This is the amended defence:- 1. It is admitted with regards to the Defendant having use of a facility to overdraw with the original creditor Bank of Scotland. 2. The defendant denies that the alleged amount of £1010.82 was all for finance service or goods but is mainly a result of unfair and extortionate bank charges/penalties and interest being applied to the account. On the bank statements provided by the claimant, £961.00 in total has been added as penalty charges. £351.00 of which has already been paid, thereby £610.00 being included in this amount of £1010.82. 3. The claimant has refused to enter into negotiations regarding a settlement figure out of court and has refused every offer made by Defendant (1) 4. The amount claimed consists largely of default penalties/charges levied on the account for alleged late, rejected or over limit payments. The court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). I will contend at trial that such charges are unfair in their entirety. 5. The claimant is denied from added section 69 interest within the total claimed that as yet to be decided at the courts discretion. 6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 7. A Subject Access Request was sent to the Claimant on 01.05.2014. The claimant has not complied with this request in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998. The claimant is also put to strict proof to:-. (a) Provide a copy agreement/facility arrangement along with the Terms and conditions at inception, that this claim is based on. (b) Provide a copy of the Notice served under 76(1) and 98(1) of the CCA1974 Demand /Recall Notice and Notice of Assignment. © Provide a breakdown of their excessive charging/fees levied to the account with justification. (d) Show how the Claimant has reached the amount claimed. (e) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim. (f) Show how they have complied with sections III & IV of Practice Direction - Pre-action Conduct. 8. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

I'm just doing the amended defence for the new claim. Andy, so you reckon it's worth doing a counterclaim for the penalty charges?

I presume that they will now do another one for me, but the last one does include me, so maybe not?? I did my partner's ws, see post #117 mine will be very similar, it is however still very raw. With a new claim being issued, would I get the chance to go to mediation too?

so it's worth putting cost in then, in the event that we are successful ?

so for the next one, can we both put in costs for our loss of earnings and petrol and parking, also the litigant in person costs?

I was added on. I feel a bit deflated, I didn't expect that. The barrister quoted something out of the cpr book which I didn't understand. The judge said it is just a formality to add me now, to stop them adding me at a later date. They can also add me even if I've been removed apparently. So, next week's hearing is vacated and we have to submit an amended defence and separate witness statements. The new hearing will be in January sometime. The judge asked them about costs and they said there aren't any, he then asked my partner and he said that he wasn't asking for costs either. He then prompted him to ask how he'd got here and did he pay parking, my partner was a bit stumped and said yes he'd parked. The judge then asked him how much it had cost, partner said £4 and then the judge asked about loss of earnings, but my partner is self employed. The judge then made an order for them to pay costs within a fortnight of £4 to my partner.

You need to submit everything that you are going to rely on. Add it into your ws as exhibit 1, exhibit 2 and so on..... and label each one accordingly. Make sure you send copies to the other side, because if they don't have a copy, then the judge could refuse to take it into account altogether

Thanks! We've got to leave for court now and it's not prepared, so I am going to come back and do it this afternoon, then take it back before 4pm. Can you suggest any edits and/or omissions, additions? Thanks

Yes but I thought a ws had to be in court 7 days before the hearing? The next hearing is next Thursday, so we planned to file it with the court whilst we were there today

Andyorch, are you around? I think this is a bit too raw to give to court tomorrow, can you please have a look and give me advice?

