Unprofessional, threats of violence and incompetent and fraudulent behaviour, including your payments to them "disapearing" And thats when there having a good day!!

Ahh back at last after no internet since end of october!! "Zed" from Welcome Finance contacted the HR director of my former employer on several occasions attempting to get her to disclose various bits of information about me, luckilly the HR Director A: knows her job, and the companys legal responsibilities and B: smelled something fishy straight away, and refused to give him anything, but he still persisted for a couple of more calls....

Ok, they have now told me that they are going to contact my Employer and discuss the situation with them! do they have this right? He claims by signing the data protection act with them they can contact anyone, including my employer to discuss my private finances.

Thanks. It of course doesnt stop them actually coming round the house, which he threatened to do today and charge £25 for the honour despite not making appointments. I hope I keep calm if he does though maybe "he came right at me" would work as an excuse!

Does anyone have any advice on who exactly to complain to? Im prepared to take this to the highest levels. They also started disclosing personal details to someone who was not me again this morning.

does anyone know what my next steps should be? I have a log of 11 aggressive, threatening and fraudulent phone calls. One person making the calls then claimed not to work for Welcome Finance when pushed (so data protection, if its his mate and not a WFS employee?) I have a statement from my mother - he repeatedly called her, getting more aggressive throughout the day. He informed me he had the right to send bailiff's around to remove property at any time (even after i showed some knowledge here and asked if he could really do that without a CCJ, he "assured me" he could. His mate at one point claimed to be from the fraud squad, and told who to them was an unidentified stranger that Myself and my partner (who isnt involved in this) were being investigated for Fraud. He turned up at the door and very loudly and aggressively demmanded that our lodger get me, and was again extremely aggressive, and threatening - terrifying the poor girl. I literally had to force myself not to go to the door, as I WOULD have ended up doing something silly, like dropkicking the worthless creature. As the AoJ1970 is "criminal" I will go to the police station and make a statement if they will let me to get that on record. I will complain to the OFT, and send an extremely nasty letter to WFS head office. Anything else I should do? Who would I contact to question the companys ability to hold a credit licence? I am sorely tempted to contact their head office on Monday and demand his full name so I can begin criminal proceedings. What I tried explaining to his deaf ears, is its in my INTEREST to sort out the missed payment - I have just been made redundant and will need to claim the insurance (though I hear thats near impossible in itself) At the moment I think this company is impossible to deal with if this is the level of their staff. I am seriously considering telling them to feck off, take me to court for a CCJ, and I will turn up with all my logs, and see if I can get a decent repayment deal. Can you call witnesses for a CCJ defence? Id love to call Zed and cross examine him on his behaviour and knowledge of the law hehe

He just came around knocking on the door without a prior appointment, is he able to charge for this? He also threatened to spend all day parked outside the house, and did wait for about 10 mins. He also demanded our lodger tell him where I work so he can go around. When I spoke to him a few days before, he also told me that unless I gave him my debit card details (and therefore a blank cheque to take whatever payment he felt like) He would trace my employer through my National Insurance number and speak to them. Hence this morning I didnt answer the phone as Im not in the best mood to speak to people like that. He made 10 phonecalls speaking to my partner within the space of 40 minutes this morning and 2 further calls since. 3 if you count the fraudulent call to my mother.

While out this morning they rang repeatedly from several different phones, were told by partner I wasnt in. It was a different person and mobile number everytime. They refused to give any details of who they were and got extremely aggressive when told I wasnt in. their responses ranged from we know your lying we are at your front door (they apparrently werent) to telling her that I was being investigated for fraud. They then after getting the details somehow phoned my mother back in Wales telling her they were from the bank, regarding a banking problem, they need me urgently. Are these violations of the Admin of Justice Act? My mother is typing out a statement of what they told her, it was witnessed by her husband to.

What happens if you refuse to swear the "Oath" that any info you give is accurate and the truth?

But after paying the extra 4 or 5 quid you COULD download stuff, without fear of prosecution.

What baffles me is, if they are happy to sell to a debtor for 15% of the debt or whatever the figure is why not just offer it to the CUSTOMER first at that price? Banks are just mad. It would be a better system for them when things get to the stage that they consider selling, as the original creditors I believe they also hold a responsibility for the actions of the institutionally corrupt DCA'?

