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Man in the middle

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Everything posted by Man in the middle

  1. But, as I've explained, you don't have a route of appeal that has a realistic chance of success. I cannot see the Magistrates' Court agreeing to reopen your case - there's no justification for them to do so. The only other option is an appeal to the Crown Court, but what would be the basis of your appeal? You have been properly convicted and sentenced in accordance with the sentencing guidelines, based on the information the court had when your case was heard. It is not the court's fault that you did not respond to the SJPN. On your own admission, you simply forgot and I cannot see them agreeing to visit your case again. Even if they did, what evidence, other than your own testimony, do you have that you responded to the request for driver's details? Failure in the Crown Court (almost a certainty for the same reasons) will cost you in excess of £1,000 and the original sentence including the fine and costs will remain to be paid. The conviction means the points will remain on your driving record for three years. This is important because if you receive six more in that time you will face a mandatory six month disqualification. The endorsement remains visible on your driving record for four years and the conviction becomes "spent" (meaning you do not have to declare it except if applying for certain positions) after five years. That said, it is not a conviction which should cause too many problems for most people. What you should be prepared for is a considerable increase in your insurance premiums. The endorsement code (MS90) is one which insurers really dislike and do not be surprised if your premiums double for a year or two. You can try an application to the Magistrates' Court to reopen your case, but in the very unlikely event that they agree, I don't really see the point. They are unlikely to set aside the conviction. As above, an appeal to the Crown Court must be lodged by next Friday and you will find yourself in exactly the same situation. Basically, you have no grounds for appeal that I can see. Wait to see if anybody else on here comes in with any suggestions.
  2. Yes, it does mean you have a criminal record. I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you don't seem to have much in the way of options here. What has happened roughly aligns with my thoughts in post #8, except that you did not respond to the SJPN. You knew of the proceedings against you but did not respond. The court was entitled to proceed without your response and they have. In the absence of any input from you it was certain that a guilty verdict would result. The only option you have is to ask the court to reopen your case (under Section 142 of the Magistrates’ Court Act) though quite what reason you would give for making that request would be difficult to understand (certainly for the court, who would have to agree to your request). Had you responded to the SJPN, you may have been able to successfully defend the charge (since you say you did respond to the request for driver's details). It would have been tough. Slightly easier would have been to have persuaded the prosecutor to raise a speeding charge against you instead (again, a tough task but not impossible as it was still within the six month time limit). But now you have been convicted those ships have sailed and I cannot see the court agreeing to reopen your case for either of those reasons. You could ask them to reopen your case to reconsider your sentence. The fine was based on a default weekly income of £440pw and if your income is significantly less than that the request would be worthwhile. But once again, I can see the court turning down your request. If all this fails you could appeal to the Crown Court against either your conviction or sentence (or both). You do not need permission to do this but must do so within 21 days of conviction, so you only have until next Friday to lodge your appeal. In my view you have close to zero chance of success and the Crown Court costs in the event of a failed appeal are more than £1,000 In short, the court has acted properly and had no real choice but to proceed when you did not respond to the SJPN. In these circumstances it is hard to gain a second chance. Others may have some realistic suggestions but I haven't, I'm afraid.
  3. What did you do in response to the "Single Justice Procedure Notice" (that is the letter dated 8th December))?
  4. Correct. Although the SD sets aside the conviction(s) it does not nullify the prosecution. The date it was begun remains intact.
  5. What aren't your cars? There has been no mention of any cars up to now. As above, it is imperative you perform a Statutory Declaration (SD) asap to get the convictions set aside. If for no other reason, one more conviction which attracts points will see you face a "totting up" ban. What happens after that largely depends on the circumstances behind each of the convictions. If they stem from the same incident it is most unlikely you would have been convicted of speeding as they have no evidence you were driving, but stranger things have happened. You need to find out which court convicted you so that you can perform the SD.
  6. Yes, definitely. If you didn't respond to the SJPN then you will have been convicted in your absence (of failing to provide driver's details). But attach the letters and I'll see what I can make of them.
  7. You still misunderstand. From the information you have provided here, you have not been convicted of speeding, you have been convicted of "Failing to Provide Driver's Details." Whatever speed you were doing is irrelevant. It is difficult to provide proper advice because I am still not 100% sure of the chain of events. Did you keep a copy of your response to the SJPN? When you sent it, did you include a statement of means (i.e. your income and outgoings)?
  8. Were you not offered a Fixed Penalty for the offence? It is unusual for the DVLA to go straight to prosecution. Are your details shown against the vehicle completely correct?
  9. Indeed, Manxman. That's what I'm getting to. Perhaps akania can tell us exactly what was done in response to the SJPN and we can go from there. At this stage, provided I have grasped the facts correctly, it's not looking good.
