I would say, the only moral obligation you hold towards a debt purchaser is the price they paid for the debt, and a little bit on top for their admin. If they or the original creditor has not adhered to the law and their duties in their operation of your account then its tough on them, were you personally to evade your legal duties etc in the operation of the account they would soon throw you to the dogs. I just cannot come up with any moral or otherwise reason for why a Debt purchaser can buy your debt for 10% or whatever and then demand the entire original owed amount of you, especially since the original creditor is happy having written it off their tax AND made a bit extra. Look how we have to be very careful when issuing CCA requests and SAR'S and so on, having to ensure that the prescribed legal formats and time periods are kept to exactly, and ensuring we have provable records of postage, the company receiving it, taking a payment thats trackable through a postal order or cheque, if we cock that up then its tough on us, the same for the creditors, if they mess up on their paperwork then thats tough on them.

Typical Microsoft facism. One should be entitled to install on as many machines in your house as you like. I havent been near Vista, and frankly dont want to, but I suspect you would only have problems were you to use your PC AND laptop online at the same time. Microsoft have been shouting about how easy it is to create home networks etc from XP onwards, so its sheer stupidity if they can actually physically stop you installing onto 2 machines. Without knowing whether it applies to Vista, but I suspect so, I do believe that were one to aquire a licence key from a friendly tech who works at a university or school or college, or large company.. well the little birds suggest that such a thing would activate with no problem and appear to be legit to Microsoft, since these organisations buy licences that allow the installation onto hundreds/thousands machines, and expect constant reinstalls. Not that an outstanding gentleman like myself would consider or condone committing any actions that could put the Fasci I mean Bill Gates onto the breadline..

But surely, an application form signed or otherwise is no guarantee you were accepted, it merely shows you applied for credit.

Nothing to take, I have emailed them informing them that the tenant they are after is long gone, told them anyone visiting looking for her will be committing a tort of tresspass. May send a snail mail version to, and to any other letters that come for her. They certainly seem a very nasty company, an accidently opened letter a while back showed this, i think i did a post then just to mention what sort of letters they were sending out. God forbid some poor OAP that gets one, terrify the poor people. I did consider giving them some "alternate" addresses where they may find her just to waste their time hehe. given that there are arrest warrants from court bailiff's for fines, and the Police seem to be after arresting her for something else HM Prison might be a good start for them hehe.

Contact your local Councillor for help. It can make a difference. I work for a Council's emergency out of Hours repair contact centre, when peoples boilers etc break down outside of normal office hours, by either law or internal regulation im not sure which, the service provided MUST be equal - we are not allowed to prioritise at all except where their are medical needs involved - seriously ill OAP's who need their wet room functional, people with certain illnesses that need their heating working etc. Except it doesnt work like that! Tenant A: has hot water but no central heating working, and is a 25 year old healthy person Tenant B: has no hot water OR central heating working, and has a very ill child with serious medical needs for both, say a skin condition that needs bathing every hour, or maybe a dialysis machine and the power to wall sockets has gone out. Tenant A knows how things works, and instead of phoning has instead contacted their councillor first, and the councillor puts the call in. Guess which Job we are unofficially officially (if you see what i mean) told to prioritise as standard? yep, Councillor gets absolute priority.

As I say, i am under no legal obligation to carefully scruitnise the names and addresses on mail that comes through MY door, letter pops through, i open it straight away

If its a "room" and can be charged extra rent for, then wouldnt the Landlady therefore be obliged to provide full central heating to it, as in the rest of the house?

Had a couple of those for her! including an arrest warrant for court fines, the bailiff's for which can force entry....

Well I opened the letter by accident, when post comes through your letterbox your entitled to assume its yours, especially when you are working nightshifts and are half asleep when the post comes.... Its endless with the previous tenants troubles though - had everything from a bailiff dropping a walking posession through the door in her name to an Arrest Warrant for non payment of court fines. Im sure It could be argued that if I WERE to start opening mail intentionally it would purely be in the interests of protecting my home and partner, since their has arrest warrants and endless visits by the police looking for her etc etc. When we moved in she had done a runner and left a lot of her property and paperwork behind, including 2 or 3 passports only one being hers, sheets of paper where she had been practicing signatures in different names, antique stuff hidden under the sink, you name it :o She was only there about 3 months before doing the runner and seems to have drummed up several grands worth of fines and debts!

