the warrant (which of course it does not). For public interest sake it may assist if I post the Ministry of Justice’s response once again together with some further useful information.

Hi and thank you for taking the time to read this, I have been receiving letters for my council tax arrears throughout this year from April 2014 and basically putting them in the drawer and not acting upon them. Last week 03 Feb 2015 i came in from work and there was a hand delivered letter from Rossendales requesting £1650 within 24 hours. I managed to get the money together and rang them the next morning as i was not happy with the amount on the FINAL NOTICE letter. They informed me they were coming that day to take my goods, i drive a nice car so i just paid it over the phone by debit card to Rossendales to get them off my back. My question is do i have any claim against the £235 charge they added to the account for turning up at the door and is this charge not disproportionate for the activities carried out in respect of the cost, as in line with bank charges etc, or do i just have to accept being shafted to the sum of £235 and learn from experience and read my letters from now on? Thank you Alfie

hi everyone might sound a bit daft but.. . got a letter earlier in week ( a warrant of control!) to say i had to pay by feb 7th (today) or bailiff would come i have contacted company i owe and am awaiting email response prob be monday now am i right in thinking he will call today or will it be later if later i will hopefully have got agreement in place to pay company direct with installments thanks for any help

A number of frequent posters on the forum have said that they would like to have a thread so that we can discuss the procedures available for debtors if they consider that a bailiff has done something wrong. The thread can be used to discuss a variety of scenarios such as: What is the correct procedure for debtors to take if a bailiff clamps their car which is on finance? What should a debtor do if the bailiff has clamped or removed their car and it is needed for their employment. Can a bailiff charge a fee if the address on the warrant is wrong. PS: We had a similar thread when the new regulations came into effect on 6th April and that was extremely useful and provided a great source of information to frequent posters on the forum. This new thread should be the same.

A subject that we receive a huge number of enquiries about concerns a credit card (or debit card) 'chargeback' and whether bailiff enforcement may recommence. A year ago I started a thread on this subject which has received 6,000 views and given the new legislation (that came into effect on 6th April) it would be wise to update the information with a new thread. Again, from the enquiries that we receive, a lot of people are encouraged to make a 'chargeback' request following information on various websites. The following is taken from one particular FMoTL website: As can be seen the debtor is specifically told that when completing the 'chargeback' form they must NEVER mention the word 'bailiff' on the form and instead, should state the following: "The merchant forced me to make over my card details by placing me under undue pressure exerted upon me to coerce me to perform an act that I ordinarily would not perform and this constitutes a misrepresentation to obtain a money transfer. I asked the merchant to refund the money who refused to do so and is in breach of contract and remains indebted to me". Debtors are also informed that: "It strengthens your application considerably if you support it with a sworn statement proving the card transaction was made under duress. This increases the chances of getting a rapid charge back to a near certainty" It would seem that debtors are being informed that if the credit card company reverse the payment that bailiffs cannot enforce the debt given that 'apparently' the 'enforcement power has ceased' and that there is "nothing in the regulations that provides for bailiffs to revive it". The supposed case law being paragraph 58 of Schedule of the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act 2007 and paragraph 31 of the Guidance in the Taking Control of Goods, National Standards 2014. So....is the above advice correct? NO...it is not.

In September last year I started a new thread regarding a very serious case concerning a debtor who had been arrested for assaulting a bailiff. The reason for the debtor's arrest can be seen in the following links from that time: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?433030-Debtor-charged-under-section-68(1)-of-TCEA-2007-with-quot-intentionally-obstructing-a-bailiff-quot-.(20-Viewing)-nbsp

Since when was Obstructing a Bailiff a criminal offence? Or is it a different matter because its dealing with eviction? http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/aug/23/dale-farm-prosecutions-abandoned-council After the Dale Farm evictions, 2 protesters were successfully prosecuted by Basildon Council for "obstructing a bailliff"

