Hi Ruby . Now you see why it is pointless communicating with TVL. They don`t believe you .... you have done everything [ although you`re not legally required to do so] to inform them of your status but still they want to play games. 1. Stop communicating with them . 2. If someone calls to find out why you are no longer a TVL payer, don`t bother explaining yourself. Don`t confirm who you are & shut the door. 3. Never ever let them in to your home. This is an absolute golden rule. Never ever sign anything " just to say we called / or for our records" because they will falsify & you will be hanging yourself., this form is a 178 & is a legal document they use to trick people with. 4. Bin the letters they will send you & please don`t worry about scary red print & threats of " investigation & court" . 5. Enjoy your new found freedom & put the money saved to a far better use. Lastly........... well done on going legally licence free.

Ah, i knew it was you. Over & out Beeboid.

Can one of the Admin / mods , please tell me why this post has been edited & why no explaination is given when editing is done. Even via a PM

None of us are, although sometimes it can be immense fun:wink: . We all belong to a demographic that is often prone to abuse, especially more so these days, be it, being on benefits , unable to work for whatever reason, in debt, or just not able to cope, or any one of the reasons that people are vulnerable . Anyone can hit hard times ,i don`t like bully`s & the BBC is just that, their record of, wasting money & treating the public with a shocking contempt is the reason i hope to see them forced to survive on their own, not publicly funded Anyway.... Good luck .

I wholeheartedly agree:shock:, being nice to people can work wonders, i assume it is most people`s default position in life. Not for any gain but it makes the world a more enjoyable place to be......... , as i have already stated , it dose not extend to Capita salesmen / women .

1. I did say that it was no longer a legal requirement prior to the selected quoting, and then used the past tense 'required' Check your quote, no selective quoting here. You say it is not required , no mention of the word " legal" . I pointed out that some are still continuing with this practise, for financial gain, as a warning to be careful. You also posted on another TVL topic recently, stating, that it was a legal requirement for companies selling equipment capable of receiving live feeds to inform TVL. I & another member corrected you, check your post history. 2. Actually, that is correct. There was an obligation to provide details to TV Licencing (or the Beeb, as it was many moons ago). It was one of the system inputs. (edit: I did not mean social landlords - which three decades ago didn't exist, and I'm hazy whether it included private landlords, too much time has passed together with my design notes. IIRCc it was details of an occupied property, not the name of the dweller) You will know then that is is illegal for outsourced companies, Capita in this case, to have access to cross reference data on who or whom is the legal occupier . So you are not correct. The property is listed on the data base, as all properties in the UK are, not the LO. This is why they address it to the Legal occupier when you let your licence slide or move into a new property & don`t contact them. 3. Again, it is correct. My 'source' is that I was one of many who validated the SSADM system design. How else do you think TVL (edit: generic term, not the current entity known as TVL) maintained an address database? One of the lacking inputs was a means - other the 10-year aging out - of demolished properties, hence licence reminders being sent to non-existent addresses. Exactly, they do not have a legal right to the LO name, only property details, which, as you have said , become obsolete. 4. Perhaps slightly misphrased on my part. By all means, like any other junk mail bin it. On the other hand, why not have some fun with them? If you don't need a licence, tell them, they will stop hassling you. If you want some fun, waste their time. Dont get me wrong, I think the fee is anachronistic and should be abolished, and I don't agree with some of the methods used to collect it nor the lack of any attempt to stamp them out. By wasting their time you not playing into their hands - either way one day someone may knock at the door anyway. Not good advice for newly LLF members. If you & others want to have some "fun " as you put it, then that`s your choice & enjoy it, but at the risk of re repeating myself. We owe it to members who are looking for advice, that they are given , legal, secure , concise & confidence building advise on how to deal with TVL & any callers representing them. The no contact rule is a proven place to start them off from. If they then decide to have fun with letter tennis or use WOIRA that is their business . 4. Do you always treat people in such a fashion? I find that being polite and reasonable with people works wonders. Its like demanding a refund, asking for a refund. Option B works wonders. You immediately assume that ALL agents of TVL are liars and cheats? I've dealt with many reasonable honest individuals, and one ignorant prat. He was treated with the same courtesy I would accord any other stranger in life, until they demonstrate they are worth otherwise. Someone stood at your door askign you to fill in a form? Simple "no thank you, goodbye" and close the door. They start to harrass or pester, what a shame my dog was outside at the time - there is a warning of a dog. You wish to obtain a warrant - feel free, I either have a licence, or dont have an antenna connected to the TV. But I won't be rude to someone on the basis of whom they work for, not until they show that they should be treated with the contempt they deserve. You can choose to be as polite as you want, it is not a popularity contest & no prizes are given out. I have no interest or trust or even respect for people who choose to do this particular job. I wonder how many vulnerable old people , single mothers on benefits [ the biggest group TVL take to court for prosecution] & the legally naive they have screwed over this week. I think on a consumer advice site , we should be looking out for the consumer [ or non consumer in this case] & not be worried about hurting the feeling or appearing to be rude to a Capita salesman at the door.