Another letter for the previous tenant with their surely famous "WHERE DID WE GO WRONG?" heading. Since I dislike DCA's and am fed up of the endless junk mail from DCA's arriving for her, I decided to email this for a laugh: Dear Sir/Madam, We have been recieving post for a Miss D Robertshaw at *** *** *** *. This Tenant has not been resident in the property since around February 2006 - We see that you also mention that you have representatives calling at this address on a repeated basis. Please note: There is an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.). As the current tenants, with no connection to Miss Robertshaw I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or your representatives to visit us at our property and if you do so without our permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless, as we have now informed you that Miss Robertshaw is no longer resident here, and indeed has not been for some time. Yours faithfully The Current Tenants

Dealing with Welcome is like hitting your head repeatedly against a brick wall! I answered a call from a women in their office last week, and offered £20 a month, but hopefully more as and when finances dictate, she agreed, but wanted my Debit card details, to which I declined to give - considering how they have been behaving, including the adding of charges for "visits" which never happened, I am hardly going to give them what amounts to a signed blank cheque. I asked if they have those giro slip thingys they can send out for me to use "oh, we don't do anything like that, we can take direct debit or debit card only" I then offered Standing order and she agreed to send me a letter with details for welcome so i can set it up. Letter never arrived, then yesterday I get a call from a different office, chasing payment, pointed out the trouble and threats I had been having with their bloke in the local office, she even agreed with me :o "oh yes, he's known for it" She said they do have a card they can send out for the Post Office, where I can go in and use it to make payments, which would be perfect for me. But then started waffling about going into their local office (the one Zed works at btw) without explaining why i need to go there, said no. She agreed to send out the PO card. Now today im getting missed calls from them... just round and round in squares.:-| I have noticed this now in all my dealings with them, they are absolutely OBSESSED with getting me to visit the local office in person, is this usual for them, does anyone know why, or is it in the hope they can intimidate me more than when im on the phone spouting of my rights at them? They have NO chance of getting me to go in, Frankly, im not a small chap, but the threats of violence made against me are enough that I actually would fear for my safety, going into the offices of a finance company... crazy I keep offering repayments, and the mechanisms for allowing those repayments never materialise, i just get more phonecalls. My very first offer when things went pair shaped, was essentially cut my payments in half, but rearrange the loan to a longer repayment period so that I wouldnt be in arears, but would be able to keep to the monthly payments, an offer flat out refused. So what I should I do. I need to get my act together this week and send out the SAR, the telephone harrassment letter, and of course the famous CCA request just to play with them. Should I start the CCA with "i dont acknowledge any debt" on the offchance they dont have it? Id rather repay it and maintain the moral highground obviously, but im that **()£ with them, and stressed with the threats and fakery going on, i probably wouldnt loose any sleep to screw them on the CCA hehe. Anyone have any suggestions on how to proceed other than those letters? I have call logs I typed up after every call on my PC and a statement from my mother on the telephone calls she received, and I can contact my ex employer to see if she can email a quick note just saying that Zed had made several attempts to contact her and it seemed very "fishy" which was her words. What would happen if i just changed my phone number and sent them a letter to the effect of "ive tried to come to arrangements, and everything that gets agreed is torn apart the next day and phonecalls start again, please take me to court"?? With my logs and statements, partner and her friend dealt with some of the calls and can write a statement to, is there a remotest posibility a Judge would give me a decent repayment plan/write off some of the debt due to the harrassment, or anything else?