Hello CAG posters, Any advice on my current predicament would be MUCH appreciated: Last July I was caught on the TFL network for using a friend's Freedom Pass. I provided my parents' address (genuine, and it was checked via a phone call to Inland Revenue). I admitted that I was trying to save money and when asked why I did this, I replied that I would be leaving the country to volunteer abroad for a year and needed to save some money. My parents received a bailiff letter last week to collect a sum of over 800 pounds. I imagine this is because I received a court summons and did not attend the hearing. However, I left the country mid-August last year (I have evidence to prove this: contract with NGO; entry stamp at airport). I am due to return to the UK in a couple of months but am really worried about: a) getting arrested at the airport b) having to pay the new sum of over 800 pounds What are my options and how I can limit these hefty costs? Please, I know I have been very stupid in this regard, but don't need any more guilt trips. I have registered on this forum for professional advice and would be very grateful for any such posts. Many thanks

hi all i need your help i moved into my new property in November last year and been getting letters from excel civil enforcement for the old owner, i have been sending them back return to sender. I came home from work yesterday at 9 last night and my car was not on my drive, i went inside and see a letter from excel saying that they removed the car to cover the debt. when i called to number on the letter explained that i was not the person on the court order and that he removed my car illegally and wanted it back if not i would call the police and have him arrested for theft. he then told me that because the car was at the drive and the address was on his order so he can remove the car. i offered to email proof of who i was to his office he refused and said if i did not pay him the money of £1500 plus holding cost the car would be sent to auction. which then he hung up This morning i called the court and explained to them what happened who where no help all they would say is that the debt was out of their hands and i would have to deal with the bailiff company. i dont know what to do can anyone please help me

I am writing this thread as a warning to others because the enquiry below is identical to two others that I have received in the past 2 weeks!!! This morning I have spoken at length with a debtor who received a visit from a bailiff early this morning regarding a PCN issued by a London borough. Police had to be called and her car has since been *removed to the vehicle pound. She is utterly distraught. This visit came as a surprise because the debtor (wrongly) believed 'internet advice' that *the debt cannot now be enforced by a bailiff following her 'credit card chargeback' that she applied for in September last year. The brief background is that the debtor had received a PCN and had appealed to the local authority. She is adamant that she had not received a response to the appeal (unfortunately, she failed to keep a copy of the appeal which was sent by letter instead of by email). The local authority registered the debt at TEC and a warrant was issued. She did receive an initial letter from the bailiff but did not address the letter and neither did she call the council. The bailiff visited her property in August and clamped her vehicle and charged a fee of just under £500 which included one "attending to remove" fee. She visited a website which she thought *at the time was run by solicitors and believing their "advice" that she had been "defrauded" she used the "template" to apply for a 'chargeback' against her credit card provider.* She did not find the process of the 'chargeback' simple and only eventually received a refund from her credit card *shortly before Christmas. She received a letter from the bailiff company a few weeks ago to request payment. She admits that she ignored the letter because of the 'advice' from the website in question which included their claims that" "There is no warrant, you paid it" and that: " The bailiff cannot sue you for the PCN element of the transaction because he has been caught cheating with his fees" At the time of the visit in August the debt had been £497. Today the debt is £722 to include a removal fee of £225. Given her history of a 'chargeback' against her credit card, the bailiffs gave her 2 hours to pay by cash. She could not raise the money and her car was therefore removed. Storage fees of £40 per day are now being applied and she has been told *that her car will be sold after a period of 5 working days. I will be posting more after reviewing the documents.

quick question. bailiffs clamp my friends car over unpaid council ticket. he sat in the car and bailiff called the police. informed him he was committing the offence of obstructing an enforcement officer and will be arrested. officers radioed control who said to go ahead and arrest them can they do this

The new bailiff regulations came into effect on 6th April and bailiff fees are strictly controlled and comprise of a Compliance Fee of £75 which is charged when the debt is passed by the creditor. If payment is not made or a payment agreement entered into during the ‘compliance stage’ a bailiff may attend the debtors premises and an Enforcement Fee of £235 is chargeable. Significantly, the new regulations provide that from any payment made (whether to the bailiff, the magistrate court or the local authority) the Compliance Fee of £75 is deducted first with the balance being split on a ‘pro rata’ basis between the debt to the creditor and bailiff fees. This novel approach means that unless the amount due (including bailiff fees) is paid in full, bailiff enforcement may continue and it is this point alone that has caused extreme difficulty to some ‘debt avoidance’ websites with associations to the Freeman on the Land (FmoTL) movement and 9 months after the regulations came into effect it is astonishing that debtors are continuing to be advised by such websites to avoid paying bailiff fees by paying the amount of the Liability Order or court fine only (minus bailiff fees). Despite the regulations clearly outlining how payments are to be calculated, in May/June an individual made numerous Freedom of Information requests to Local Authorities seeking clarification as to how they deal with direct payments made to them after accounts have been passed to bailiffs. Since that time many more FOI requests have been made on the same subject and the up to date position is that approx a quarter of all local authorities have received requests on the same subject. What has been the outcome of these Freedom of Information request? Typically, in the very early stages (May and June) most responses made clear that the local authorities had very little idea as to how the new regulations would work in practice but since August/September the vast majority of responses confirm that they apportion the payment as outlined in the legislation and that they advise the bailiff company accordingly (or credit the bailiff company) with the payment. PS: It is likely that there are far more FOI requests than outlined here. I have only referred to those that are available to view publicly on the FOI website: What do They Know.

