Have a look at this thread by GaryH angelcat. Hopefully it'll put your mind at rest http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/78216-aqs-stays-strike-out.html

The same rules apply equally, regardless whether your account is open or closed. The bank will certainly have kept the records, so just go down the SAR/LBA route in the usual way - good luck!

So does anyone know why some London cases are being referred to the Mercantile court and others (like the bassister Tom Brennan) are not? Mine (like Tom's) is in the Central London County Court. I've sent in my AQ but the judge hasn't issued directions yet, I'm just wondering whether my case is likely to be transferred. Could be good because I know (from a totally different case) that one judge at the Central London CC does not like me at all

This is the second success I've heard about today, one in court, one settled. Looking like it might be business as usual after all ..... Has anyone heard whether Kev is definitely going to appeal? Poor bugger must be utterly, utterly overwhelmed going from "one of us" to being the best known bank charges litigant in the country! I do hope the pressure isn't too much and that he fights for what's his ...

Excellent news toddle, fantastic. We can all start to breathe again

Very encouraging news PinkPaula - well done and thanks for letting us know. Do wqe know if Lloyds have settled and more cases since Kev's?

Thanks c allen, will do

A persuasive and hugely reassuring post at a worrying time rbrears; thank you

Could anyone respond to the above? My account has been open for 15 years or more; I have no chance of finding a copy of the T&Cs from back then!! Yes, Particulars can be amended, but there’s a non-refundable fee of £35. It’s important you do that if necessary as no, you can’t issue proceedings again for the same claim. If you want meaningful advice on which you most need to go for, you’ll need to let us see what you’ve got to start with.

This really is alarming; I’m afraid I don’t take much comfort from the fact that Lloyds won this case without even trying! Does anyone know whether the claimant intends to appeal this decision? It is of course only then a case gets to the higher courts that it sets a precedent but I think there is little doubt that Lloyds will take great encouragement from it and may perhaps be motivated to start defending. It will be interesting to see what happens over the coming weeks to see what Lloyds do with cases that have already been allocated trial dates. This leaves me feeling very nervous.

Now there's a thought Bolton1 - many a true word spoken in jest .....

Thanks to you both; I'll give them one more chance and if they don't get it sorted, will move elsewhere. Just hoped the Ombudsman might give them a speedy kick up the backside, but maybe not. If one - just one - bank acted with competence and integrity, and treated its customers with respect, it would make a bloody fortune!

PS - also most alarmed that in point 10, the cheeky buggers have given me a sex-change :o :o :o