This is what I have drafted in response to the 2nd witness statement receive, as at post #111 1. I, ****** make this statement in response to the Witness Statement of ******, dated ******* and submitted on behalf of the Claimant, 1st Credit Finance Limited. The matters referred to in this statement are within my own knowledge, except where I have indicated otherwise. I am a litigant in person. 2. The witness statement was received on ******, therefore ****** did not have permission by the court to add ****** onto the claim, as the Hearing to add***** is set for 22.10.2014 3. No Default Notice has ever been received in relation to this account. The one referred to in the witness statement of ****** is not for this account. The screen shot provided is irrelevant, as it was clearly never actually actioned. Therefore, there is no original Default Notice in the exhibits as is ordered at number 8 on the Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing). 4. A subject access request was sent to HBOS and to 1st Credit Finance on 01.05.2014. See exhibit 1 & 2. This request was not complied with in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998. HBOS and 1st Credit are therefore in breach and at no time have they made an attempt to rectify this. A CPR 31.14 request was sent to 1st Credit on 28.04.2014, to date, no response has been received. See exhibit 3 5. Upon reading the statements of account, it is clear to see that there are large amounts of disproportionate penalty charges applied. On numerous occasions, a penalty charge took the balance over the limit, which then resulted in another penalty charge being added. The account was over the overdraft limit on 23 occasions, each one as a result of either a penalty charge or interest, never through spending. See exhibit 4. In the four years from January 2006 to January 2010, the most I was ever overdrawn by was £116.00, which was as a result of £117.00 of charges being added to the account on 19.09.2006 and 22.09.2006. The charges in total on this account amount to £996.00. The Court will be aware that these charge types and the recoverability thereof have been judicially declared to be susceptible to assessments of fairness under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999. The Office of Fair Trading v Abbey National PLC and others (2009). Such charges are unfair in their entirety. 6. I contacted the bank in January 2010 to ask them to close the account and allow me to pay the balance in installments. At the time, I was under incredible financial strain. As I was self-employed, my business was suffering immensely in the financial crisis which had been started by the banks and was no fault of my own. I was not earning enough money to cover my outgoings and also pay these extortionate bank charges. There were some weeks where I earned no money whatsoever. The bank refused to close this account until February 2011 during which time, a further £610.00 had been added onto the account as penalty charges. The fact that I had been notified of any charges, as per number 5 of ****** witness statement, didn’t mean that I could afford to pay them or materialise the money. With regard to number 6 of ****** Witness Statement, had the bank closed the account when I informed them that I would be unable to afford £5.00 a day, the subsequent unarranged overdraft fees of £610.00 would not have been added. I can only conclude that the bank saw this as an easy way to apply charges and make money out of my misery. 7. At the time, I had a young family, with a special needs daughter. I had two credit cards, which I was using to juggle money for essentials. Between the two credit cards and this bank account, over many years, I was being charged on average £100.00 a month on penalty charges, which undoubtedly made my situation much more stressful. I was stuck in a cycle which I couldn’t break out of and it was snowballing. On 22.04.08 my mother took out a loan for £3,500, which can be seen on the accounts as a credit. This was to help with my dire financial situation and to stop these unfair and constant bank charges. I subsequently cleared off the credit cards and paid her back whenever I was able to. It was around this time that the credit crunch reached a peak and customers were few and far between as everybody was under financial strain. 8. As per number 8 of ****** Witness Statement, the debit of £35.10 is from a very old online affiliate account, I had no idea that this payment was going to be made and therefore I could not advise the company that this was now a disputed bank account. 9. During mediation and by correspondence with the claimant, I was willing to open up negotiations into settling this matter without the need for Court action. The claimant was not willing to negotiate a settlement figure and refused my first offer and proceeded with Court action. I always felt that Court action was unnecessary and was disappointed with the stance 1st credit adopted in refusing to negotiate. 10. As per number 12 of ****** witness statement, the charges were never accepted. These charges are seen as unfair by the court and are fully recoverable. Depending on the outcome of this case, it will be necessary to re-claim these charges with interest. Which would take the amount to a similar one that the defendant is claiming in this case. Which in my opinion renders this whole claim farcical. 11. With regard to number 16 of ******Witness Statement, 1st Credit do not have a valid telephone number for myself or ******. Therefore all contact has been via letters. Summary - not done summary yet

All set for Court tomorrow, (the hearing to add me) will let you know the outcome