If anyone has any doubts about how Capita /TVL / BBC, love to get issued with a WIROA . Here is a link about a current Face Book page that is strongly suspected to be have been set up for the sole purpose of mis information & catching people after they have been encouraged to go down the WIROA route. It is a very long topic but well worth the effort & should open a few eyes as to how devious & untrustworthy the whole TVL collection business is. Secondly , i would like to apologise to Renigadeimp for my " wibble wobble " comment . It is not helpful or harmonious to the site & although i strongly disagree with his / her views, i should know better than to resort to silliness. My sincere apologises to you Renigadeimp. The back story , these 2 people have set up a FB group with virtually the same name as a well known TVL resistance site. Despite repeated requests to change the name they have refused, this makes very interesting & disturbing reading. http://www.tvlicenceresistance.info/forum/index.php/topic,8603.0.html

OK let me explain, if you watch live TV feeds... you need a TV licence If you don`t watch live TV feeds... you don`t need a TV licence. Simple to understand ?. If you don`t legally require a TVL , don`t bother communicating with TVL / Capita / BBC. People come to this site to get clear, concise & accurate legal advice . I think if we post advice , then it should be with a good degree of knowledge & a duty of care to the recipient . Yours, is at best, wibble wobble nonsense & could potentially get people into very deep water.

I very strongly disagree with this kind of advice. I also think it is very dangerous too. The best & most effective way is the " no contact " rule. You immediately flag yourself up as a target if you use the WOIRA / doorstep collectors . There has recently been a spate of search warrants issued to people using WOIRA as a method of trying to keep the TVL out. There is absolutely no " loophole" in the law either. You are not legally required to inform or contact TVL & furnish them with any information. It really is that simple. I have had 2 visits in 5 years. I just don`t answer the door to them. I throw the letters in the bin & don`t waste time or energy on the subject. The " advice" in your post is absolutely guaranteed to flag yourself up to TVL as a person who wants to " take them on".

I am assuming you have received a letter from TVL stating that your property is under investigation. These letters are deliberately worded to put the fear of god into people . TVL will send out letters on a monthly cycle to all property`s that are not licenced & are computer generated , they go in cycles of threats.1st you will get the low[ish] level , then the medium level, then they will put you under investigation & when no one responds, the cycle then starts again. If you are watching live feeds then you do need to purchase a TVL, if you`re not watching live feeds then either bin the letters or if you keep rabbits or hamsters, they make good bedding. Never ever phone them or go online to explain your situation. If you don`t need a licence & are civil enough to inform them, they will still keep hounding you . In their eyes you are an evader even if you don`t legally require a TVL..... so what`s the point in engaging with them!. If you get a visit from a TVL inspector [ Capita salesman] you are under no legal obligation to furnish him / her with any personal information. Don`t engage with them in any way, tell them to leave your property & carry on with your life. Certainly don`t let these cycle of letters worry you. If i have assumed wrongly then we would need further information & can then advise accordingly.

Skookum Did you sign anything? , a form called the " 178" admitting liability? . Did the TVL inspector test your TV , was it plugged in & receiving live broadcasts?. He [ TVL inspector] either forced his way in or he was invited in, you can not " virtually " force your way in. I fully understand you were not 100 % & not in a position to conduct yourself in a clear & concise way , this should be the starting point of a serious complaint. Make a full complaint with the back up of your witnesses , i doubt it will have as much gravitas as you state that when he entered the property it was only you & him, so his word against yours, but it is worth the complaint as it will put a marker on his behaviour. Unfortunately they are not pleasant people [ TVL inspectors] & not to be trusted. Don`t talk to TVL on the phone, ignore them. Find a method of payment that suits you & keeps you up to date & in control . I would cancel the direct debit ASAP & look at a payment card if that is a better method for you. Here is a PDF of the TVL / Capita visiting procedures. It is worth reading through & making notes on all of his failures to comply with the document. List them in your complaint , i am sure that if you told him of your medical condition then he was obligated to end the visit . http://www.televisionlicence.info/downloads/documents/2008_08_01_visiting_procedures.pdf Good luck with your recovery.

I would not pay them one single penny. If they [ Summers] arrange for the goods to be picked up by courier , then that is the end of the matter. Even without a receipt , i would not pay this ridiculous so called debt. The burden of proof is with Anne Summers, not you. If you still have a copy of the receipt, ... game over, but even without one , they are on very shaky ground IMO. Good luck & try not to worry

Funny you should say that Conniff, the person she is training can`t cope with the amount of work she gets through,the speed & how well she deals with customers. The trainee is going home tonight & it might be bad news for the company tomorrow. She is only leaving because she wants more training & more responsibilities & to expand her skill base. You would think a company would value that kind of enthusiasm from an employee. Watch this space .

Thanks Becky. I will pass on the information. They are actually very annoyed at her leaving because she is good at her job.