just has a letter pushed through my door by a rep of Welcome Finance, sorry you werent in bla bla, £25 charge for the privilage. Do they actually have any right to impose the charge since they did not contact me beforehand to make an appointment? Im going to be sending the tresspass letter, and a strongly worded one about how I will not speak/deal with them at the moment while awaiting legal advise due to their staff committing fraud (through fake "visits" which didnt happen) Ringing up family members masquerading as my bank, ringing up my partner pretending to be a police fraud investigator, actually turning up when I was out and ordering my partners friend to tell her where my work office was so he could "go and sort me out" and scaring the absolute hell out of her. oh and plenty of anonymous phone calls a mix of ringing then ending or waiting till i answer and silence followed by hanging up, it didnt occur to the dimwits that doing this while one of their colleagues is making calls in the background "hello this is so & so from Welcome Finance" is not helpful in the conduct of a good "anonymous" call. then theres the phone calls where towards the END of the call they then advise me that they are recording it. Phoning my mother pretending to be a bank, and then making more calls later during the day threatening HER and told her he would come round later and smash my windows if I didnt phone him! Threatened to go to our Landlord! :? Also made several attempts to contact my former employer masquerading as a bank again I think and fish for information, luckilly the head of HR there is switched on. Informed me they had the legal right to send Bailiff's around without a court order (i guess that recording will disapear lucky im keeping a log) Also informed that by law he can phone me as many times a day as he feels like. In the end got totally *** off and told him to take me to court where I can face a judge and get a decent repayment plan, Oh no he said, not till we add on at least 12,000 in charges for "visits" and phonecalls. Told him fine, but in that case my immediate Bankruptcy upon their application for a CCJ of that amount would scupper his plans, he hung up. Was even phoned by the Branch manager, and he would not deal with my complaint. He also was telling my I was being charged for 3 or 4 home visits a day....

I do not believe that Bailiff's are necessary to 21st century Britain. As someone pointed out, the archaic laws of the right to levy and walking posessions date back to a very different time - a time when Goods/Chattels retained their full value, being as they were things like Livestock. As any goods siezed by Bailiffs in the modern age are only sold on for 10% of their value, the only reason for this to still exist is purely as a Punishment for being in debt, no different to the days when debtors were locked up in prison. The people with 46" plasma televisions and 30 grand cars , in general will probably pay up under the proposed new laws before the bailiff's come to break in. Its like a pointless loop, the people who WONT Pay are why they want to bring in the new laws, but the people who WONT pay seem to generally be the types who CAN Pay, and they WILL pay under the new laws. Which then means that the people who CANNOT pay will feel the full brunt of the new laws. The archetypal terrified single mother and her frightened children WILL be the victims of the new laws, as forcing entry and removing goods will be the only way Bailiffs will get any pay off. In this day and age it would be simplicity itself to have a court impose a fair repayment and instigate a charging order on your wages/bank account to take those affordable payments monthly. If you refuse to hand over details of employment/bank accounts then courts can have the power to trace your employer through your NI number. None of this needs Bailiffs, can be done quickly, cheaply and efficiently. Maybe even put some caveats in that if you get the CCJ awarded against you, then provided you have handed over all the details of Bank Acc, etc then you get to choose a reasonable repayment schedule, if however you ignore everything then large fines/contempt of court etc can apply. So it is in everyones interest to deal with the court, to in effect get yourself a better deal - and heavily advertise the fact. Since the biggest problem of all is Council Tax, I dont really understand why it simply cant be taken at source, IE from your pay before you get it, maybe a little painfull at first introduction but would certainly prevent a lot of future heartache, and again reduce council's costs, all other tax's are removed at source, why not this one. I was in a thread on Bailiff's in another forum, an American poster expressed disbelief and horror that we have these thugs whos job is to force their way into homes and take property, apparantly they dont have bailiffs over there, yet the economy still functions....

Maybe send them a letter charging THEM an hourly rate for the time wasted "waiting" for their debt advisor to come as you were informed

ermmm TRANSPORT OF PRISONERS :o Are certified Bailiffs collecting unsecured debt to be allowed to "Arrest" us to? :o Isnt it enough they will have legal authority to hospitalise us?

But, Blacksheep, you must understand, It doesnt matter who you think it should or shouldnt be used on, they WILL use it on everyone, even more so on those who genuinly cant pay, because those who CAN, just forcing entry will be enough, and a cheque book will soon materialise, those who genuinly cant pay, the bailiffs will break in and take everything, because that will be the only way they could get anything. You have seen how bailiffs operate from this website, you can guarantee they will break in and threaten the residents with a good kicking if they dont pay, and they will give that kicking, simply because its in their power, and they can get away with it. I have been looking at the powers of a Community Support Officer, basically a stripped down Police Officer. They have the power to Detain, but only if the suspect refuses to give a satisfactory answer, or give their Name and Address, and then they can only restrain for 30 mins until the real police arrive. They are ONLY allowed to enter and search into premises in order to save life and limb, or to prevent serious damage to the property (so things like major water leaks etc) Therefore these Unregulated Bailiffs will have far more power and authority than the highly trained back up police force being used in modern Britain. Is that right? A CSO at least is answerable to the police complaints commission, Bailiffs however will be answerable to none.

