Hi, I’m completing my AQ, using the details on the forum for N150, for Draft Orders and Other Information. However upon reading the forums I have a few questions and hope that some of you are able to advise. Just as an additional note, I have ME/CFS so I can be a bit confused at times (well most of it!) and this means that I sometimes mis-read things, I can take a while to respond, and worst of all I have problems being concise. Please have a little patience with me, I used to be quite intelligent! A Valid Debt? I believe the agreement to be valid, (but CL Finance has only a scan at present). I think that I will struggle to defend on dodgy default, so my defence is purely the missold PPI, which will cover the whole debt, or leave a minimal amount (which could be less than costs), and hence clear the debt easily. This is the approach I wish to take, however I am requesting originals to be brought to court in my Draft Order, etc just to make sure they are allowed to chase this debt! History: Santander (GE money account) sold to CL Finance, in July 09. Token payments stopped roughly at the time of assignment. Two statements Aug & Sept received. In Sept I called CL Finance, recorded the call, without telling them, for ‘personal use’, (I have short term memory issues), during which I said that the account was subject to PPI dispute and who do I contact now? CL Finance advised to contact Santander directly. Within 7 days a DN issued, then 7 days after default date, Court Action started, with no prior notice. GE Money issued DN in late 2008, appears valid except for reference to ’21 days’ to comply instead of specific date, so unsure if this is valid or not (will post docs on here after AQ submitted due to time constraints). Also sent DPA request to Santander, which has not been acknowledged, and no response received. This is well past 40 days, and needs chasing up. CL Finance/Cohens: No Termination letter, no LBA. Claim received in Nov 09, and entered embarrassed defence entered.Prior to submitting embarrassed defence, made DPA/CCA/CPR requests: CPR 18 : Ignored – no response CCA: Agreement which appears to be valid, ‘state of account’, which is a total amount including solicitor letter (not received) + court costs, NO terms (either current nor original), CPR 31.14: Main Docs received are -Agreement & DN - 2 statements. The final statement does not show value in claim, but less than the claim amount (last statement + letter cost + court costs = claim amount referenced in CL documentation) -Notice of Assignment (from CL Finance on bottom of letter, like many others). DPA: Full of errors, however NO previous statements (from Santander), no reference to PPI telephone call in notes, and no telephone recordings/ scripts, ‘State of Account Document’ detailing breakdown of costs. I am currently preparing letters for DPA non-compliance to BOTH Santander and CL Finance, and also letter to CL Finance in reference to the missing documents which are required to submit full defence. I am also preparing N150, to take this week to local Court. If anybody can answer the following Q’s, this will help me tremendously. Q1. I have submitted an embarrassed defence, but omitted to say…..Can I submit full defence later, and can I request to view original docs. I assume this is corrected by the statements in the standard Draft Order request? Q2. There is no reference to PPI in notes, not in the ‘account notepad’ and telephone recordings have not been supplied. Should they have started the claim knowing that the alleged debt was made up of PPI to be disputed? I did not mention PPI in any of the court correspondence, i.e. embarrassed defence or request for information, CPR etc has this disadvantaged me? Are they right in referring me to claim from Santander, if they have absolute assignment? Who should I be sending the PPI claim to? When I eventually receive my statements under DPA/ordered by the court? Is the PPI issue a counter claim to this or a separate issue, and how does this affect this claim – should the amount of missold PPI etc be deducted from the alleged amount? Q3. For the draft order, Can I request: For Santander to fulfill their DPA request as this claim is dependent on it? Q4. In the AQ, section other information, is it possible to state, or should I state: Please note this alleged sum contains missold PPI, so statements are a necessity to calculate the true value of the alleged debt Q5. I am planning on writing a letter to CL Finance, asking why they chose to proceed with this claim considering the PPI missold element. Would this be an advantage to me if we get to the hearing stage and they still haven't provided information? Will this help to attain statements, if I copy this letter in with the AQ to the court? Should I let anybody know at this stage I recorded the initial PPI call, or can I just use the transcript in the documents later? If they pull out, i.e. discontinue as a result of this PPI letter, can I claim current costs? Q6. My DPA letter to CL asking why they have failed to comply with the DPA, should this also be sent with the AQ to show their refusal to provide documents required? I'm sorry if there seems a lot asked, but I have to try to keep it all in one place, otherwise I become rather confused... Are there any AQ experts out there who might be able to help me? I’m completing an AQ for a CL Finance/Cohen’s Court claim and I wondered if there is anyone who could give me some advice on an account which has a disputed PPI balance and other charges on the account (late payments etc). Can a DCA start court action on an account, for which they are aware there is a PPI Miss-sold dispute? I refer to the OFT Guidelines, 2.8i (failing to investigate and/or provide details as appropriate, when a debt is queried or disputed, possibly resulting in debtors being wrongly pursued) but assume they are only guidelines as opposed to law. Is there anything out there which should prevent such occurances happening, i.e. anything in the Pre-court protocols or Consumer Credit Act etc? Hi, This may appear to be a strange question, but does anybody know if it is possible, when a County Court Claim is received, started by a creditor - if it possible to delay the process of submitting a defence/AQ etc for several months due to ill health? I have read on various forums this is the form to use when requesting certains actions (i.e. set aside) on ongoing open cases, and I wondered if it is possible to use this for my illness as I am really too ill to be trying to defend myself against my creditors.