I'm onto it right now

ok, should we draft ours then (one each?) ready for the subsequent hearing? I'm worried that if that ws is referred to by the judge in next week's hearing then my partner's ws doesn't answer any of those points

I am the in house solicitor in the employ of the 1st credit limited and I have conduct of this matter on the claimant’s behalf. I am authorised by the claimant to make this witness statement and the contents of this witness statement are true to the best of my knowledge, information and belief unless otherwise stated in which case I believe them to be true. There is now produced and shown to me in exhibit ‘LC2’ various copy documents to which I shall refer by page number. I make this statement in support of the claimants claim Background to the claim The claimants claim is for £1,010.80 for monies due and owing together with costs and interest. The claim relates to Halifax current account reference ************ BOS granted the defendant and ****** an overdraft facility. The defendant fully utilised the overdraft facility which is evidenced by way of bank statements exhibited at pages 1 to 14. At page 1 is the information regarding charges applicable to the account under the heading “fees explained” it states that the arranged overdraft fee is charged at the daily rate of £1.00 up to a limit of £2,500, and a daily rate of £2,00 applies above that limit. It also states that the daily fee for an unarranged overdraft is £5.00 per day. For clarity no written agreement is available because the account is a debtor-creditor agreement enabling the debtor to overdraw on a current account. As such it is an excluded agreement pursuant to section 74(b) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 The defendant and ****** were pre-notified of the charges and interest that would be debited from the account as evident from the entries in the statements in this regard indicating those amounts had been ’previously notified’ or ‘charges as notified’. The defendant and ****** were therefore aware of those charges from the statements sent to them. From January 2010 it is apparent that the account incurred unarranged overdraft charges (page 12). The defendant and ***** failed to bring the account within the pre-arranged limit or within credit. On 24.04.10 the BOS issued a default notice to the defendant and ****** seeking repayment of the whole debit balance totalling £729.63. A copy of the template letter sent is at pages 15 to 16. The default notice screen entry is at page 17. The last transaction recorded on the account is credit in the sum of £35.10 on 25.2.2011 leaving a balance of a debit balance of £979.53 (page 12) (“the debt”) Assignment of the debt On 18.11.14 BOS assigned the debt to the claimant. On 03.12.14 the claimant on behalf of BOS sent a notice of assignment and an introductory letter to the defendants address at ********* It should be noted that it remains as the defendant’s current address for service. Copies of the notice and letter are produced at pages 18 to 20. They have not been returned as undelivered. On 4.9.14 a notice of assignment was sent to ****** also at the above address. A copy of the notice and introductory letter is attached at pages 21 to 23. A copy of the claimants letter to ****** confirming its intention to add her to these proceedings and enclosing all the relevant information including the claim form and particulars of claim details it at pages 24 to 25. It should be noted that the claimants application hearing to add ****** to these proceedings has been listed for 22.10.14. The claimant has filed this statement to comply with the court order dated 16.9.14 which erroneously includes two hearing dates. The claimant’s email of 22.9.14 and a copy of that order is at pages 26 to 29. Despite my best efforts I have not been able to get through to the court by telephone to confirm the correct date of the hearing. This witness statement has been filed in the event the small claims hearing is listed 30.10.14 The claimant attempted to recover the debt utilising telephone calls and letters but it did not receive the money due and owing. Defendant’s defence The defendant maintains that the overdraft amounts to ‘penalties/charges’. It is plainly evident that the account was nearly always overdrawn from January 2006 and the higher fees for the unarranged element of the account applied from January 2010. Before January 2010 the defendant and ****** used the overdraft facility and paid into the account regularly. Charges/interest applied and credits were paid into the account thereby indicating that the defendant and ****** accepted those charges. The statements clearly demonstrate that the defendant and ****** made full use of the overdraft facility by using it to pay for good and services on a regular basis. Further the defendant was notified of the charges and rate of interest for the relevant period within the statements. The claimant’s position is that those charges were properly notified and therefore not unfair. The claim The particulars of claim contains a concise statement of the nature of the claim detailing that it arises from an overdraft facility in connection with a Halifax/bos account; that it was assigned to the claimant; and a notice of assignment was sent to the defendant and to ****** The particulars of claim also details the amount of the original debt and the fact that statutory interest is charged on the debt at a rate of 8% per annum and it also informs the defendant of the daily interest rate. Before issuing this claim the claimant attempted to contact the defendant numerous telephone calls and letters. The claimant also attempted to contact ****** and is currently awaiting on the outcome of its application to add her as party to these proceedings. The defendant and ****** are therefore aware of the claim details. The claimant seeks payment of the arrears of this overdraft account which is payable on demand. Conclusion The claimant seeks judgment for the amount claimed together with interest as pleaded (or at the rate the court considers appropriate) together with fixed costs as follows:- Court fee £65 Solicitor fixed costs £80 Hearing fee £115