Hi, Posting on a behalf of a friend, thought this might be the best place to ask. My friend owes £1000 tax arrears, it was £3000 a few years ago, but she has managed to pay back £2000.... They agreed for her to pay £100 per month. Anyways, this month she was 10 days late making this £100 payment. After the late payment was made, a few days later a bailiff turned up and demanded the full payment (£1000) and said he would seize goods to clear the debt. My friend rang these people, I don't know if they are the council bailiffs or a 3rd party bailiff and they said, because she broke the re-payment agreement there is nothing they can do to stop the bailiffs. This to me sounds a bit unreasonable. Are they trying to scare her into the repaying the full amount towards their xmas party or Do they have really have the power the sieze goods over 10 days late payment? Thank you for any help, any advice on what to do next would be most appreciated

Hi i had Marstons banging on the door this morning at 8.30am saying they were removing my car. They put a clamp on it and said a removal van would be there in half an hour. They then left and came back 30 minutes later. Its for an old council tax bill of £217 for which they want to remove my vehicle which is worth around £2,500 retail or £1500 trade, is this not classed as excess!? He's been sat outside for two hours now and has told me he will charge me £60 per hour to wait for the tow truck. I haven't signed anything so from what i can gather, he cant charge me anything other than the legal bailiff fees? I cant afford to pay now, i have no money coming in unfortunately and am in receipt of housing and council tax benefit. My only other income right now is working tax and child credits. I have of course offered to make a payment arrangement which he of course rejected! I have phoned the council but they have refused to do anything and said i have to deal with the bailiff. On the removal letter it says they'll also charge me £15 per day for storage. This is insane for a £217 bill! Any help appreciated?

A MAN who hit a bailiff with a cricket bat, then challenged his sentence for it, has been given a suspended jail term. Richard Burton, 35, attacked the bailiff David Knight when he went to his house in Phipps Road, Oxford, on March 5 last year. He was convicted of assault by beating at Oxford Magistrates’ Court on October 14 and was given a 12-month conditional discharge. He was also told to pay £100 compensation, a £15 victim surcharge and £200 costs. But Burton appealed against his sentence at Oxford Crown Court on Tuesday. The court heard Mr Knight told Burton he was a bailiff as he went into the house. Judge Zoe Smith said Burton went into the kitchen and first picked up a knife, then put it down and picked up a cricket bat instead. He raised it above his head and brought it down, hitting Mr Knight’s left hand, causing bruising and swelling. Dismissing the appeal, Judge Smith warned Burton that bailiffs played an essential role in the criminal justice system. She said: “People employed to carry out the duties of bailiff must have the protection of the courts and it is only right people who harm them should expect imprisonment. “The job this gentleman was undertaking was essential.” She gave Burton a three-month prison sentence but suspended it for 12 months saying: “We were impressed by the character witness you put before us.” Burton was also ordered to carry out 120 hours of unpaid work and pay Mr Knight £150 compensation and the Crown Prosecution Service’s full costs of £526. Judge Smith warned him: “If you do not undertake this unpaid work to the best of your abilities, you will have to serve the prison sentence.” http://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/news/11657762.Man_hit_bailiff_with_cricket_bat/