Thanks for the help. I'm sure they are watching, but they must be spending more time reading through the forums referencing their errors, than gathering the vital evidence/documents which we area waiting for!

Thats a surprise ! I think they make the docs up as they go along. My DPA request provided by CL has lots missing and the stuff they have supplied is full of errors! I'm about to start a thread to ask some Q's, just getting it together at the moment. re: the full details in the post #23, Thanks for the reply, it's much clearer to me now that you have explained the judge decided to request they supply the docs.

Hi, I'm subbing to this thread as I am completing my AQ for Cohens at the moment. As part of that I am asking for the missing docs (CCA, assignment, statements etc) in the AQ as suggested in other postings, however I am a bit confused as to how you asked for them? I may have missed something in your posts (I have ME so I can miss the obvious sometimes!), but at what point did you ask the court to get Cohens to provide you documentation? You state the letter came from the court on 16th Dec, was this after you submitted your AQ or did you write to the court separately? I'm all confused as it's quite a lengthy and complicated process having to defend in court, so I am trying to ask advice from as many people in the same situation as possible. I know we all have different senario's but many of them are extremely similar, particularly with the method that Cohens issue claims without valid information! Thanks Me_Too

Hi, Did anyone get back to you on the Default Issue? CL Finance defaulted my account too, incorrectly on experian, but they also created another entry with a completely different account number, to which they are adding entries!! It might be a wise idea to a look for another CL Finance entry on your credit file - you never know what they might do. I haven't challenged that entry yet, I'm too busy writing up my AQ for Cohens on the original account number! Me_Too

Could it be assumed that the start of a claim through MCOL is a type of termination notice, or should Cohens (under the pre-action protocols) really send the termination notice earlier, in a seperate letter, for an example as a LBA? Do the courts frown on no termination notice, or does it just add to the defence (of a long list of other errors Cohens appear to make in nearly every claim they start)?

Hi Everyone, thanks for your kind support and advice. I'll look into searching the threads too, but I can't today as I need to start listing some things to complete th IB form. I have ME/CFS, which is a variety of symptoms, there is the fatigue etc, which are commonly documented, but some of my main ones are short term memory loss, total incoherency on the telephone, and getting stressed if going off of my own 'script' if on the telephone, oh and I'm always !