Even without the arguing over can pay/wont pay, these new laws just simply cross a line, that no government of britain, even at the worst times, even with mad or tyrant kings on the throne dared to bring in.

Don't you think the Police would be better used solving crimes, catching murderers, rapists and peadophiles, rather than acting as Shock Troops for Civil matters? Or would you prefer to see this legislation to its logical extension? Since these are medieval style powers (except not even the barbaric medieval times went THIS far with its laws) Why not bring back Debtors Prisons? Afterall we have historical precedent, and we have modern precedent with council taxx, lets just lock them up....

The problem is, Blacksheep these people who can afford to pay the debt off in one go were the bailiffs to break in, they will ooze out of it somehow... As usual, if these facist laws are brought in, and frankly if they are then the United Kingdom will officially be a dictatorship - no modern 21st century democracy allows nor should allow these actions. And the most important thing of all, is, as is always the way, its the vulnerable, and the people who DONT have the money who will suffer. The rich as always will get away with it, sure the bailiffs might kick the door down, and get cash or a check within 2 mins. What about the people who genuinly cant afford it? Bailiffs will kick the door in and they WILL threaten to use violence unless you pay, and they WILL give kickings to people for not paying, thats what will happen, afterall, all they do once the police turn up is "he attacked me officer" and the police will back away, understanding that bailiffs now have powers even they themselves as officers dont posess. In a way it would be poetic if the first bailiffs to use the powers got murdered/severely injured by outraged tentants.. but the way these things go, it would end up being one of the very few decent bailiffs that got the chop.

Been reading all the info but cant find some specific information. everything says, if you go bankrupt, your account is frozen, and after the order is made, you should open up a basic bank account for wages etc, but what if your existing bank account is already a Basic one? do they still close it, or would they leave it? With around £23,000 of debt and no assets, I think bankruptcy might be the only way forward some of the loans are possibly borderline 6 years and barred, but im not sure, and dont want to go asking the debt collectors till im sure how to proceed. I can't seem to get any joy from Experians online trial, I think the fact I have lived in about 6 addresses including France for a couple of months has confused it :o Interestingly I went on the electoral register last year, and within weeks had demmands from a couple of DCA's, our friends crapquest and Lowell, but I have never heard anything from Cahoot, who are one of the biggest debtors. I live in rented accomodation with my partner, the only "assets" I can think of are a 6 year old 21" tv, and a 3 year old personal computer - would the OR take these? or would their ownership be in dispute enough since there are 2 people living here? Seems strange to be worrying about my creaky PC or TV when considering bankruptcy, but i like access to CAG and dr who when its on tv

Can Council tax Bailiffs legally actually break into your home then? ie an "extremely unpeacefull" entry?

Can any mods merge this with the other? it looks like i accidently created 2! the only contact I had with the solicitor is literally a 2 minute phonecall, where he asked if it was ok to use my name to form a company for my parents, to which I said yes, and pointed out that I would be unable to open a business bank account which he requested due to having such an appalling credit record, that my own bank wouldnt even upgrade my basic account, and I told him I wasnt even sure I would be able to go on as director since my rating was so bad.. no mention at all of any charges, nothing signed by me or my parents. next contact was a bit of a rough A4 inkjet printout which is a certification of incorporation of a private ltd company, surely the government can afford laser printers at the least? and the solicitors compliment slip, followed over a month later by an invoice demanding payment which was a surprise. So the only written contact is a shodily printed certificate and compliment slip and an equally poorly printed invoice. No client care letters, no estimates for work carried out, not even any permission from me for him to be my solicitor. On the phone the impression given to me was, he just needed to use my name and my parents where his clients, not that he was now "working for me" I certainly would not have agreed to my name being used if any extra charges had been mentioned.