I'm a bit confused now, we have both just received (in separate envelopes) another witness statement from the same person for next week's hearing

right, so I'm just about to send the ws to 1st credit. I also need to start the next ws for the next hearing. There are 3 hearings altogether, but not entirely sure why we need another two?

ah right, in the past, the court have taken it and served it on the other side, so it confused me Thanks again!

Ok, my partner has just taken the three bundles to court and they only stamped them with a 'received date stamp' not the usual round court stamp. Also, they only took one copy and told him that he can send it to the other side. Is this normal?

Great thanks

Need to get this court in next couple of hours, andyorch are you around to give one last check over?

I can't thank you enough for all your help andy! I've made a few amendments and added your summary, if you think this is good enough, we will be taking it to court tomorrow in time for the hearing 1. I, ******** make this statement in response to the Witness Statement of *******, dated ******* and submitted on behalf of the Claimant, 1st Credit Finance Limited. The matters referred to in this statement are within my own knowledge, except where I have indicated otherwise. I am a litigant in person. 2. ****** was removed from this account after a breakup in the relationship in 2003 and since that time, it has been in the name of ****** solely. If it was still a joint account, then the claim would have been issued in both names from the beginning, avoiding the need of Court action at this time. Both myself and ****** requested that she be removed from the account in writing. ****** opened another account with a different bank at the same time. It served no purpose whatsoever to keep it joint. 3. I have never received a Default Notice in relation to this account. The one referred to in the witness statement of ****** is not for this account. There is no original Default Notice in the exhibits as is ordered at number 8 on the Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing). 4. A subject access request was sent to HBOS and to 1st Credit Finance on 01.05.2014. See exhibit 1 & 2. This request was not complied with in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998. HBOS and 1st Credit are therefore in breach 5. As per number 10 of ****** witness statement, there is no issue involving any other party. The claimant has failed to provide any evidence that ****** is connected to this matter. The alleged agreement is now singular and not joint and several. There is no benefit whatsoever, in adding a new party to the account at this stage. Therefore, not only is it not desirable to add any new party, it is in fact counter productive and waste of the Court’s time as ****** is no longer connected to this agreement. The Court can resolve all issues in dispute without the need to add any new party. It is clear that the claimant wishes to add ****** for any future execution reasons. To issue two county court Judgements rather than one, or to issue a Charging Order in the future. This is considered underhand and viewed as vexatious. 6. Upon reading the statements of account, it is clear to see that there are large amounts of penalty charges which are applied. On numerous occasions, a penalty charge took the balance over the limit, which then resulted in another penalty charge being added. I contacted the bank in January 2010 to ask them to close the account and allow me to pay the balance in instalments. I was under incredible financial strain. As I was self-employed, my business was suffering immensely in the financial crisis which had been started by the banks and no fault of my own. I was not earning enough money to cover my outgoings and also pay these extortionate bank charges. The bank refused to close this account until February 2011 during which time, £610.00 had been added onto the account as penalty charges. 7. During mediation and by correspondence with the claimant, I was willing to open up negotiations into settling this matter without the need for Court action. The claimant was not willing to negotiate a settlement figure and refused my first offer and proceeded with Court action. Summary It is therefore requested that the claimant be denied its application pursuant to CPR 19.2(2) (a) and (b) for the aforesaid reasons. The claim is a simple matter that can proceed against the defendant as per the amended agreement as the claim stands now. There is no need for further amended particulars.