Hi all, I wondered if anybody out there had any advice. I have received an IB50 form (Incapacity benefit) as it is due for renewal soon. It was posted to me a while ago, but due to my disability I have not been able to complete the form, as I require assistance to complete all forms. I was due to complete this weekend, for posting this week, but due to the snow my partner was unable to get to me help to complete the form, and hence will be unable to post until at least a week later. I called the number on the ATOS letter, which was the local (albeit 25 miles away) job centre ‘call centre’ who deals with my claim. I record all calls for personal use, and to play to my partner, as I am not able to write concise notes from a telephone call. I also get extremely stressed and incoherent when making telephone calls, but had no choice other than to call due to the close deadline – which I will miss. When I made the call the person at the other end just laughed when I said that I wouldn’t be able to meet the deadline, for which I clearly explained that I am bedbound for most of my time and require assistance to complete forms. He was extremely rude, and kept stating that he would need to ‘ask upstairs’ for an extension. (Does he think I was born yesterday? I may be ill but I’m not entirely stupid!). Each time I stated that the delay was due to severe ill health, covered under the DDA, he basically just kept reiterating ‘you’ve had 6 weeks, what about the other 5 weeks’. He wouldn’t budge, and at no point offered to call upstairs, just keeping on about ‘6 weeks’, he repeated the time frame about 10 times during the call and started to be rather condescending, actually that’s wrong, more condescending, as he was it from the start of the call! I clearly explained that I am claiming IB and DLA as I am severely ill and require assistance. To which he said I should have gone to my local office for help, which is 15 miles away. I am totally unable to do that, considering I am not even awake (due to illness) until 2pm each day, and unable to get out of the house (on a good day, which I haven’t had for at least the past 6 weeks) until at least 4pm due to coherency and balance issues, never mind try to explain my illness to a stranger. The more stubborn he got, in stating that ‘upstairs’ wouldn’t give an extension anyway, the more agitated I became. He continued to talk all over me, refusing to allow me to explain (or listen to) the reasons for the delay. This in turn makes me really stressed and incoherent on the telephone, making my illness worse, and completely ruining my day today and further days this week. I did raise my voice, in trying to explain that his attitude on the telephone was stressing my illness and making me agitated (I was trying to explain that I become extremely agitated if I go off my 'script' for the call), but he wouldn't give me the chance to explain, and he was extremely rude - paticularly by talking all over me. Sorry for waffling on, I have an issue with being concise also! Anyway, it continued, and I asked, as a conclusion to the call, if he was able to extend the submission date, to which he stated something like ‘I said I was going to ask upstairs for you but you haven’t allowed me to’, which was untrue he never stated he would contact them as he was using completely dismissive and evasive tactics in his ‘upstairs would say….’ comments throughout the conversation. To which I did get even more agitated, I had earlier apologised and clearly stated that I was raising my voice due to my illness, and he was stressing me causing it to raise in volume, and this is the crux of this story- It was when I asked if he was making notes on this telephone call and he was sarcastic in his response, that I told him I was taping the call! Stupid I know, but I thought I had every right to, as it was for personal use only. At this point, he screamed at me down the telephone that I was breaking the law, and would not listen to me when I tried to explain that it was for personal use only and then he hung up! By now I was really stressed and crying, and called several more centres before being put back through to this one. This time, the first thing the person said to me was “You’re not recording this call are you?” which she kept repeating! It looks like I now have a black mark against me on my records and I wanted some advice. I am really concerned that now I have annoyed this bloke too much, as I did ask to speak to his supervisor (refused!) and for a complaints address before the whole ‘recording this call ’ part of the conversation happened. I think he has completely black marked my file, when it was him who really had the attitude. He was one of those arrogant call desk operatives who talk down to you. I appreciate they are trying to get people off benefits, but on the other hand they need to show respect to those who are genuinely ill. Now I am worried that my benefit records will be marked and that I will be treated unfairly due to what he has written on my file. All I asked for was an extension to complete a form, due to ill health and I got accused of breaking the law, no allowances for my illness and a severe detriment to my health for at least the next week. Can anybody advise, am I within my rights to record this call? Have I broken the law? And am I within my rights to put a transcript of this call in a complaint’s letter re: his attitude and failure to allow me extra time due to my disability (I’m sure this should be covered under the DDA, ie a request to allow extra time to complete the form?). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Me_too

Subbing, as I also wish to ask the above question.....in addition: My situation is that the debt has been 'absolutely assigned' (as per the usual CL Finance assignments noted in many places in these forums) and my understanding is that if the debt is absolute, as CL leads one to believe in their letters, then it is them to whom the claim is made? Can anyone out there confirm this for 24233513afw and me?

