workaholic duck
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Everything posted by workaholic duck
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Mark, please do start your own thread! I am mystified why SO many victims are NOT coming forward. We need to publicly shame this appalling company to save others falling into their trap. Well, for me, it is 1st of the month and no money sent to my account. A letter before action is on its way. Mark - as for your early termination fee you have to demand it. They will try and tell you they can withhold it for 180 days. That is up now! Oh, and did you send a copy of your final bill from your previous provider within 14 days? Read the small print on their t&c's (you will only see it on their website - they use the provider's t&c's on your contract!!….just to confuse you). They will probably use that to tell you 'they are not obliged to refund you'. Just another of their clever ruses to keep your money. It truly beggars belief.....get everything in writing (they hate it and most can't spell) but insist.
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No, it was O2 forcing their hand that day. It was confirmed by O2 that the person dealing with my complaint had contacted FC. They may, or may not be monitoring this thread. The sum owing was paid into my account immediately. So, what did I have to act on? How could I send the threatening letter before action? However, now I don't have O2 to rely on since they can't help me further. Or don't want to. Of course I am being played. Like every other sucker.
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Exactly what I said. On the same day as I was writing/sending the letter before action, they paid up. 11th Feb. The next one is due on 1st March. During March they promised to pay my early exit fee.
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Oh, and to add insult to injury I had a letter from O2 informing me my tariff is increasing by 2.5% (within RPI??) from April!
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Yes, Reedy17, do start your own thread and I will follow it. Firstly, commiserations! Secondly, don't give up. Update from me: On the very day I was sending them a letter before action I had a call from FC promising to pay the last 2 months cashback. I argued it should include VAT, they argued back they hadn't agreed to that. Meaning that if I wasn't VAT registered I'd be paying an extra £3.60/pm. I was passed to a more senior (if there are such things) member of staff who seemed to want to pacify me. He agreed to the addition of VAT. They did pay me £36 (without VAT!) that was owed and promised a standing order had now been set up to pay me each month. Being suspicious of why I got a call I contacted O2. After my complaint at the end of January, they 'assumed' FC had paid me and closed the complaint. Meanwhile I had emailed O2 a few days before to inform them the payment hadn't been paid. It must have got picked up and acted on that day. However, despite all this I was told by O2 we had 'deadlock'. Basically, they had exhausted their 'powers' and they sent me a 'final letter' so I could go to the Ombudsman. A few weeks earlier I had asked both FC and O2 to explain the 'contract'. Who wielded the power and who's t&c's did I follow? After pushing both I had a reply from each one. Neither answering my questions properly. O2 said my financial contract is with FC but the service is through them (well, well!)…...yet it's O2 who take my money. FC insisted they use O2's t&c's on the contract (when I questioned it closely) 'because they are almost the same'!!!!! Obviously not, because O2 always give a 14 day cooling off period to ALL customers. At which point I was drained!! So, to sum up I have O2 washing their hands of me and FC making (probably false) promises.
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Thank you. Interesting. I think I came across it earlier which made me hopeful I could exercise my 14 day cooling off period. However, when I tried to cancel, on day 3 of the contract starting I was told by FC that they don't offer it and because I'm a 'business' have none of the same rights (as a consumer). As far as the contract being in durable form, FC argued that they HAD shown it to me at the time of me signing. That's where I said if they did, 'it flashed up and I must have blinked' !! like I said. They are a crafty bunch and have their backs covered every which way. They did email it to me after I'd signed. Yes, I do use the phone for both personal and business. I deduct the personal bits. It could easily be the other way round. But it isn't, sadly, in this case.
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OK, definitely. As I said I'm building up my portfolio. Also, the guy I mentioned wants to come aboard. Hopefully we can muster more.....
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Yessss! I feared it might be too early yet. But, no, there's no time like the present and I am getting pretty annoyed by their tactics. I'm going to familiarise myself with the proceedings after sending the letter tomorrow. I am still collecting everything I can find about them and already have a case folder. Also, at least 50 screenshots from other reviews. Good to know I will have some leverage against them. Thank you!!
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The money is not much yet. I have paid 2 DD's to O2, another due this month. No cashback so far. FC promised O2 and myself that on 1st Feb I would get the cashback (2 x £18 +VAT), one month's free bill to compensate my complaints (no idea how that'll work since it's O2 who take my money!) and the termination fee of £156 to be paid in March. I had expected the termination fee within a few days. No. FC say it can take 180 days!! Gets longer by the minute! Absolutely predictable. Nothing. This will just go on and on like a game. That is why I am trying to plan some sort of action for the future now. OK, I've texted the guy who is also having problems (but not accepting any of it). He has successfully taken them to court several times. Hopefully, he'll join us here. There are obviously 000's more out there!