me again! Piracy seems a very disingenious term to use, apart from the lack of men in frilly costumes with swords and muskets, it firstly is unfair to many people in the world who have suffered dreadfully at the hands of real modern day Pirates, a common problem in Asia, with ships including cruise ships regularly being attacked. But also, is a 16 year old geek sitting at home downloading ancient horror movies for free, which may not even be on DVD yet as much of a criminal as the organised crime gangs who manufacture pirated DVD's in bulk and sell them in the UK's markets feeding the massive profits back into their other illicit trades, people smuggling and so on? Apparantly genuine DVD piracy for profit is actually more of a money making machine that Drugs at the moment! and with lesser sentances if caught. Downloading for Free is here to stay, as DRM evolves so do the ways of getting round it. Look at the Mighty Microsoft when they brought in their spanking new Windows Validation Tool for downloading updates to XP - it was broken within about 2 hours, and all it took was pasting a bit of text into your browser The most sensible way of tackling it actualy came from France, the government suggested creating an "internet tax" about 4 or 5 pounds on top of your monthly bill to your internet service provider, this money would all be ploughed back into the media industry, and people would basically be able to download at will, so the government could concentrate its law making on the real for profit pirates. Of course it was wrecked by lobbying from incensed companys....

I think in the UK we have the right to make a backup of Software we own. I buy PC Games and often I download a "No CD/DVD Patch" im not sure where UK law stands on such things, but certainly software companies don't like them. But from my point of view, I have bought a game, probably paid £30-£40 for it, so it makes far more sense to install a No CD patch and keep my game disc safe in its box, without risking scratching it everytime I want to play. Independant experts have pointed out that organisations such as the RIAA in the US are actually inflating their alledged "damages" from "piracy" by millions. The problem is, from a moral point of view, the RIAA etc all scream "think of the poor artist how will he eat" except its a slightly different story when you consider that out of an Album that costs what £12.99 the artist gets a few pence. Were artists to use things such as Itunes, once the cost of recording their tracks was covered they would make a far far larger amount of money for their artistic genius, AND people would pay for it. One of the bugbears is the price of CD's, especially as a lot of people are vaguely aware that in fact production/transport costs are minimal, but the artist gets a pittance. This is the real reason I believe for the incredibly heavy handed actions being undertaken by companys at the moment. They have seen their own "deaths" Broadband, the Internet, mp3 players, Itunes and its like, even recording stuff at home at high quality with equipment costing far far less, these are all signalling the end of large international record corporations unless they get their act together, treat the artists more fairly AND the consumer. When you hear whats going on in the US its difficult to have pity for the RIAA's interests. At random they will use new laws available in the US to force ISP's to release the details of people the RIAA "suspect" of illegal downloading - note - not the "pirates" who are copying/sharing things in bulk but you and me. Once they have these addresses and names of people the RIAA Contact Centre sends a letter telling them they have been caught, but if they pay up $5000 say, then they will not proceed to court, and court would end badly for you, since we have the evidence. a poor single mother received one of these letters alledging her 10 year old daughter had been downloading, and she is taking a stand, especially after the RIAA's lawyers told her that unless she pays up, they will take her (TEN YEAR OLD DAUGHTER) to the court, and have her convicted of various criminal charges, and hit her with such large fines and damages that she will be credit blacklisted for life. The Mother took exception and with a civil rights lawyer is currently (i think its ongoing) prosecuting the RIAA under the Organised Crime and Racketeering Acts used to destroy the Mafia! And she seems to have a very good case, especially since on the first day in court challenging the RIAA's demands (this is before they decided to go for the organised crime angle) They asked for copies of the RIAA evidence of illegal activity, evidence that has still not emerged, though she was told by someone friendly and very unofficially at the Contact Centre that they almost certainly didnt have any evidence at all, giving her the impetus for the organised crime prosection. That is what the RIAA do to poverty stricken single parents. So its difficult to feel pity. :-| they are using tactics they developed years ago - everyone has seen key cards, hotel doors use them, some employers use them to control IT access, some technically minded and very dodgy people can also use them and the equipment used to write info to them to pirate cable tv. So the cable companys used to accuse websites who sold the equipment (perfectly legally) of committing various offences, police would raid, take all the customer details, and the cable company would then "assume" every single customer only bought the equipment to pirate their service. And the letters would go out demanding around ooh $5000 (sound familiar?) or you would be prosecuted for cable theft. 98% of customers had bought the cards for genuine needs, but paid out in fright, not being able to afford lawyers and a big court case, there were people like university IT professors experimenting with putting card control on doors in their departments and so on, all genuine legal uses. What many don't realise is that the RIAA and its UK equivelent also have their eyes set on charity and second hand music shops. Why should you be able to go to Oxfam and buy a CD for a couple of quid, they say, the Artist gets nothing out of it when second hand goods are sold, or more importantly though unsaid the "company" doesnt get a cut. well theres a long Ramble!!!! im sure I will have some more thoughts soon