Hi and sorry to jump in on your posts, but I am in the same process with CL/HC (old debenhams card) with my initial embarassed defence submitted early Dec 09. I thought I'd ask about the SAR , in hope that others may have some input. A SAR made to CL proved usless, and was non-compliant. My SAR to Santander reached it's 40 day mark over the Christmas holidays. The SAR has been signed by them, and they have not even acknowledged my request. (Most companies acknowledge the request within 10 days and provide details, normally incomplete, within the 40 day timeframe). Has anybody else had problems receiving a response for a SAR request from Santander?

Ditto, I have the same problem and have been searching the various forums today in reference to this exact issue. I have a futher question, which is related to the 2 default notices, apologies if you think I am hijacking your thread but in reference to the two DN, but do you have an arrears amount on the 2nd DN? I am confused with the amounts on my most recent DN from CL Finance. If they have purchased the 'whole' debt from Santander, should a default amount be displayed on the DN? I was under the impression that they purchased the debt as a whole, and that new payment plans are created. Therefore if there are arrears with Santander, are these passed over to CL Finance or are the arrears cleared? Any advice would help, and I think that this may help your defence too?

I have today received from one of the delightful DCA's for BC a copy of my original Credit Card application from the early 90's. What a shock that was! I had requested it through a CCA request(s) and a DPA request - without success and many complaints! I have a few queries, but I wondered if there are any experts out there who have too received such an old copy of an application form/agreement who may be able to advise? It appears that the prescribed terms are on the application form, which leads me to believe it may be enforceable - however: No T&C enclosed (although referenced) Application form is clearly printed from microfishe. There is a border of black on all three documents provided, and all have have a partial number, extracted from my ORIGINAL BC number Attached forms, for internal BC use, state “please check the enclosed application form’ twice in one request, when sending for internal approval I have not dated the application form, there was no date box Front page of application form is signed, and the box states : “Application accepted agreement signed and executed for and on behalf of Barclays Bank PLC – with a signature and a date This is an OLD BC account, it has since been upgraded to a gold account with a different card number and I assume T&C - will this affect the validity of the agreement/application form? I am unable to scan and post up for the next week or so, I have other priorities with a Cohen's defence to submit - and lack of access to a scanner. I just wondered if there were any experts in old BC applications/ agreements who may be able to offer some assistance or point me to a thread with further info many thanks

I know I'm a little late to respond to this post, but I noticed this too on my POC issued the same week. I don't call 0870/0845 numbers so I searched for an alternative number to call, which is when I discovered it was a direct line to the Lewis Group aka Cohens. I did call the court on the correct number, and I did make a complaint to them. The lady I spoke with put it down to a 'printing error' - exactly how can this be a printing error? Somebody has messed up somewhere and she couldn't have given a damn!

I know I'm a bit late in this thread, but I too have had issues with FD rolling a CC into an overdraft. OD was a few hundred pounds, into which they placed over £10 from a CC balance. I have been back and forth to them with complaints letters, along with the delightful Metropolitan too. What I did earlier in the saga, when I received my first calls from Metro, was a DPA request to FD, which they duly provided (after a lot of hoo-ha regarding 'we MUST have your signature', which I did not provide!). Within this request, I received copies of computer print outs which detail the status of both accounts prior to the merge. I'm no expert, and have no legal training but surely this should prove to be quite critical documents in your defence? There would be no harm in getting a copy of this, as this would clearly prove their underhand tactics in trying to grab some money back. I'm not sure if you have a true copy (ie not under a CCA) of your loan agreement, as I have only this past night been reading your 'adventures' with the DCA's. If you have already done a DPA request I apologise, but if you haven't I would say this is your best bet, although a little too late to submit as evidence it might help you in the long term if you are now submitting another 'further embarrased' defence.