Hi I wonder if any of you could advise on the following. My Neighbour started a new job 6 months ago, on December 1, 2013 the company split it self in 2 & formed a new company . She was Tuped over , with out consultation, no meeting or given any new contract. After a lot of thought she decided too hand in her resignation [ one weeks notice] effective from 6/1/2014. Today she was given a letter stating that as from 24/12/2013 her contract was being terminated. Is she being sacked?, having already given notice can the company then terminate her employment ?. She has never seen her new terms & conditions, been consulted on the hand over or been kept informed . As she had already decided to go , she feels it is a point of princeable to honour the notice period she gave & technically if a new employer makes checks , then she was sacked. Is there any action she can take to enforce the notice period she gave them. She is also being asked to train the new person who turned up today to replace her.

I have to slightly disagree with you here, it is not reasonable to assume any LO is watching " live " TV broadcasts just because they own a TV, you do not need a licence to own a TV. I own a TV but do not watch live broadcasts therefore i do not require a TVL , so i don`t purchase one. What annoys the collection agencies is the legal fact that i don`t have to inform them of my TVL status or communicate with them in any way, this is where i think they want to shift the goal posts. How this new amendment will play out i don`t know, but i think this could be a major own goal if it is going to be left in the hands of TV wardens just issuing PCN`s on little or no evidence. It is up to the accuser to provide legal evidence of laws being broken . Reasonable suspicion, is not evidence & is IMO a legal minefield they could come unstuck with . You`re right Boo , retailers are no longer required by law to give the details of anyone purchasing equipment with the ability to view live broadcasts to the BBC or Capita / TVL. The BBC are desperately trying to bolt on the internet to the TVL, i can`t find the bill i posted [ on here] that was put before the house of lords. Interesting times for us who don`t require a TVL . I will not be buying one whatever plans or schemes they dream up, because i don`t legally require one.

As i said , " if i am understsanding this correctly" . I posted a copy of the bill on this subject that was put before the lords a few months ago [ on another TVL thread]. I also posted my opinion on why & how i thought it would effect the collection of the TVL, i also said i did`t think the bill had any legs but it was a door wedge , you know, aim high & hope for the middle type of thing. Again , if i am understanding this correctly, it will be easier for TVL / Capita to issue penalty charge notice`s than get a 178 signed or have LO`s refuse to engage. It will also depend on what else they can & IMO will bolt on to this amendment as to it`s final transformation & effectiveness. I am of the opinion that it will be the legal occupier that will have to prove he/she is LLF without the 178 form being signed , if they issue a PCN , you will either have to produce proof of a licence or arrange to prove that you are LLF. From TVL`s point of view it would be a real money spinner, LO`s would then pay the PCN if not licenced & legally requiring one, also they would buy a TVL. TVL/BBC/Capita start from a position that you are guilty if you don`t have a licence, this is not about a TV licence per Se, it is about the ability to transform the collection of assumed licence evaders & how to roll the dice their own favour. As i have stated , this is my opinion after reading the bill & the content of the OP, which is in line with what was in that bill.

If i am understanding this correctly,this is the beginning of a new approach by TVL/Capita to make it easier to turn up & issue a penalty charge for assumed evaders. The onus will be on the legal occupier to prove they are not watching live feeds. As it stands the onus of proof is firmly on the shoulders of TVL / Capita. I think this will look like a good idea at first but when they slide in other amendments , this law will become a feast for the yellow jacket brigade to harass people with little or no proof.

I`m really tempted by that pipe, very " elementary my dear Watson ". was looking at something similar very recently. Think i`m of an age now where a pipe would blend in with me personality:wink: Just wondering if it was worth us giving our opinions on the retailers / online stores we buy from & our experiences . I am not happy with one online store at the moment [ delivery time for goods bought] . Thought it might be good if we had had a good or bad service, to pass on the feedback. Is it a goer?.

The CE 7 vapes well, i`m not a seasoned vaper. I started out with a starter kit & then progressed to the CE 7, these are my only experiences of vaping , so, very much a novice.. I like it , good amount of vape, good throat hit. I like the look of the itaste, very modern & sleek. I confess to being very dumb when it comes to batteries & such like. I stopped smoking a good while back but decided to start vaping as i felt i was near to cracking . I like vaping , the mechanics of smoking are replicated in a lot of ways, like preparing a smoke [ i used to roll my own] so i enjoy the vaping equipment.

I vape with an E-go C twist battery & the CE7 cartomizer.I like the tobacco juice flavour , never tried any other. Was looking at the Innokin iTaste V3 iClear 10(S) Kit .

Sorry if this is in the wrong place. Has anyone got a phone number for Sky BB problems ?.

Hi First off, try not to worry yourself about this debt, it is highly unlikely that anyone is going near a court. Water companies can`t cut you off, water is a basic human requirement for survival . I would deal with Anglian water direct, do you have a payment card with them?, if not, i would ask for one. Do you have the facility to pay via standing order to Anglian water?, don`t go down the direct debit route.. You know how much you can afford each month, if £15 is your limit then that`s all they get. No one but a court can order you to fill out an means form, they [ Advantis] can ask, but you can tell them politely to eff off. You control your debt & how much you can pay, not them. Good luck, .... PS , stay off the phone to Advantis, in fact , don`t communicate with them any more ,they will lie to you , deal direct with Anglian water.