I've now added to para 5:- As per number 10 of Lily Chan’s witness statement, there is no issue involving any other party. The alleged agreement is now singular and not joint and several. There is no benefit whatsoever, in adding a new party to the account at this stage. Therefore, not only is it not desirable to add any new party, it is in fact counter productive and waste of the Court’s time as ****** is no longer connected to this agreement. The Court can resolve all issues in dispute without the need to add any new party. It is clear that the claimant wishes to add ****** for any future execution reasons. To issue two county court Judgements rather than one, or to issue a Charging Order in the future. This is considered underhand and viewed as vexatious. Summary In summary due to the claimant’s breach of the Subject Access Request and inability to produce a valid Default Notice relating to this account, I respectfully request that the Court does not make an order adding ****** or any other new party to these proceedings.

Thanks, I'll get onto that now. Just another thing that I would like to ask you, to clear it up in my head. Is this ws just for the hearing to add me, or for the other two hearings as well? Same goes for their ws, will they be submitting another for the other hearings?

This is my final draft of the WS, any help would be greatly received:- 1. I, ******* make this statement in response to the Witness Statement of ******* dated ******* and submitted on behalf of the Claimant, 1st Credit Finance Limited. The matters referred to in this statement are within my own knowledge, except where I have indicated otherwise. I am a litigant in person. 2. ******** was removed from this account after a breakup in the relationship in 2003 and since that time, it has been in the name of ******* solely. If it was still a joint account, then the claim would have been issued in both names from the beginning, avoiding the need of Court action at this time. Both myself and ****** requested that she be removed from the account in writing. ****** opened another account with a different bank at the same time. It served no purpose whatsoever to keep it joint. 3. I have never received a Default Notice in relation to this account. The one referred to in the witness statement of ****** is not for this account. There is no original Default Notice in the exhibits as is ordered at number 8 on the Notice of Allocation to the Small Claims Track (Hearing). 4. A subject access request was sent to HBOS and to 1st Credit Finance on 01.05.2014. See exhibit 1 & 2. This request was not complied with in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998. HBOS and 1st Credit are therefore in breach 5. The alleged agreement is now singular and not joint and several. There is no benefit whatsoever, in adding a new party to the account at this stage. Therefore, not only is it not desirable to add any new party, it is in fact counter productive and waste of the Court’s time as ****** is no longer connected to this agreement. The Court can resolve all issues in dispute without the need to add any new party. It is clear that the claimant wishes to add ****** for any future execution reasons. To issue two county court Judgements rather than one, or to issue a Charging Order in the future. This is considered underhand and viewed as vexatious. 6. Upon reading the statements of account, it is clear to see that there are large amounts of penalty charges which are applied. On numerous occasions, a penalty charge took the balance over the limit, which then resulted in another penalty charge being added. I contacted the bank to ask them to close the account as I was under incredible financial strain and as I was self employed. My business was suffering immensely in the financial crisis which had been started by the banks and no fault of my own. At the time, I was not earning enough money to cover my outgoings and also pay these extortionate bank charges. The bank refused to close it and instead added £5 per day in interest. they did this knowing that I was in financial difficulty. Which leaves me to believe they saw an easy way to make money and worsen my situation considerably. In the event that ******* be added to the account, she will have no option other than to make a counterclaim for the disproportionate penalty charges on that account.