Hi, I wonder if someone can give me some advice please. This morning I went out to my car and it had been clamped. I called the bailiff on the notice and asked why and they said for unpaid congestion charge. I said to them that I hadn't received any notice giving me 7 days min from them but I had previously and paid. They said this was for two new ones. I was complete unaware of them. I then told them that the car belonged to my ltd so they better come round and remove the clamp or it will be cut off. They then threatened that I would be arrested to which I said I doubt that being that they clamped a car not belonging to me. they came round and I showed them proof that although the car is registered in my name that in fact the ltd company owned it. They still refused to remove it. I then said I was happy to pay but couldn't today and I would like them to send their notice out to me. They refused and said they will now start stage two. One of the bailiffs then started to walk into my porch which I was blocking so I pushed him out and said he's not coming in and won't gain peaceful entry. They then said that was assault and that because the door was open they can just come in. He then again walked in pushing past and I ended up outside the property. I then said that because the main inner door was locked that they cant break it down as I think I have seen someone that entry to a porch is not entry to the entire house if met with another locked door. They simply said they could and will. I then called the police who didn't want to come out as it was a civil matter but I insisted. When they arrived I explained the situation and they agreed that if I obstruct the bailiff now then I will be arrested. As a result and purely because I didn't want the hassle of being arrested I had to call my parents for them to drive 10 miles to pay it for me. They claim they had also called for a van and if it arrived they would charge even more money. I don't believe that they even called one and don't believe they would have broke in but I was in a situation of not wanting to chance anything. Don't get me wrong I did owe the money but I wasn't aware of any bailif visit and if I was I would have paid it prior to a visit to avoid the £235 extra. The bailiffs said that everything was recorded too and after I agreed to pay they still refused to get out of the porch leaving me in the street and everything seemed to be all nice and had a chat. They wouldn't budge and allow me a few days to pay and the police agreed that they had sent the letters as it was printed on there historical sheet. Afterwards though one of the bailiffs did admit that they send out loads and it is quite common for them to not arrive. Is there anything I can do now about this and certainly try and get the extra £235 back for a visit that wouldnt have happened if I got there letter. Sorry for the rant. Thanks

For the past few months rumors have been circulating that a new 'bailiffs association' was being set up. Rumors were true and the new association was formally launched on 8th December. It is called the Certificated Enforcement Agents Association (CEAA). The Vice President is Andy Coates who has been in the enforcement industry for over 20 years. He has worked for some of the largest enforcement companies and is well known within the enforcement industry given that he owns a large training company and runs training courses for new entrants to the enforcement industry. The President is Dave Rayner from Collect Services. The Press release states that the new group was formed as there was a need for the individual Enforcement Agent to have a 'voice within the industry' at present the only 'association' is CIVEA (The Certificated Enforcement Agents Association) and in the main they represent the enforcement companies (although a small number of individual bailiffs are members). The joining fee is low...just £25....and naturally a lot of bailiffs...including those working in house for local authorities have already signed up. CEAA will continue to provide training course including the Level 2 and 3 in the Taking Control of Goods and Vulnerability Training with the Enforcement Process.