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Firstly, just as I thought, Sitting Duck! But I am most definitely up for making both their lives pretty uncomfortable. So, they think they're on to a winner here. Well, let's see how long it lasts. Everything so far has panned out just as I expected it to. From the moment I put the phone down on 4th Dec 18. Predictable if nothing else. All the negative reviews relate to the same issue. Reel in customers and keep all the commission to themselves. Hire staff to pay lip service, making promises they have no intentions of keeping. The court papers are very interesting!! Surprised there's only one action not satisfied! Or do others just accept it meekly?? Surely not. I am in touch with one other person so far (mentioned earlier) who is not taking it lying down. Will the court release information to me? Is it public? I can't thank you enough, BF! What may seem like a trivial matter on the surface has undercurrents!
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Oh, sorry, didn't reply fully. I don't have any payments going to FC.
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Yes, O2 take £39.60 from my account by DD each month. And provide the service, of course. I don't know which one has the PAC no. for my phone (I had to ask EE for it and give it to FC). FC do diddley-squat, except I suppose get commission from O2 and bank it all instead of giving me back my promised cashback. I can almost understand why O2 aren't doing anything. It doesn't affect them - they're getting their money! So are FC!!!
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This is a dilemma, which is why I asked both sides to clarify the contract. Neither has. I receive the service and pay O2. FC are supposed to pay me a cashback every month, pay early termination fee and keep me happy. FC also has my PAC no (??). I don't want to lose my number. It really is the contract I want to escape from. I knew from the start it was questionable (polite). Could I argue that FC promised me a cheaper tariff if I went with them? With EE I was paying £23.50 + VAT, including handset payment over 2 years. With FC they offered, SIM only for £15 + VAT. I am currently paying £39.60/pm (incl. VAT). They promised cashback of £18 +VAT/pm. I now own my handset and O2 could give me a SIM only for £13 +VAT.
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Thanks, BF. It's only 2 cashbacks yet (£18 + VAT x2), plus a months free, plus the fee for early termination to EE (that I've paid, £156) they say will be paid in March. As you know this is sufficient for me to never trust them and 3 years will be a battle, I know! If I wait until the end of March it will be more worthwhile. I want to include the 'breach of contract' with a view to legitimately ending this farce, then. Can this still be done through small claims at the same time as non payment? Giving them 14 days notice, though, will likely make them act/pay up...….then it will just keep repeating itself month after month! Like so many others....
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Been quiet on this for a while. But not ignoring it. Complained to O2 at least 5 times now and it finally got attention. O2 contacted FC about not paying cashbacks or early termination fee. FC called me promising to have it paid on 1st Feb, plus 1 months free bill, plus fee to be paid in March. Guess what? Nothing! I have it in writing (email) and have refused to conduct any more phone calls. I queried the contract (in writing) with FC to both them and O2. No replies! My contract is clearly with O2 yet they dispute that and say it's with FC (albeit some sort of ancillary one). Therefore have to abide by their rules. I've asked for clarification about the length of contract dispute (FC say 36 months, O2 have it as 24 months). Each say the other is wrong! I think my only way now is through the courts since neither are doing anything. As the sums are quite low (it's the principle), I think I can wait until the end of March (and see if my fee is paid), then go after them. Unless, of course, they do pay up without prompting!! Another customer I'm in touch with has had the same problems (his much longer, a year or so and several small claims actions that he won every time). He has now been paid but is still going to break the contract by simply not paying them any more, hoping they'll sue him which means it'll be a local court for him (that's his choice, not mine, though). He says their late/non payments are grounds for breach of contract. Can it be as simple as that???
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Thank you, that clarifies a lot! I still don't understand why I couldn't exercise my 14 day 'cooling off' period, 3 days in, when 02 offers it to everyone. In fact, 02 didn't seem to know FC don't offer it.
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I was trying to conclude this oldish thread! ...loose ends and all....husband got the money!! It still beggars belief how all these lending institutions can act so deviously. And for so long. If I hadn't spotted it (something sent to our other address out of the blue) and queried it, it'd still be being paid, no doubt.
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Yes it is, and is what I understood all along. So why must I be bound to FC's restrictive rules? 02 have confirmed again to me that they always give a 14 day 'cooling off' period for all business contracts, 24 month max contract and that they issue invoices directly to the customer. Each month, payment is taken from my a/c for the full agreed bill; 02 then issue a copy of that invoice to FC (to show I've paid) together with the commission as agreed. So, all FC are doing is receiving their dues. 02 do not canvass for new customers directly. Yes, they work with third parties. Additionally, FC stated my contract was for 36 months; 02 have it on their records, from FC, that they signed me up to a 24 month contract. FC insist 02 is wrong and vice versa! Next, I want to know how FC got my phone no in the first place, since I always opt out of 3rd party contacts. I notice on the contract, that box isn't ticked.....if I'd seen that before signing I would have ticked it. I'm also signed up to TPS!