Im taking some on my camera tonight. The plasterer apparently cancelled on him last weekend, not that he bothered to inform us, we were up at 8am waiting, and landlords phone turned off... he complains he cant get through to us on our phones, and yet he is worse to get hold off. Anyways he has just rung and quel suprise Plaster has cancelled AGAIN! still we have been waiting 6 months whats 2 more weeks, I mean its his house if he doesnt mind the kitchen ceiling collapsing and most likely the bath falling through thats his lookout specially when our compensation claim for unsafe house hits him It seems that rather than hireing people to do things he tries to get mates who work for the council to do it, in their spare time. Seems a false economy to me, if the work is bad, or later proves to be negligent at least with a proper professional company there would probably be insurance, or the L'Lords would cover it, somehow I dont think my mate did it in his time off would quite cut it with them. We're not even sure he actually has Landlord or Structure insurance anymore We know he fell out with his insurance company who were supposed to be fixing the kitchen because he was taking so long to sort things. It seems we have to wait ANOTHER day now to find out if hes evicting us or not gives me time to prepare various bills and complaints anyway

There was never a notice requiring posession attached. The actual Contract (which I need to dig out later) is a very bog standard probably bought in WH Smiths Assured Shorthold Tenancy job, for a Furnished House, even though its unfurnished (apparantly he couldnt find unfurnished) So I presume 2 months is still correct then He is coming around tomorrow so we find out then if we are staying or not. If he says out, then he will be receiving a bill for a lot of work stripping the wallpaper in the kitchen to prepare for plastering. deciding to end a Tenancy is hardly a spur of the moment thing, so He got us to do the work while having the intention of evicting us, at the very least he has attempted to profit from our tenancy with that. So what 10 hours at £20 an hour? I expect its a bit of a legal minefield, but one thought (while feeling vindictive last night) is that when we moved in there was a large hole in the living room floor, which someone had attempted to cover up by placing a settee (left by previous tenant) near it in the hope its weight on the carpet would stop anyone falling down! Out of our own expense we had the hole sorted, so maybe if were out on the last day, I might just take a hammer and put the hole back Well, you are supposed to leave the property in the state it was in when you moved in, if we leave it in the state it was in, it could be an extra month or 2 before he can even show tenants around

Thanks for the info Nightmare 2 months from 4th November gives us plenty of time if he does decide to evict, rather than (my imagined) horror that he may have us out by the 4th. Incidently what is the law regarding electrics, we have a couple of sockets that don't work and have brown marks (scorches i think) he new about these at the start but never sent an electrician to sort it or check the electrics in general, though he did get someone to rewire 2 of the lightswitches which were the wrong way round. Im trying to build a little dossier of rules, regulations and his violations so if he does say OUT I can hit him with them. The plasterer we have been waiting 6 months for came round to have a look last week to see what needed doing, the minute he walked into the house he exclaimed "bloody hell, you can smell it (damp) soon as you come in" Im no expert on such things but is Plastering walls and a ceiling that is damp enough that people can smell it straight away wise?

Ok I have been reading some of the other threads, do I understand this right? we have a 6 months assured shorthold tenancy, this comes to an end on the 4th of November, he very possibly wants us out. Does he have to give us 2 months notice to leave, or can he issue us with a notice to leave between now and the 4th giving us either 2 weeks before the 4th, or at any time in the next couple of weeks to leave by the 4th, meaning that we would have to be packed and gone on the 4th?

We think there is a possibility that he wants to move in while his own house is being refurbished, so if he decides to evict us how long do we have? The tenancy ends on the 4th November, so how quick would we legally need to leave once he issues a Notice? Knowing him, he would just verbally say get out end of the month, and forget to issue a written notice, but on the offchance he does, I need to know how much time we would have.

Me and my partners Tenancy (6 months) comes to an end at the end of this month, its been a bit of a mad one - we have paid the rent every month, but late usually a couple of weeks after it was due (on the 4th of each month) We have been waiting for almost the entire tenancy for the Landlord to repair the kitchen, the ceiling is collapsing, chunks of plaster fall off with regularity, smashing crockery the first time it happened, the walls are full of damp, there is a big hole in the floor of one of the rooms and so on. The Landlord is strongly hinting that he wont be renewing our agreement at the end of the month, so what rights do we have? I think its an Assured Shorthold Tenancy (whatever is standard these days in private rental) And there is another thing, we are renting an Unfurnished House but our Contract is for a Furnished House! apparantly he didnt have any copies left :-| I doubt that makes any difference to matters though. So what are the notice periods etc? The Tenancy will officially end on the 21st October, but our rent due date is normally the 4th. How much notice are we entitled to? and what is the correct procedure the Landlord will have to follow to get us out once the tenancy contract is finished?

