Just out of curiosity, do you know what year the PCOL started processing claims online?

Yes, this is governed by promptness, which I need to avoid as the judge has already dismissed the idea as out of time without listening to the technicalities of the case and deliberate non-disclosure of the facts by omission on the part of the bank. I am so tired with it all! I feel like the ping pong ball in a game of table tennis!

Thank you, do you know if 55.19 is governed by promptness? As a first hearing is not a trial I believe 39.3 can be supplanted by 3.1(m), which is not governed by promptness, but 3.7 is and has been quantified elsewhere as 1 month, eeks! I need to get round the promptness as well as have a mandatory issue for it to succeed. There is so much cross referencing between to rules, my head has gone to mush!

Also, just a thought, but if we had been notified prior to court, it would have been paid in full and thus not gone to court, is there any remedy for being deprived of this action?

Thank you Andy and yes, those were the lines I was going down, in particular 13.2 mandatory for defective service, but it sates it is for use in default judgment under CPR 12, which is not a mortgage possession order, which is not allowed as per CPR 55. Although I was hoping it would be the umbrella under which I could quote?

Yes Andy, but I have since discovered Kamali v City & Country Properties superseded it on the jurisdiction issue, which does highlight therein the service requirements under CPR 6, which require that a claimant with reason to believe a defendant is not residing at the property to seek to serve by alternative place, method or out of jurisdiction, none of which was done. Also, my friend is in similar position as Deripaska in Chernery v Derispaska, in that her "usual" address was elsewhere, and she does not have "quality of use" of the property either, therefore the service is defective for these reasons, but it is 2 years down the line. If it were default CPR 12, then it would be a mandatory set aside, but I am not sure on the mandatory CPR section it should come under for a PO given summarily at first hearing, for non service ( and based on non disclosure of material facts to boot)? Any ideas would be very much appreciated?