no they were NOT avoiding creditors. And the company was not formed to avoid them. they in effect leased the pub from the brewery, paying rent etc. The suggestion from the solicitor to form a new company came AFTER the bankruptcy order was granted, and any property that the Insolvency Service could take had been taken. The company was merely to reassure the Brewery, and allow my parents to continue working with them, ie the brewery prefers to deal with a ltd company rather than 2 individuals. So when the company was formed, the Creditors HAD received everything that could be taken from their finances and assets. They did not want to go bankrupt, and wanted to pay their debts. "Their" pub was owned by the brewery, they just rented it, and took a percentage of the profits. At no point in his extremely brief phonecall was it pointed out to me, that this was not included in whatever the parents were paying him, as I say I have signed nothing with him. If forming the company to try and continue trading (and they would have used their wages to pay sums every month to the creditors as per the bankruptcy order) is dodgy, then I will be happy to see the solicitor in court, since it was ALL through his suggestion and insistance, so he himself has maybe exceeded the law or his duties? In actual fact the Solicitor was even suggesting to them that HE himself would invest in the new company with some capital, as he believed that they would be able to continue operating the pub with decent profit margins. At the very least he has misled me. He even knows that I would have had/have no money to pay for this, as he asked me if id be able to set up a business bank account, and I pointed out that my credit rating was so bad, my own bank wouldnt even upgrade me from a basic account, so he knew I had no means to pay for any bills which he ommitted to inform me would exist..

Not sure if this is the right part of the forum.. while going bankrupt, my parents were strongly advised by their solicitor to form a new company with someone else (me) as the MD so that they could keep the pub they leased, the company was formed by the solicitor, who telephoned me, and asked if it was ok to use my name to sort out the company for my parents, to which I said yes. My parents were under the belief that the formation of the company was all included in the solicitors final bill, he certainly gave that impression to them. Now, I am getting Invoices and threats of Legal action for the sum of £300 essentially for the registration of the company, nothing else included. ( I thought it cost about £50 to register one??) They only agreed to him doing it to save a bit of hassle and going online themselves, he just told them it would take him a tiny bit of time in the afternoon to form the company. When I spoke to him on the phone, he never mentioned to me that there would be extra charges for it, let alone directed towards me. So im wondering where I stand? Certainly I have never signed ANYTHING with him, just agreed on phone that he could use my name to help my parents out. My parents also never signed anything with him. Is there any CCA defence possible, he did whatever he did end of august, beginning of september, and the invoice dropped out of the blue about 5 weeks later, and now another invoice in post today so in effect credit has been granted - like the other one, not containing a contact phone number, no company logo, just clearly a very basic invoice print, with their name printed with the invoice in blue, and the whole thing obviously knocked quickly off on an inkjet printer. from the invoice the company looks just a bit cheap and dodgy This invoice has the legal action threat hastilly scrawled in red ink, the invoice itself does not even mention what the services provided were, and threatens 7 days from the date of the letter, which is the 15th of December, but from the postmark on the envelope was not even posted till the 18th.... As the icing on the cake of a crappy year for them, my parents have only gone bankrupt due to the shocking misadvice and possible willfull negligence of an IVA advisor, and then ended up with this dodgy seeming solicitor...

Not sure if this is the right part of the forum.. while going bankrupt, my parents were strongly advised by their solicitor to form a new company with someone else (me) as the MD so that they could keep the pub they leased, the company was formed by the solicitor, who telephoned me, and asked if it was ok to use my name to sort out the company for my parents, to which I said yes. My parents were under the belief that the formation of the company was all included in the solicitors final bill, he certainly gave that impression to them. Now, I am getting Invoices and threats of Legal action for the sum of £300 essentially for the registration of the company, nothing else included. ( I thought it cost about £50 to register one??) They only agreed to him doing it to save a bit of hassle and going online themselves, he just told them it would take him a tiny bit of time in the afternoon to form the company. When I spoke to him on the phone, he never mentioned to me that there would be extra charges for it, let alone directed towards me. So im wondering where I stand? Certainly I have never signed ANYTHING with him, just agreed on phone that he could use my name to help my parents out. My parents also never signed anything with him. Is