Well Done, I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to posting and I have only recently read your thread as I have a CC Claim from Cohens just last week, just preparing my defense at the moment. Congrats, it gives me enough hope to challenge them myself.

Hi everyone, I am sorry this is detailed, but I find it hard to be concise with my illness…..and this is my first creation of a new thread. I have received an N1, County Court Claim form from Cohen’s, working on behalf of CL finance (from a Debenhams/GE money account ‘purchased’ in July 09). For 4 days I have been reading through the many posts on here, as much as I am able to as I have CFS/ME and this limits my ability to spend as much time on here needed to review the best approach which I should take. This also limits my ability to prepare a defense within the timeframe stated (even allowing for the extra 14 days). In summary, I had a Debenhams card (since Dec 05), which included mis-sold PPI, and an additional ‘injury’ insurance (sold on a cold call after a few months of opening the card). Both insurances were still charged onto the account by Debenhams, even after informing them of financial hardship in May 08. Due to poor health I did not notice this. After a period of time, I was informed by Debenhams to claim on the PPI, but this was not actually valid due to the timing of my illness being before the card was taken out. I kept meaning to re-claim the mis-sold insurances, but ill health did not allow me to action this. Due to no salary, and only in receipt of benefits, I informed Debenhams of my situation, on advice from CCCS started to pay £1 token payments. The majority, if not all of the balance which was approx £470 (before July 09) was made up of these insurances/late payment charges. Assignment to CL Finance ·In July 2009, Debenhams sold to CL finance. The only ‘assignment’ details I have is a small box stating this, on the ‘new’ CL finance statement. ·I did not receive any notice of this from GE Money ·In August 2009, there were a few issues with bank payments, when cancelling the Debenhams SO, I did not set up the new CL payments correctly. Hence Aug/Sept payments did not go through. ·A letter dated Sept 15th was sent to home address, re: missed payment, which must be made within 10 days of receipt of letter. I was away from the home address convalescing when it arrived. ·Sept 28 – I called CL Finance to explain, only just received letter as extremely ill. Also to query if my severe illness situation/details was passed onwards to CL Finance from Debenhams when they purchased the debt. (Of course not!) I also explained that this debt was to be disputed with Debenhams, and I was advised to continue that claim with Debenhams and to continue payments to CL Finance. (i.e. they did not wish to know the debt was majority or all in charges of late payments/mis-sold PPI etc). ·7th October 2009 – Default Noticed issued (legit too, I have checked various forum postings), with an arrears being payable on 26th October 2009. ·Dated Nov 2nd County Court Claim from Northampton bulk centre, received Thursday 5th Nov Due to ill health, I require assistance in compiling/posting letters etc, and so sent a letter to CL Finance on 26th October 2009, detailing I am disabled, and require 28 days to action all letters, also including 2 x PO payments of £1 token payments for arrears. Stupidly, as I was nowhere near a post office I post this normal first class and not recorded.This letter has been ignored, and the account was passed the account to Cohen’s before this letter was received. Cohens / County Court Claim I intend to defend the claim (based on what I have read within these forums) and I have several areas of concern: ·The speed in which the claim was made, completely dismisses my inability to respond in such a short timeframe. I know I can acknowledge claim, and send defense by Dec 7th , however this is practically impossible due to my illness and the fact I do not have the information to hand to create a detailed defense. Is there any way I can approach the court for further time to submit a defense, due to my disability? ·No letter before action was issued from Cohen’s ·The value is approx £20 more than the balance on the previous statement (which details interest is 0%). This is just the balance, and not relevant to costs etc. I do not know why the value differs; I have not received any other statements. ·Court costs of £20 have been added, and £50 solicitors costs – but I assume this is normal procedure. ·I have attained a copy of Experian file, I have two entries. One for the original debt, which has been renamed to CL Finance (surely this is not possible - the debt was GE Money), which also shows the wrong default dates. The 2nd entry has the wrong start dates, but clearly refers to the purchased debt, with a different account number, and a different value – but as the entries are for Jul/Aug/Sept they must refer to this debt. (This is purely for info only, as I cannot cope with getting the entries changed now, I will wait until the whole CL Fiasco is sorted out). ·No notice of assignment for CL Finance to Cohens – is this needed? I'm sorry that this is long-winded but I thought I'd try to get as much info in the first post as possible. Whoops...newbie error - I forgot to ask the questions for which I created the thread. I am cutting and pasting, and didn't copy all of the info..... Actions I intend to take, are listed below and I was just hoping if anyone with more experience can let me know if this is the correct approach. I intend to defend on the whole amount, mainly due to the fact it consists of mis-sold insurance policies and late payment fees. ·I have sent a DPA request to Debenhams, should I also send one to CL Finance? ·I have prepared a CPR 18, to request info required. I have opted for 18 instead of 31 as I require copies of statements also, which I do not think are covered under 31 due to them not being stated in the POC. Does anyone have any ideas if this is the right approach? ·I also intend to send a CCA request, to CL Finance, (with £1payment) which ‘should’ arrive before the defense is submitted. Is this appropriate, or too late? ·An additional question in case anybody knows – do I challenge Debenhams for the PPI/late payments or CL Finance?) Other questions I hope other CAG’s can answer: I also wish to write a letter, explaining the following and wonder if this is a good idea? ·I am disabled and that to continue with the claim will severely detriment my health (Does anybody know if there is there any cover under the DDA concerning this?) ·Asking why was my letter re: payments and state of health was ignored ·basically just trying to ask them to stop court action as I am unable to pay anyway, and £1 token payments is all I can afford I have 2 default notices for this account, one by Debenhams ages ago, and one by CL Finance. Both are valid default notices – Is this right? Any advice would be helpful. I know that I have received the claim for 7 days now, so I am keen to send the CPR 18/31 as soon as possible but realise that they will not respond anyway. Is anyone around at the moment who can offer some advice?? I'm about to post the CPR18 to Cohens and just wanted to check this is the correct one (instead of CPR 31) to get copies of the statements? Thanks