  10. Not speeding. They have no evidence that you were driving. I think it’s clear now. Tell me If any of this is wrong: The vehicle was detected speeding on 29/8/22. Your partner (the Registered Keeper) received a “Request for Driver’s Details” in September. He responded to that request, naming you as the driver. You received a similar request. You responded confirming you were the driver. On 15/12/22 you received a “Single Justice Procedure Notice”, dated 8/12/22. The notice mentioned one charge only – “Failing to Provide Driver’s Details.” You responded to this and have now received notice of the sentence (Fine/costs/points). Did you respond to that SJPN of 8/12/22 by pleading guilty to the one and only charge that it mentioned (i.e. “Failing to Provide Driver’s Details”)? If the answer to that question is "Yes", you have a serious problem from which it may not be possible to recover (though there is a slim hope which I'll explain when you confirm the answer).
  11. Yes that's better. Two last questions: When did you receive the SJP Noticed which you say was dated 8/12/22? And did it mention just the one charge or was speeding included as well? It's important to know this before advising you how to proceed.
  12. Can you give us a timeline of these events because much of what you say is confusing. For example: Nobody "receives a speeding fine". The first approach from the police is normally to the Registered Keeper asking them to provide the driver's details at the time of the alleged offence. If your partner is the Registered Keeper, he or she would have received the request for driver’s details, not you. When did you receive this? How and when did you respond? There are possibly ways to have this situation reverted to the original speeding offence, but without knowing who received what and when, and how it was responded to and when, it is impossible to give proper advice.
  13. The police do not routinely carry out insurance checks when processing a speeding allegation. All you can do is respond to the request for driver's details and let nature take its course. I doubt very much whether there will be any insurance consequences. That said, of course, it is fortunate he was not involved in an accident during the period he was uninsured. There certainly would have been consequences then.
  14. I think that's an excellent response. It covers all the important points and includes a bit of humble "grovelling"! It might help your husband lose some of his anger if he realises that under the fixed penalty legislation the police have no choice but to launch a prosecution when a driver neglects to send in his licence. There is no provision for reminders or anything like that. But I understand his frustration. That said, I think it's very wise of him to allow this matter to be dealt with under the SJP. There is a danger - especially for someone who was "steaming" as you described he was - for their feelings to get the better of them and in court that will do him no favours at all. Responding remotely and calmly, as you have done, removes that risk and is more likely to secure a favourable outcome. Cases handled under the Single Justice Procedure are dealt with by a single Magistrate sitting in an office with a legal advisor, dealing with matters "on papers" only. Nobody else is present. But the powers of that Magistrate are the same (with a few exceptions) as a normal bench of three Magistrates. You should bear in mind that following my advice by no means guarantees success. The SJ may well decide to sentence in accordance with the normal sentencing guidelines as he or she is entitled to do. However, as I said earlier, there should be no reason why some slack should not be given in these circumstances and I think the approach you have taken provides the best chance of that coming about. Certainly better than hubby losing his rag with the Magistrates. Do let us know how it goes. It helps when advising others in similar circumstances.
  15. Most motoring offences are “summary” offences and a prosecution must begin within six months in England & Wales. In Scotland that limit was extended to twelve months as a “temporary” measure at the start of the pandemic. That change still remains in place. However, that does not matter. Dangerous Driving is an “Either Way” offence and there is no time limit to begin a prosecution. It is interesting to note the wording of the letter. It states that you “…did allow said vehicle to be driven on said road overtake on said road,…” So not that you drove dangerously yourself, but you allowed your car to be driven dangerously. It is also interesting to note that the letter states that they are taking this action against you as the “owner” of the vehicle. I wonder how they know that? I also wonder how they believe this automatically puts you in the position of allowing it to be driven dangerously. I have no experience of Scottish road traffic matters but I do know that the Scottish police work in mysterious ways. In England & Wales a manoeuvre such as the one you are alleged to have carried out would not normally attract an allegation of dangerous driving. Careless driving would be far more usual. Also, it is very unlikely that the police would bother to visit you. However, you are where you are. I suggest you simply wait to see what they do next. If they do insist on interviewing you I would recommend you request that it be done at a police station. If it is done there, it will be recorded and you are entitled to have the duty solicitor present. Dangerous driving (if indeed that is what they proceed with) is a serious offence which carries a maximum of two years' custody, a mandatory ban of a minimum of 12 months followed by an extended re-test. It is not really something you should be discussing on your doorstep
  16. No they cannot. He has an absolute right to have a personal hearing and the "Single Justice Procedure" (SJP - under which his case will be initially dealt with) provides for that right. That said, a couple of things need clarifying. He has not received a FPN. He has received a "Conditional Offer of a Fixed Penalty". It may sound pedantic, but the difference is important. One of the conditions of the offer is that he submits his licence in the required timescale. He didn't do that so the offer was withdrawn and he now faces prosecution. Going to court instead of allowing the matter to be dealt with under the SJP will not make matters worse (but see below), but it is unlikely to make them any better. Magistrates have guidance which allows them, in some circumstances, to sentence at the Fixed Penalty level. It says this: "Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in these circumstances." Whilst this problem has been caused by "administrative difficulties" they were, of course, far from being outside the control of your husband. He actually caused them. My advice would be to plead guilty, allow the matter to be dealt with by the SJP and ask that the court considers sentencing him at the FP equivalent. The above guidance could be mentioned together with the acceptance that the error was entirely his fault. A kindly Single Justice may take pity on him or may "split the difference" by fining him £100 but imposing costs. But if he attends court and starts ranting about the injustice of it all he will receive short shrift. Magistrates know that these mistakes happen. They have no wish to excessively punish people for what are simple administrative oversights. The court is entitled to sentence him in the normal way but if he makes a request along the lines I suggest I believe that will provide the best chance of a favourable result.