Hi Tony, the letter received seems to border if not outright break the law, i suspect its an outright violation. They threaten to inform her employers of the debt and make them pay out of the wages (not one mention of the need to go to court and get a CCJ to do this) and they will essentially go knocking around the neighbours to "gather information" on her, how legal is that? In your first post you seem to be explaining an ideal, a dream of how debt collecting SHOULD work, sadly the reality is a lot different, yes there may be one or two people such as yourself who are decent human beings trying to do a fair job, but the vast majority are not. It doesnt even seem to come down to the individual collectors so much either, they are bullying/breaking the law/terrifying people by Corporate Mandate, when the boss says scare people or you dont get your bonus, people tend to do as the boss says. Noone has ever really explained satisfactorily to me why we should have a bailiff system or a system of DCA's threatening to send people around. Im informed by american friends that the concept of a Bailiff is entirely alien to them, they actually asked what a Bailiff was, I explained and they were stunned that there are people who can come banging around on your door and try and threaten your property, all DCA's and the like can do even if they have a version of the CCJ (and im not sure they even have that) is send letters and phone you till you change your number/block theirs, the United States is able to continue and operate as a modern wealthy country suffering no dire circumstances due to a lack of baillifs. I was told its actually pretty difficult to reposess a house. Obviously Hire Purchase on Vehicles are "open game" out there, with teams of Repo Men who will grab your car and leg it with it. hehe Look up Capquest Tony, they are a DCA and they DO buy debts outright, including many that dont "exist" But thanks for taking the time to explain as you see it - if you really do behave as you say then well done, its nice to see some decent people left in that business, but please understand people like you are rarer than dodo eggs in that business

A letter arrived for the previous tenant of my house (missus opened it by mistake) I forget the company name but they are either on behalf or have bought the debt from Yorkshire Water. I have never in my life seen such a nasty letter from a supposedly professional business Proper laying down the law it is. It first makes vague threats that they will investigate her to see if she is employed. If so they will then approach her employer and bank in order to force them to remove payments at source! the letter tells her this will" Cause her HARDSHIP, and more importantly SERIOUS EMBARRESSMENT" They will also send someone around, and if no answer then they will "investigate" ie knock up the neighbours. Far as I can see there is no CCJ, they are simply telling her this is what they can and will do as it stands, without going to court. Im just wondering exactly how many laws the letter breaks? the old tenant according to our landlord never paid her rent and an endless stream of debt collectors letters fall through our letterbox. She does seem to be a serial debtor, who takes out credit and services with NO intention of paying back, and was by all accounts a bit of a nasty peice of work, so im not bothered on her behalf, im just interested as the letter was Nasty and threatening like I have never seen before plus DCA's aint my faveourite people - Im considering copying the letter across to Yorkshire Water to show them what their agents are doing, since YW is also liable for the DCA's action I dread to think that maybe some innocent person, maybe a bit of a dippy OAP whos accidently gotten behind could get a letter like that, would frighten the absolute hell out of them! When I get home I'll copy the whole letter onto here, and the companies name. its endless with the old tenant and the woman before her! NTL, several Banks, 2 mobile phone companies, several bunches of council tax arrears from a few properties, police warrants you name it!! the minute she appears on radar there will be a scrum between court bailiff's and police to arrest her. The only thing through the door I properly followed through was the arrest warrant for council tax, didnt want them breaking into our house, the Police for their thing had a damned good go till we answered the door Companies dont seem to listen to returned letters with "not at this address" sadly :-?

Im not exactly living in a great area at the moment, so as a rule we never answer the door anyway even when someone is expected- always pop upstairs for a look out the window first Plus we have a black steel gate in front of the door which would kind of bugger up peaceful entry should we get behind enough on anything for bailiff's to come round! While around here they tend to be in slightly rougher areas, I think everyone should stick a gate in front of their door - I have seen some pretty ornate ones which wouldnt spoil the look much, gives piece of mind when answering the door - anyone be it bailiff or conman gets stopped.

So does putting their foot in the door count as entry, or is it merely to trick the occupant, or is it in the hope the occupant will give up and let them in ? Me, id probably ram something sharp into their foot, or spray polish i their face to make them back away hehe No Officer, he didnt have his foot in the door, i dont see how he could possibly have been attacked by me...

While IVA does seem to be a useful tool be careful!!!! My parents were put onto one to "save their business" and for some reason the Insolvency Practioner either through intentional behaviour or such sheer incompetence he needs his licence revoked and a good dangling of a bridge forcing them to go bankrupt so choose an IP very VERY wisely

Well im learning from picking your brains Zooman my final confusions - I thought in terms of unsecured debt a Bailiff was only a baillif if there was a CCJ - otherwise they have no rights of entry, or to levy goods? by 18 months, do you mean if you can pay it back within 18 months? if so what about those who genuinly can't, say your debt is 4-5000 and you only have 100 spare a month? I am still concerned over the "force on debtors" bit I read about and the fact that ID would apparantly pose difficulties since a huge amount of people could then be a "bailiff" civil servants for instance. Where I got my information from was some sort of lawyers group - Maybe they are reading to much into it/imaging the worst case scenario were judges to view it a certain way, or maybe they had an outdated/unammended version?