Bandit127
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Hi All. I am trying to learn about the legal process for litigation on consumer debt and I have some questions I hope you can help me with. Lots of threads have people requesting paperwork from creditors using CPR 31.14 (agreements, default notices, notices of assignment etc). Where a creditor fails to comply, some people are using form N244 to request that the court order the production of the documents. I think I am I missing something... 1. Is it not better to defend on the lack of documents and allow the creditor to hang themselves at the hearing? 2. Does this risk an ambush on the day of the hearing where they turn up with the documents? 3. Can you change your defence if this happens when they have failed to comply with the original request? 4. Is there any other sanction for failing to comply with a 31.14 request? It seems to me that using N244 is getting the court to do the creditors job for them.
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Yet another example of the inequitable system - which is set up to protect the majority of innocent people - failing. Any business in another sector would have stopped posting to your address. Somehow the balance needs to swing back from the debt collection industry to the ordinary person - how much money is being paid by normal people who don't have the gumption to fight back against this? And don't owe the money but just want a quiet life? Sorry for the rant, but it is just SO wrong.
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I suspect, like my credit report, they are reporting your payments on a defaulted debt. My default date on my file stands as 2008, but each month my payments are recorded with a big red D for default. This (apparently) is in order. Please check and confirm your default date on your credit file.
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Disregarding arguments about opening mail addressed to others (the DCA will not care about that) you should start sending back 'not known at this address'. You should do that for every letter you get for her from now. Brig's advice about checking your credit file is spot on. I used Noddle which is free for life. But don't expect that to be the last of it (although I hope it will be).
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Just read through your thread phaitun. I wish you the very best in the coming days. I hope you get an outcome that justly reflects the shoddy treatment you have had from the creditors and their representatives. But I suspect (like you) you might get ambushed. You are proactive and will be prepared for that I think. That the system can put so many trapwires in the way of a defendant LiP and give creditor's solicitors so much leeway staggers belief. I truly hope you achieve justice. For you - but also for the future battles many of the members and lurkers who are reading this thread are likely to face. And may well have thrown in the towel faced with the battle that you have fought. Thanks for your story and your fortitude. Good luck. Bandit
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Careful with the line about S.127. That was repealed in the CCA 2006 so only applies to agreements made prior to Apr 2007.
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**URGENT**Help needed with defence against Restons/HSBC
Bandit127 replied to kayastley's topic in Financial Legal Issues
I suspect that HSBC used the right to set off to put your balance from the loan in to your personal account once both accounts had been defaulted. This (perhaps incidentally) will deprive you of your rights under the CCA for the loan. I am still trying to understand what defence you might have against this, but it seems very wrong to me. EDIT - sorry, the above post is out of sequence and may be irrelevant to the thread. -
A primer for County Court prcedures please?
Bandit127 replied to Bandit127's topic in Financial Legal Issues
Thank you. A good starter and enough reading for a few days of thought and further research. -
Hi All. I owe money. I know that and I am paying on post default agreements and I am up to date with both DCAs for those. However, they are bullying me for more money that I can't afford and I am now pushing back. Like most in the Debt Collection Industry forum I understand the basics of the CCA 1974 (S77-79 and 127), the Data Protection Act 1998 and a little bit of about the process of common law. I have also read about estoppel (my DCAs obviously haven't). Background thread I would like to prepare for the worst, which is to defend (or know when not to) in a County Court. Or Small Claims Court - one debt has a balance of less that £5,000. I have been reading threads on this forum and I am still totally confused by CPR 34 this and 15 that. And N244s. Please could someone post a link to "County Court Procedures for Dummies" or something similar? As above, I am up to date with my agreements and hope it won't get to court. But I want to be prepared if it does - currently I would probably fold if I got a summons on the doormat... TIA.
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Tell them you are recording the calls. This usually makes them behave. Then tell them you will deal in writing only and (if you want to) hang up. Send them this:
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Do both if your son is up for handing it out if someone turns up. And I suspect he will be... The chances are they will not turn up. This is a standard threat letter specifically designed to get you on the phone where they can say stuff they would never put in a letter. A doorstep call without an appointment is out of order and probably worth a formal compliant.
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You should tell your son that, if someone does call, he should tell them that you are not in and that they must leave or he will call the police. No more than that and the response is entirely legal. You could explain to him that they are bullying/victmising you if they do turn up and that you will arrange to sort it out in writing. This is your legal right and (I think) morally fine for a teenager to get his head around. The chances are that they will not, but your peace of mind is worth it I think.