Having read yet more, this does seem to be pretty much the standard defence - see below. I thought I had read that their standard defence claimed the Particulars were "embarassing", which is why I thought mine was different. I'm a little concerned about points 8 and 10. The sums claimed re point 8 are tiny - a few pounds - and I don't want to increase the risk of it going to trial for the sake of such a sum; should I go to the trouble of amending my Particulars? Re point 10, this occurred because I worked out my charges some months ago - they were all within 6 years when I worked them out! Again, maybe I should amend? I know there is an argument for going back more than 6 years, and I intend to bring a second claim later for older charges, but for now I don't want to do anything that increases the risk of a trial on this current claim. So, unless I amend, I guess it's just a question of sending the AQ with attached draft order and the paragraph pre-empting their application for a 1-month stay, plus a note explaining that the AQ is a day or two late because the court only gave me 2 days notice to get the damed thing back...? Sorry if I sound as though I am starting to panic; £3k isn't a life-changing sum for most people but at the moment it would be for me and I don't want to screw up :o DEFENCE 1. The Defendant Lloyds TSB Bank pic (the Bank) is a Bank whose registered office is 25 Gresham Street, London, EC2V 7HN. It is admitted that the Claimant has been a customer of the Bank at all material times. 2. By opening an account with the Bank, the customer enters into a commercial arrangement with the Bank for the provision of banking services. The Bank is entitled, as part of that arrangement, to charge for those services. At account opening a customer is provided with details of the Bank's charges, currently in a leaflet a guide to our banking charges. By using the account, the customer acknowledges that the charges are incorporated into the contract. For personal customers, a number of services are provided for free, notwithstanding that they are an expense to the Bank. Such services presently include, but are not limited to, providing; cheques bank statements the facility to make payments by direct debit and standing order debit cards ATMs (cash machines). 3. By maintaining the account in credit, or within any limit agreed with the Bank, the customer may avoid most if not all charges. If the customer fails to ensure that there are sufficient cleared funds in the account to cover payments, whether by cheque, debit card, standing order or direct debit, the customer makes a request for a payment to be made from the Bank's own funds. If the Bank makes payment, or returns the payment, it provides a service as specified in the leaflet and makes a charge in accordance with the terms of the contract. On page 1 of the leaflet, the Bank explains that "there are normally no charges for everyday banking at Lloyds TSB when your account is in credit. When you use an agreed overdraft, there is no monthly fee and we only charge interest on the amount you are overdrawn each day. Where you go overdrawn without an agreement or where you use special services, such as copy statements, we we’ll make a charge. This guide explains how these charges work, and when they will apply. If you want to use a service that we haven't listed, we'll tell you the cost of that service before you give us the go-ahead". 4. There is no breach of contract; the charge cannot therefore be a penalty, consequently there is no requirement that the charge be a pre-estimate of the Bank's loss. 5. The customer is given advance warning of charges being imposed; statements show the charges, if any, the customer has incurred during the course of a month, and which will appear as debits on the following month's statement. Customers are warned by letter when they go overdrawn or over their agreed limit without arrangement with the Bank. If the customer fails to remedy the position, and payments such as standing orders and direct debits are refused then again the customer is warned by letter. 6. The charges are fair and reasonable, and it is denied that they are unlawful. 7. The customer is notified of the charges in plain intelligible language at the conclusion of the contract, and on each monthly statement. The charge are terms which relate to the price payable by the customer for a service provided by the Bank, and pursuant to Regulation 6 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, are not subject to the assessment of fairness. 8. Furthermore, the Claimant's claim appears to be misconceived in that the Claimant is seeking a refund of overdraft interest. There is no claim for refund of the authorised rate interest as it is contractually due and is a core term of the agreement between the Bank and the Claimant. As such, the Defendant denies that they are indebted to the Claimant for the sums claimed under this heading. The Defendant will rely on the case of Emerald Meats (London) Ltd. -v- AlB Group (UK) Pic [2002] EWCA Civ 460, which is authority for the proposition that a customer entering into overdraft arrangement could expect to pay interest on the basis of the standard practice adopted by the bank. 9. In the premises: 9.1 the charges are for banking services, and are not damages nor a penalty; 9.2 the Bank is entitled by contract to impose the charges, which are fair and reasonable; 9.3 it is denied that the charges are unlawful or contravene any statute or regulation. 10. Further, insofar as part of the Claimant’s claim is based on charges levied on her account prior to six years from the date of issue of her claim, that is 2nd March 2001, that part of the claim is statute barred by operation of the Limitation Act 1980. 11. The Claimant's claim is denied in its entirety. It is further denied that the Claimant is entitled to the sum claimed or to any sum from the Bank.

Anyone?

Um, with the technical assistance of the bloke in the internet cafe I should ... hopefully ... be able to master their terrifying looking scanner machine in the morning (I'm the ultimate technophobe!) and if so will post it then! If not, I'll type it out; it's only a couple of pages. Cheers!

Well my letter seemed to do the trick. Sort of. Received the defence and AQ yesterday - the AQ being dated 17 April (!!!) with a deadline for its return of 1st May - tomorrow!!! Given the wealth of advice here about different strategies for responding to AQs, including draft orders, requests to reject stay applications and God knows what else, I was planning to take a couple of days of the fourteen days I expected to have before the return date, to consider my response in the light of whatever the defence said. Now I am beginning to panic, particularly as the defence doesn't seem to be altogether the "standard" one! Why the Hell is my case the one that suffers problems and setbacks different to anyone else's (rehetorical question!). I'm sure mine will be the one they take to trial....