Thank you Ell-enn for your response, not wishing to confuse you any further, but...... The possession order was granted in 2010, on the back of not correctly administering a concession and in turn, not notifying me, as representative to the mortgage holder (my friend) who was stuck abroad, out of jurisdiction in a hospital bed. The bank had communicated with me on the account since the outset of the mortgage and since April 2009 had held written authority for me to act in the absence of my friend as she was going to be back and forth from abroad doing business. I discovered the order after it had been granted, with no notification of proceedings, or that they had deemed there own incompetences of not being able to apply the correct direct debits of the concession as arrears. I contacted the bank and in my naivety I believed the bank when they told me not to worry that if the arrears were paid it would all go away! I genuinely thought a satisfied order would not be resurrected. In 2011, due to another muck up with the bank, who kept listing the unnecessary litigation fees and charges that should not have occurred as mortgage arrears, which I kept disputing, but could not get to the bottom of. Then whilst mid negotiation of payment of what I thought was the correct amount to ensure the account was up to date, plus the balance being taken as a formal complaint due to the precarious nature of its accrual, the bank applied for a warrant of execution of the possession order. My friend was back out of the country and I had let the property to tenants to maintain the mortgage and they were horrified when a bailiff turned up to serve. They applied to the court for a hearing to find out what was going on and I wrote to the court complaining that they had not adhered to the proper pre action protocol for service upon my friend, who they knew was out of the country and confined to hospital and that the house would be empty. I believe the correct procedure would have been to serve on me as the rep, or at least communicate to me papers were sent to the empty house, or they should have applied for service out of jurisdiction, albeit that hospital may not have been acceptable? That being said, have they communicated to me the problem prior to the court service, I would have ensure the account was up to date and no action would have been necessary. At court, the bank had failed to notify their legal rep of our negotiations, thus I was admitted to the proceedings based on my makeshift POA, which as it was not a deed, was in fact a letter of authority, to explain what had occurred, which I had already outlined in my letter to the court, in which I requested that the order be set aside due to non service and flouting of pre action protocol. The court ignored the request to set aside and entered into discussions about the tenants. We had not asked permission of the bank, although they did not make a loss for that, as they do not charge extra for letting the premises, but charge £300 for asking, which I thought better spent on paying the mortgage, since my friend would return home and it would not be a long term thing. The bank requested the tenants pay directly to them, the judge asked if I objected, I said I did not; and it was decided the tenants were then authorised and that the payment was rent and not damages for occupation. I was so busy trying to get over my agreement with the bank about the account and the complaint and so relieved not to have lost the tenants that I did not realise the order had not been set aside, only postponed or stayed? Anyway, the bank refused to address the complaint and made it almost impossible to service the account, refusing payments, cancelling DDs, refusing to reinstate DDs, applying for DDs when it had been cancelled in favour of card payments and so on. In the meantime, there had also been disputes of my authority. They had chosen not to communicate with me for the original possession, then communicated with me throughout the year, then for the next court application, didn't communicate it to me either. I kept enquiring about the complaint and adding to it, because after sorting out the account and complaint and on reassurances that all court action had ceased, they sent the bailiff in again! This lost us the tenants, they couldn't cope with the stress and uncertainty. After a few months, I wrote to the bank requesting an update on the complaint, this was approx Oct/Nov 2011. They informed me that they had closed the complaint, because they had heard nothing from me, despite my numerous telephone calls and and email after the alleged closure date in April where I had added to my complaint, which had been acknowledged and passed on. They then began to pursue aggressively the disputed charges, demanding payment or else. I requested time to outline the details of why the complaint should not have been closed, with my relevant evidence, this was refused. I was told to pay up all monies outstanding (none of it CMI) or make a proposal by end Jan 2012. I made a proposal that the arrears be capitalised and spread over the remainder of the debt, but that they charges were still in dispute and we reserved the right to continue this dispute. I received no response to this requested proposal, save to say, this has been passed to our solicitors. I apologised for my obtuseness, but could they please explain what that meant? I was told they were going to enforce a warrant of eviction! As you can imagine, shock horror and much protesting, because by this time, I had moved into the property as the tenants had destroyed it and it needed renovating and I was paying the CMI. Thus the only sum outstanding was the disputed charges, subject to the complaint that they refused to address and closed down without telling me. I then joined myself to the proceedings and requested a set aside. The bank protested saying my letter of authority was not valid POA technically to do such a thing and wrapped me up running around trying to get a proper POA, and the court allowed this. Rather than dictating that as the present occupier I was allowed to join in and request set aside. The court struck out my application based on this technicality of not having a valid POA. I had to get in an application in my friend's name to request a set aside. By this time I had compiled a huge spread sheet and totalled all monies paid, all monies due and all charges, fees etc. We had overpaid by nearly £5k, which in my opinion renders us entitled to a set aside on a satisfied order? A local advice agency, albeit had agreed to take instructions and serve documents etc and calculated the overpayment at a much higher amount, he still did not manage to communicate to the court the case in its entirety; and the case was struck out again, due to not being served promptly, without discussing jurisdiction or the overpaid account! Present position, set aside struck out, not prompt enough, me removed from proceedings,now no standing at all & no POA and advice agency pulled out! We have requested an adjournment pending FOS complaint, bank refused to agree so applied to the court, court refused to issue without having the hearing and asking permission of the bank! With the sledgehammer to crack a walnut, the bank is now sending barristers to court at £2.5k a time. I am now left with a court order to file a copy of the complaint to the court and to file a defence as to the discrepancies of account? I am know in possession of Fairways v Palmer, which clearly sets out that any defendant not "physically" in the jurisdiction when served is not valid service. Therefore, if I am correct, the original order should be set aside under 13.2 as of right, without reference to 13.3 with discretion and promptly; or am I muddling it all? I am drowning!

Perhaps I am making it too complicated? Please can anybody answer whether as per Fairways v Palmer, set aside granted as defendant out of jurisdiction, does this mean that under CPR 13.2 there is a right to an order for set aside, without touching 13.3 where discretionary powers and time constraints ensue? Any comments gratefully received?

Can one charge for the cost of a person to assist in compiling/managing case, in addition to time spent as litigant in person? Or if indeed a representative did most of the work, can their costs be put in in their entirety even if it is above two-thirds as it is not the litigant in person?

Hi Folks This is a very long and complicated case, however, I shall keep this to the technical argument I am trying to compile is regarding non-service and setting aside the default judgment. Any information would be much appreciated as we have applied for an adjournment pending FOS complaint into conduct and charges of the mortgage company, but the judge has not granted adjournment and struck out applicatiion to set aside due to not being served "promptly" but I have to submit to him a copy of the compalint plus a defence out of time for the accounting only? The judge has not considered all the facts, partly because we never get the opportunity to explain them and partly because the bank lie! Please is anybody able to confirm whether it is automatically a mandatory set aside when service of court papers is at the last known address, knowingly aware that the customer is out of the jurisdiction and confined to a hospital bed? Thereby not physically in the jurisdiction and definitely not going to receive the papers to deal with them? Secondly, having been provided with a representative to handle affairs whilst in and out of the country, in possession of their name, address and telephone number and they did not make contact with that representative, does that also make it against pre action protocol and CPR6 and thus non-service and should be set aside, regardless of time? Not to mention that despite being in hospital and having a representative, they did not get a reply and nobody turned up in court to defend, it could be easily concluded that they did not receive the papers? Thirdly, if the above happens, is it then fair to use the set aside not applied for "promptly" rule and refuse set aside two years later following lots of problems with mortgage company when it quite clearly is not fair; and on top of that there were disputed arrears and a concession in place at the time that the possession order was applied for and none when the warrant of execution was applied for, they had been paid, albeit that this was in dispute and therefore, the set aside should be granted on the fact that the arrears were satisfied? Fourthly, when the arrears of the original possession order are satisfied, why can they continue to resurrect it for any reason or amount, even disputed charges to go for eviction? I have Fairways v Palmer, set aside due to defendant being out of jurisdiction that I would like to argue, does anybody have a later case that may stop me in my tracks? Any help much appreciated, my brain is fried!