  17. If he cannot accept the fixed penalty within the 28 days he has to do so, he will be prosecuted in court. His case will be dealt with under the "Single Justice" Procedure and he will be sent paperwork (principally a "Single Justice Procedure Notice") asking he to make a plea. He can plead guilty and ask to be sentenced at a level equivalent to the fixed penalty. Magistrates have guidance allowing them to do this: "Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in these circumstances." There's no need for him to panic about this. If he gets his licence back in time, fine. If not, he has the above remedy available to him. The police have six months (twelve months in Scotland) from the date of the offence to begin court action and in many areas they take nearly all of that time.
  18. I think you have a bit of a problem here. "Love Holidays" is not a tour operator and they are not bound by the package holiday regulations, or by ABTA and ATOL members' conditions. This paragraph from their Terms & Conditions explains their role: "We do not own or operate any of the Travel Services. When you search for Travel Services and make a booking on our platform, our service is only to obtain and provide information about those Travel Services, arrange for you to enter into a contract with the individual provider of the Travel Service in question (the "Service Provider") and to agree payment terms between you and that Service Provider. The Service Provider will be the party responsible for supplying the Travel Service to you." Unless you booked a package (via Love Holidays as your agent) where all the services (flight, accommodation, transfers) are provided by one operator, essentially you have no protection under the package holiday regulations or the ABTA members' conditions. Instead you have contracts with the airline (for your travel) and with the hotel provider (for your accommodation). Any cancellations you make will be subject to Terms & Conditions of those individual organisations You may have a case against Love Holidays as the accommodation is clearly, from what you say, not what you booked. But it will depend entirely on what you asked for, what you agreed to and who with. This is not my area of expertise and others will hopefully be along to assist further, but that's your position as far as I see it.
  19. The only possible avenue for a challenge (bar any administrative deficiencies such as a late NIP) is to check the relevant Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) with the local authority.
  20. I try not to be judgemental, but it is clear you need some assistance with your thinking. Far better to be a "bum on the dole" than to drive whilst disqualified and uninsured and cause an accident where serious personal injury is involved. Fortunately it was only a set of railings this time. If you cannot do your job or get to it without driving then you must consider an alternative. Driving is simply not an option for you and it won't be for some time to come. After any further ban is ended the cost of insurance (if you can get cover at all) will be so prohibitive that you will probably find it cheaper to travel everywhere by taxi.
  21. You cannot be prosecuted for both dangerous driving and careless driving as they are statutory alternatives (that is, if you are guilty of one, you cannot be guilty of the other). For that reason the police will not charge you with both. As far as the insurance matter goes, you (and your brother) have serious problems. You both need to think very carefully about what you tell the police if you are questioned about it (though they may already know what the true position is). If you are charged with either dangerous driving or driving whilst disqualified, you will be eligible to see the duty solicitor on your first appearance only in court. He or she will be able to advise you on your pleas and probably help you with a Legal Aid application, but that's all. If, as you say, you have been earning good money, it is unlikely you will qualify for Legal Aid. However, cross those bridges when they come because for now it's important to wait until you know what you will be charged with.
  22. If you were convicted of dangerous driving you need to take an extended re-test. Under s36 of the Road Traffic Offenders' Act you are disqualified from driving until you pass that test. Until you do, you may only drive as a "provisional" licence holder - that is, you must display 'L' plates and have a qualified driver supervising you. If you were caught on your own or without 'L' plates you were driving whilst disqualified. That offence carries a maximum sentence of six months custody, as does failing to stop following an accident. Were you eventually stopped? If not, have the police made any attempt to contact you? It's impossible to give a view on what the likely outcome will be unless and until you know what you are to be charged with.
  23. If this is so no prosecution is possible. To begin proceedings the prosecution must produce a "written charge" (which goes to the court) and an SJPN (which goes to you). The legislation says these are to be produced "at the same time". If you want to contest this you must find out when these two were produced (when you received the SJPN is immaterial). However, if you don't: Reply to the SJPN by pleading guilty. Also explain that no offer of a fixed penalty was received and request that you are sentenced at the Fixed Penalty equivalent. Magistrates have guidance suggesting they should do this is circumstances like yours: "Where a penalty notice could not be offered or taken up for reasons unconnected with the offence itself, such as administrative difficulties outside the control of the offender, the starting point should be a fine equivalent to the amount of the penalty and no order of costs should be imposed. The offender should not be disadvantaged by the unavailability of the penalty notice in these circumstances."
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