An unusual one.... I and some friends are setting up a charity. We opened a co-op account because of its allegedly “ethical” policy. We received a paying in book and card, but no chequebook; we assumed it was on its way. Instead, we received a letter saying we had bounced a cheque and would be charged. We wrote immediately saying we’ve not even had a chequebook and had not used the account in any way shape or form, so either the bank was in error or the chequebook we were waiting for had gone astray and had landed in the hands of fraudsters, in which case we demanded the police be called or their fraud department should launch an investigation. Our letter was ignored and a while later we received a statement; we had been charged a daily fee and the account was about £300 in the red. We sent a further letter, saying we would look at referring the matter to the Ombudsman if they did not reply and refund all the charges. This letter, too, was ignored. Eventually, after several unsuccessful attempts, I got through to them on the phone, got an apology and a verbal assurance that the charges were refunded and the balance was zero. We received a chequebook and assumed all was well. We were about to make our first deposit when we received a letter saying the account was inexplicably £2 in the red (remember this account has never been used!!) and we have now received a letter telling us we are incurring daily charges again! We have had to delay the launch of the charity because we don’t feel we can use the account until this is sorted. Is the Ombudsman now the way to go, and can anyone give an indication as to how long they take to investigate?

exemplary damages are not designed to compensate for loss; they are punative and designed to "punish" the wrongdoer.

ARGHHH! I called the Court the day before the last point at which LLoyds could submit a defence, and I was told they had. They would send me the defence and Allocation Questionnaire in a few days. Two weeks later, no sign of them so I call again. "Sorry, I'll put them in the post personally today." I was told. That was over a week ago. Called this morning. "Oh, we're a bit behind, we'll probably get them out this week." Has anyone else had this problem? I've now written a letter of complaint to the Court Manager and have also sent in an appication for a default judgment. As I explained in my letter of complaint, I have no evidence a defence has been filed so if there has been one filed, he can explain to the judge why I've been denied sight of it! Hopefully it'll give them a kick up the backside and move things along...

Interesting, will watch this one. I have already started a 6-year claim with Lloyds. Assuming they settle for the sum I have asked, in "full and final settlement" of my claim, is there anything to prevent me taking a second claim out for the pre-6-year charges? Presumably these would be two separate claims and so there is nothing in the phrase "full and final settlement" of the current claim that prevents me from subsequently starting another claim in reespect of the earlier charges?

What a nail-biter!! I'd read LTSB seemed to be settling at around the time the AQs were due back but they really kept you waiting! Well done!! It was good to read your thread actually, as if I hadn't got a settlement of my claim by the time the AQ was due back I'd have started to worry; it's easy to assume yours is the one case they are going to take all the way! Well done again ....

I've just stumbled on this thread and read it with disbelief. It's just a thought, but the Independent newspaper has been running heavily with the whole bank charges issue and periodically mentions examples of "new lows" to which the banks have resorted. Might it be worth contacting someone at the newsdesk and telling them about it? It'll probably help you get the money back quickly if they take it on and if you can expose this in a national newspaper then so much the better. Just a thought - do keep us posted, whatever happens.

Hi Bex, Have a look at this thread, should help!! http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/3598-do-you-have-charges.html?highlight=years

Hi all, Given the pedantic nature of Lloyds TSB's lawyers and their attempts to get cases struck out because the Pariculars are not up to scratch, and given that I've had to change the template in several respects, I wondered if I could ask those with more experience to cast a quick eye over my proposed Particulars and comment on them...? Many thanks!!! IN THE LAMBETH COUNTY COURT BETWEEN ME CLAIMANT and LLOYDS TSB DEFENDANT PARTICULARS OF CLAIM 1. The Claimant has an account("the Account") with the Defendant. (I don't have the foggiest when it was opened - 15-20 years ago I'd guess - but not important, right?) 2. During the period in which the Account has been operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant. 3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim. 4. The Claimant contends that: a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit. b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law. c) The Defendant owed him a duty of care in the form of a fiduciary duty not to gain extra profit and by way of ‘fiduciary impropriety’ and that by adding interest to the unlawfully levied charges, the Defendant breached that duty of care and made ‘profit by wrongdoing’ from that breach at the Claimant’s expense forming an ‘unjust enrichment’. (not on the template, but suggested on another thread - is the wording OK?) 5. Accordingly the Claimant claims: a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £XXXXX and any interest charged thereon; b) Court costs; c) Interest at the defendant’s contractual rate of 18.4% as set out on the attached list of charges up to the date of judgment or earlier payment or, in the alternative, interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act or at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just. (differs from the template - is this OK?) d) Restitutionary damages, in the nominal sum of £100.00, for ‘unjust enrichment’. 6. Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act (1982). I believe that the contents of these particulars of claim are true