Thank you again. I know there is a highway code, I meant like an update you get on your computer, but in an email giving the changes in all the relevant things that affect us that we would not otherwise know about. I get the newsletter from CAG but that is not the same is it? The idea for me is to be told when something changes by those in the know, rather than having to search everywhere looking for something in case it has changed, which is so time consuming. It is like looking for a needle in a hay stack. Well it is with my brain! JQ

Thank you, yes it is three hours here too, but I went over and they got me! JQ

Thank you. I thought it was so at some time! I know my brain is dizzy and normally I cannot remember things, but when I do have a vague recollection it is usually based on some fact from some time! Lol! I wish there was a newsletter that was sent round with all such things that change that we need to know, especially when it can have such an impact! Well I know now, I learned the hard way! JQ

Thank you. I have a post box just opposite my garden and being disabled it is far easier to post something there than to travel to the post office, or council for that matter. I did not think I would need to get proof of posting for a local letter that was sent in good time! I have cancelled the cheque. JQ

Thank you both They said they did not receive it, it has not been cashed and I sent it 4-5 days after the ticket, so well within the 2 weeks. I thought there was a ruling with the post issue that it is accepted as sent when it is posted in a box? There is no legal requirement for proof of posting. Wasn't there an issue with the DVLA and the SORN notices when they tried to say that they hadn't received them and penalised people, but didn't get away with it? I do not see why should I be penalised for the failings of the postal system, it is not as if I left it to the last minute? Also, with regard to the signage, I thought once upon a time, there had to be the "at anytime" sign with the double yellows if it was not a timed zone? Do you know if it was this and it has changed or was I just dreaming? JQ

Hi folks, I wonder if somebody can put me straight, I parked on double yellow lines with my blue badge, I knew I was going to be more than three hours, but as there was not a little yellow sign saying" at anytime", I thought the yellow lines were only valid until 6pm. Anyway, I now have a parking ticket saying I went over my three hours. I tried to check to see the rules and I think I am in the wrong. So, bearing that in mind I sent a cheque for £35.00 to the local council. Unfortunately, they did not receive it. I have tried to pay again, but they insist that I have to pay the full amount of £70.00 because it is now outside the two weeks discount period. I have said that it is not fair that I am penalised for the failings of the postal system, they do not care! So please can anyone confirm, 1) does there have to be a "at anytime" sign for the double yellow lines to be operable after 6pm and is the ticket valid, and 2) are they within their rights to demand the full amount, when I sent a cheque in good time? Any comments gratefully received. JQ

I have been told that she has moved out of arera and that they cannot tell me where and they cannot give me her contact detail either. JQ

Thank you nolgion, yes I was just doing it! I have searched on surname and gende and there are many, but again it does need more info, but I thought if I clicked on the "speciality" that might give me a pointer, but it only gives a definition with no info! I will keep trying and thank you again. JQ

Thank you again, I have just tried them,they put me on to the GMC and they need more than a surname, so I am going to try and find a letter from her or the clinic and see if there are any more details? At least there is a light at the end of the tunnel! Thank you once again. JQ

Hello rebel11 I have Googled everything, but I only have a surname. The list of doctors only hold GPs and their surgeries, not mental health practitioners, I have tried the Royal College to no avail. I am beginning to wonder why I am not being given this information if it is public info or if it is an acceptable request? Has she done something wrong and they do not want her practising, or perhaps the clinic have done something wrong and do not want me finding out? Either way I am becoming suspicious? I looked at the links thank you, I wonder if the FOI can exclude me from the info saying it is personal contact info and therefore cannot be given? JQ