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This was dealt with swiftly as my husband had all the necessary paperwork....and more. Turned out there were 2 claims to be made. With interest totalled over 12k. received.
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Future Comms. (expect you guessed right, silverfox!). So far, signed electronically to what I thought was an 02 contract. 02 do give a 14 day cooling off period for businesses and 24 month max contract. However, realised afterwards that the contract is held by Future Comms (yet I don't pay them anything) who do NOT give a cooling off period and 36 month contract. I found that out when I tried to cancel 3 days into the contract. An adamant no. Thank you, Andyorch for explaining the differences for me. I knew in some cases a sole trader has similar protection to a consumer but found it confusing. In this case, I don't have 'rights'? It's not credit. It's my 'rights' I'm trying to exercise.
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I'm trying to find out if a business mobile contract is different for a Sole Trader (up to 10 employees) versus a limited company? I thought I'd read somewhere that a sole trader has similar rights to a consumer? Basically, it seems, companies have no automatic rights - it's assumed they have access to lawyers, I guess. I have been told because I have a business contract that consumer rights don't apply. Also that 36 month contracts are not banned for business customers? (Ofcom rules 24 month max).....and that a 14 day 'cooling off' period doesn't have to be offered to businesses??
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Thank you BF. I'll be happy to do that. Same here about it still being holidays. I can't stop thinking about this, so whenever I get a moment I'm researching! Really appreciate you responding. Thank you. Happy New Year!
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The DD instruction form came up on my phone screen, showing my bank code, a/c, 02 etc. Just the standard form, same as any. I signed, authorising 02 to take the monthly amount, declaring I was over 18 and legally allowed to sign on 'behalf of the company' and, interestingly, for a minimum of 12 months. (On the contract part it says a minimum of 36 months). My signature was on my phone screen with my finger (like the postman with his signature screen). On examining the 'signatures' they are identical. No way could I have written my name the same 4 times!! I am not technical enough to understand how that works - it was new to me. Quite a revelation! To my detriment I retrospectively conclude. It all happened so fast and I was being hurried through the process. When I later read bad reviews on Trustpilot, someone else said that the other forms 'flashed up' and were gone before he read them.....I think that happened to me, which is why I was so sure I hadn't read any details of a 'contract'. I know that my experience doesn't involve a huge amount of money but others who have been duped in the same way are 000's out of pocket. One firm reported that he hadn't had the refunds promised and it was meaning he couldn't pay weekly wages. Had a reply from Trading Standards this morning saying I have to go through CACS first. They have read it as a consumer issue! Which validates my point that I'm a sole trader (therefore covered same as consumers) and not a ltd business. Any findings will be reported back to them. I can scan the forms, without personal details, given a day or two if that'll help?
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They sent me a copy of the contract that I supposedly 'signed' whilst on the phone - I swear I never saw that at the time! I only signed once, electronically, agreeing to the DD between myself and 02, yet there are no less than FOUR of my identical signature at various parts of the contract! Above one signature it says I am declaring signing as the Director of the business. I would never have agreed to that. I know the difference between a sole trader and a limited company! No phone call recording, though, yet, as I asked for in writing. At the very top of the 'contract' it clearly says 02 in big letters. There is a box for 'retailer' in which they have typed Future Comms. It obviously looks like my contract is with 02, therefore how can Future Comms control it? Both 02 and FC insist my contract is binding with FC. Yet I pay 02?! I tried to use the 14 day cooling off period to cancel but they said it doesn't apply to businesses. I argued the 3 year contract (now banned), yet, again, doesn't apply to businesses. I am not a limited company. I'm a sole trader and as far as I can see, have the same rights as a consumer? They won't listen. They also supplied a summary of what I am supposed to have agreed to - unlimited calls, texts and 6GB data, SIM only, for the gross sum of £33 + VAT/pm, whereby they will refund £18 + VAT/pm FOR ONE YEAR (I never agreed to that!). After 12 months they will re-negotiate the terms, which means another 3 year contract.....it could go on for perpetuity. If I don't re-negotiate, then it will revert to the full £33+++/pm for a SIM only contract (with 02 I could have the same for £13 + VAT/pm for 12 month contract!) I have installed and tested a call recorder on my android phone now. Tonight I have emailed Trading Standards to ask about my rights to a cooling off period as a sole trader. Will wait for their reply.
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Bank Fodder, you have been so helpful, thank you! I am going to follow all your advice and see what I can get out of them. Already I feel more empowered, having more information, rather than earlier when I was panicking out of ignorance. Have a wonderful Christmas and I'll be back once I have more to share.
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