We have a shop which is rented to us on a 15yr lease. We've now been trading for more than 2yrs, having had the keys for around 30 months. Upon first moving in, we noticed problems with the roof, as in water leaks in several places when it rains heavily. This was reported to the Landlord several times, and so called repairs have been carried out, several times too. However, over 2yrs later, the roof still leaks, and quite frankly, it's dangerous, as it leaks into the stockroom area, causing a slippery floor, and more importantly, leaks down onto the electricity meter and fuse box, then onto the floor and causing a pool around the toilet... Not nice when you need a pee! So as the rent is paid quarterly in advance, and was due on 29th Oct - I decided, to write to the Landlord 14 days before the rent was due, and tell him that I considered his failure to repair the roof to be a breach of our contract/lease, and as such I would be withholding payment of the rent until such date as repairs were effected. I also said that I was taking this action reluctantly, but as the matter had remained unresolved for over 2 yrs, I felt that this was my only method of getting repairs carried out satisfactorily. I sent this letter by recorded delivery, and have confirmation of same. I heard nothing back from him whatsoever, and the due date for the rent came and went.. Yesterday however, I got a call from the girl in the shop, that bailiffs were in attendence, and wanted to be allowed in to seize goods (Our shop is a fully "bandit screened" off licence) She had told them that she didn't care who they were, they were not coming past the door. She passed the phone to one of them and he came outside to talk to me - He told me he was a HCEO and was here to collect the outstanding rent, plus their "charges of £486.00" I asked him if he had a Court Order, to which he answered no, so I asked if he had a High Court Writ, again, the answer was no. So I told him he wouldn't be getting anything, and I would be there shortly. I left, and telephoned the Landlord on the way, I was straight to the point with him, and asked what he was playing at, he told me that they (DCBLtd) had sent me a letter a week before at his instruction advising that if the rent remains unpaid, they would be attending. I told him (honestly) that no letter had been received. We had a discussion, and it was agreed that if I paid him the rent the following day, into his bank as per the normal method, he would commence repairs... So, when I arrived at the shop, I told the Bailiff that he needed to speak to the client who had instructed him, as it had been sorted. He went outside and did this. A few mins later he came back in and said he had advised the Landlord to phone his office, as he could only be told to discontinue by them. So we waited a further 10 mins, at this time, I was still "outside" the screens. His office then rang, and he told me "That's fine for the rent, however I need to collect our fees" Obviously, know that they were his "wages" I told him I'd not be paying anything, as he no longer had a debt to collect, and I'd not received the initial letter in any case. I then asked in what role he was attending today, and his reply? "I'm here today as a private bailiff o collect rent arrears" That to me, told me all I needed to know, he had no court order, no writ, and wasn't even acting as a HCEO on this visit. I turned around and unlocked the door to let myself into the shop, and the cheeky bugger wedged his foot firmly into it.. I phoned my Solicitor whilst I was leaning against the door, and he advised me to call the Police, which I did.. Anyway, we both stayed there for 15 mins, him on one side with his size 10 wedged in the gap, me on the other... His colleague then suggested they "give up" and he removed his foot, just as the Police arrived... I spoke to them and said I wanted them off the premises and the Police advised them of the same. He did however say, "you are still liable for our charges, so we will be back" and passed me the attached letter/form. So this morning, the rent has been paid to Landlord directly, therefore there is no longer any "debt" so, can they just chase their "charges" even though they've done nothing for them, and the compliance letter was never received? Interestingly, they have also included £114 for the "sale stage fee" Erm, for selling what exactly?? Comments anyone? Mike

Hi all. Didn't know what else to call the thread!! LOL. I had a bailiff at my door yestrday afternoon for council tax, i owe 410 quid, the bailiff has now said i owe 720 quid, wtf. I had been trying to offer the council some payments but they wanted more, offered 40 pound a month they wanted 120. I cant afford that. The bailiff wants the whole lot. Phoned the council they said its too late Ive got to pay the bailiff. Well seeing as the bailiff was a loud rude bully I have no intention to pay him. Told me he will come back with a locksmith and take everything i own. Then said it probably wont be much anyway said I was probably on benfits and all my was stuff was his anyway as his taxes paid for it!! Cheeky sod. I work part time, not great pay so money is tight. Any suggestions? I accept i owe the council tax but the bailiff wants just as much for himself on top!

Had 285.89 outstanding on this year's council tax which I paid online to council this morning. Got home to find hand posted bailiff letter demanding 661 + 75 + 235 stating they will call again at 6am Saturday I have emailed council requesting they call off bailiff ASAP as paid. But considering bailiffs figures are out of date guessing communications are poor and they may call back What can I do? Do I owe bailiff 310....which is greater than what I owed the council!? Help much appreciated as very concerned

hi hope someone can help asap I have been visited by Equita baiiff today for unpaid council tax. I have told him that in two weeks I will try and a make a payment but cant promise the figure we agreed due to low income. I have to give him his due he was very nice about the situation. the problem has arisen that he has told me that they can take the car parked out front. this is where the situation gets tricky so bear with me... the car is registered with dvla in my name, but that is for tax and insurance purposes only. it is in fact my 17 year old high functioning autistic sons car that we bought for him to enable us to transport him around, as he finds crowded public transport stressful. it is his car always has been always will be. it was bought privately and he has no receipt. we paid for the car out of my bank account after my husbands aunt died and left us some money. I have been told by various sources that we can get a statutory declaration stating that it is my sons car and therefore the bailiffs cannot take it. is this correct and how do I go about getting one?? many thanks

Assuming they can't collect what happens to the Bailiff fees? I'm talking about the new regulations.