Hi Folks I am looking to find a mental health doctor who has recently moved out of our area. We have asked at the clinic where she was and they say they do not know. Obviously this is untrue because they would have to forward mail etc; and I have also enquired with all the local mental health admin offices and PALS etc to no avail. I am being told that she has moved out of the area and that they are not allowed to tell me where. We moved into the area and eventually received proper treatment for my daughter after being let down by previous local services several times over. Just as my daughter was building up a rapport with this doctor and she felt she was being listened to, the doctor left without notice. Not the usual transfer of a patient to a new doctor under controlled circumstances, but sudden cancelled appointment, gone, never to be seen again! I was wondering if she had moved to a nearby county where she could be contacted and perhaps seen privately for a short while to help my daughter with her issues, but I cannot get any help to contact the doctor. Can I make a Freedom of Information request about her location or email address? One email enquiry is all I would like to send and if no joy, to continue to try to work with what we have been left with? What are our rights, does anyone know or have experience in this? Many thanks for anyone taking the time to read and/or respond to me. JQ

Thank you ims I too think that figure is a rebate of the PPI, I cannot think what else, mind you I cannot think any more! Lol! However, the other payments I have no idea, there was no other loan, this was the first? Time for a SAR I think! JQ :???:

Hi ims, I hope you are still about? I have been digging and I have found some more info for the paying off of the first business loan (loan 2 when it was replaced by loan 3):- This is from the loan statement 06/05/05 Barclayloan for Bus lending fee £285.00 06/05/05 Transfer to current account £19,000.00 06/05/05 Transfer to Insurance Premium £1,426.99 06/05/05 Transfer to Insurance Premium £5,000.00 - Total -£25,711.99 03/06/05 Interest charged £231.85 = -£25,943.75 01/07/05 Interest charged £233.85 = -£26,177.60 02/08/05 Transfer from current account £20,336.76 = -£5,840.84 05/08/05 Interest charged £275.31 = -£6,116.15 09/08/05 Direct credit refund £6,110.51 = -5.64 02/09/05 Interest charged £7.92 = -£13.56 14/09/05 Interest refund £13.36 = 0.00 account closed On my current account statement it says £20,336.76 to Barclayloan & transfer from Barclayloan £25,000.00 = £4663.24 to spend, therefore you were right they did refund some PPI and jiggled a bit of interest? Does that tally to you? Also, reverting back to the very first loan for which I have had the PPI offer of payment, I have found the original bank statement which says in the following order:- 01/10/04 Payment to Barclayloan £97.48 (bearing in mind first payment was to start on 01/11/04 and would be £465.47) 01/10/04 Payment to Barclayloan £2,224.51 (no mention of Premium or PPI) 01/10/04 Transfer to Tracker (mine) £2,775.49 01/10/04 Transfer to Current account (mine) £10,000.00 01/10/04 Transfer to Tracker (mine) £10,000.00 01/10/04 Received from Barclayloan £25,000.00 Does this tally with the calculations of the very first loan, because I put the monthly payments into the spreadsheet calculator from 01/11/04, I did not take into account these first payments? Will I have to make a re-calculation somehow, or will it all come out the same in the wash? I would appreciate your thoughts ims, or anyone else out there? Many thanks. JQ

Hi ims, I hope you are still about? I have been digging and I have found some more info for the first business loan (loan 2):- This is from the loan statement 06/05/05 Barclayloan for Bus lending fee £285.00 06/05/05 Transfer to current account £19,000.00 06/05/05 Transfer to Insurance Premium £1,426.99 06/05/05 Transfer to Insurance Premium £5,000.00 - Total -£25,711.99 03/06/05 Interest charged £231.85 = -£25,943.75 01/07/05 Interest charged £233.85 = -£26,177.60 02/08/05 Transfer from current account £20,336.76 = -£5,840.84 05/08/05 Interest charged £275.31 = -£6,116.15 09/08/05 Direct credit refund £6,110.51 = -5.64 02/09/05 Interest charged £7.92 = -£13.56 14/09/05 Interest refund £13.36 = 0.00 account closed On my current account statement it says £20,336.76 to Barclayloan & transfer from Barclayloan £25,000.00 = £4663.24 to spend, therefore you were right they did refund some PPI and jiggled a bit of interest? Does that tally to you? Also, reverting back to the very first loan for which I have had the PPI offer of payment, I have found the original bank statement which says in the following order:- 01/10/04 Payment to Barclayloan (bearing in mind first payment was to start on 01/11/04 and would be £465.47) 01/10/04 Payment to Barclayloan £2,224.51 (no mention of Premium or PPI) 01/10/04 Transfer to Tracker (mine) £2,775.49 01/10/04 Transfer to Current account (mine) £10,000.00 01/10/04 Transfer to Tracker (mine) £10,000.00 01/10/04 Received from Barclayloan £25,000.00 Does this tally with the calculations of the very first loan, because I put the monthly payments into the spreadsheet calculator from 01/11/04, I did not take into account these first payments? Will I have to make a re-calculation somehow, or will it all come out the same in the wash? I would appreciate your thoughts ims, or anyone else out there? Many thanks. JQ