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A quick update from me. SAR sent to HSBC for all 3 debts that DLC are handling (err, actually 2). That will tell me if the actually have CCAs for the debts. After much reading it is my view that an original is required under S.127 of the CCA 1974 for these debts to be enforceable in court, as they are from before 2006. Carey vs HSBC allows DLC to supply me reconstituted agreements to comply with my current CCA request, that is what I expect they will try to do. I look forward to the one they provide for the combined account - I suspect I now know why they might write back saying the CCA 1974 doesn't apply and they don't need to provide an agreement. I will (hopefully) get ammunition from HSBC via the SAR and DLC via the Statement of Account for that. In the meantime, I need some help with the BCOBS please. Combining accounts is not mentioned as unfair (specifically) in any of the stuff I have read. Can someone please let me know exactly how I can use BCOBS to complain about the combined account? P.S. I wrote a letter of complaint (posted Tuesday) about the phone calls I got after the "by letter only" instruction. I got an acknowledgement letter back for each account today with a copy of the complaints procedure saying they will respond in 5 days. And the phone has been quiet since Monday (not saying that proves anything... LOL)
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I have had this from DLC in the last couple of weeks. I think they have just installed an automated computer calling system... Do not answer - simply hang up. (LMAO - "Are you Bandit127? ... Press 1 for yes or 2 for no... " :-D:-D) You should write to them. Insist that they communicate strictly by letter and that they remove all phone numbers they hold for you under the data protection act. (I didn't include that I will "be responsible in communicating by return" in my letter, but I have read this since and I think it is a good idea). I did this and they still phoned so I put a formal complaint in to them yesterday stating that their calls were causing me distress and they need to apologise. I am keeping a log of the calls (date, time and phone number) and will complain to the Information Commissioner if the calls do not stop from today (receipt of my complaint) or I do not get a formal apology from them after my complaint. Send all letters recorded (I used signed for) and good luck.
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Harrassed by Lowell - Debt not mine
Bandit127 replied to foggy123's topic in Debt Collection Agencies
I have just read through this thread and I am staggered about how badly you have been treated by the system. A lot of us reading and posting here are victims of bullies that take advantage of an unjust system but your treatment has been outrageous. I want to thank you for having the courage to post up and the courage to fight back. It makes my tiny little fight look pale in comparison, but it gives me inspiration to carry on and not apathetically "put the pen down". I am so sorry you got the outcome you did from the court. We all get taught the value of justice as we grow up. I think you have not only been let down by the justice system but society as a whole. Your story should be on the front pages... Good luck with the fight now. It will be worth it when you do achieve justice. And I hope the Guardian (if not the Daily Mail) are there to take your picture as you walk down the steps. I also hope Lowell loose their license and end up having to pay you every penny of the compensation you deserve. -
Just checked via Noddle and the owner is Hillseden (aka DLC and a few others). They are reporting the combined accounts as separate... now I am confused. They are also reporting the balances wrong, but the sum is right as of May.
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The wording says that they are awaiting a copy of the agreement and statement of account from the original lender HSBC. I am pretty sure I got something that said the debt had been transferred (unlike when Metropolitan started handling it). Thanks everyone else for the helpful posts.
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It happened after I defaulted. They didn't ask me and I didn't agree. When it got to the DCA (Metropolitan at the time) it became one account number with the total of the two outstanding accounts became the sum to be paid. That account got sold to DLC not long after. I agreed monthly payment that I carried on for about 18 months. until about 8 months ago when DLC phoned threatening all sorts and wouldn't accept continued payments. I was ill at the time and agreed a 12% increase to keep them off my back. The stress was not insignificant and took a good 3 weeks to get over. I have continued with the new agreement since and haven't missed a payment. The calls started again a few weeks ago, but this time I wanted to push back. I am paying what I can afford and don't want to repeat the stress from 8 months ago. Hence my question. Basically, what are my rights on this combined debt - DLC would obviously like me to think I have none...
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I was with them for probably 15 years before my financial meltdown in 2007 (redundancy, a new job on less money and the collapse of the housing market all hit together). Have submitted a CCA request - they have returned saying they have referred the request to HSBC. Waiting now. About to look up what a BCOBS is to understand that... Thanks for your help so far.
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Hi All. New here and I can't believe it has taken me so long to find such a good forum... I need some advice on a debt that is with Direct & Legal Collections. It comprises of two debts that HSBC put together - an overdraft and a loan - in 2008 after I defaulted on them. Both debts were created previous to 2007. The combined debt is being collected by DLC and I am up to date with my agreed payments on it. My question is - can they legally do this without my agreement? Surely this creates a new debt that I did not agree to? I cannot find the link now that says combined debts are unenforceable. I am not looking to avoid payment - just push back on the horrible phone calls I get every 6 months demanding more money. TIA.
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