Hi, I too have received a County Court Claim from Howard Cohens (Aka CL Finance/GE Money/Debenhams Card), dated 2nd Nov. I have been reading through many of the Cohens posts over the past 4 days, trying to work out if to defend all or part of the claim. I am yet to do the Ack of service, as I am trying to work out which route to take. I follow this post with interest and I will try (as I have not yet created a new thread before) to create my own, in hope for some advice from those in the know on this site, and there seem to be so many who have shared the same experiences, albeit unpleasant ones!

Hi, I am in exactly the same position, they put quite a high value of my CC (1000's) into my overdraft which has a limit of £500. I am in the process of complaining that this should not be allowed as my o/d limit was only £500, and is poor practice for a company to follow such procedures. I appreciate that this thread was a while ago, but I have also read that O/D's are covered by Section 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (the “Act”) and therefore you should receive a copy of your CCA. I am also disputing this at the moment, and preparing a complaint through the FOS. I think there was a recent law change for new o/d's. It would be interesting if anybody knew that facts on od's and cca's. Have you heard anymore in regards to CCA agreement from FD?

If you haven't done anything yet, I'd hold back. Why should they insist the money is paid towards the mortgage, I don't know the answer to that one, I hope that somebody else can help you. What I do know is that they are in the habit of placing outstanding CC debts into Current acc's, which take the overdraft on the current account to an extortionate amount - to an amount which was never agreed in any instance! I believe there is a loophole somewhere in regards to this, and I am currently challenging this practice as I'm sure it should not be allowed. I read somewhere that it is easier for a bank to chase an overdraft debt, than a CC debt (and now maybe a mortgage...could this be why they want the money diverted there??) but I an unable to find what debt forum that statement was in. Can anybody out there can shed some light on this? It may be worth investigating further as to what rights they have in chasing an o/d debt in comparision to a mortgage arrears debt. Oh, and by the way my CCA was a copy of an application form also, without prescribed terms etc.....in the process of disputing mine too. If they can't take you to court with their copy, then how do they intend to get their money? Intimidation, that's how.

Hi, I have had the same problem with the lady you mentioned, it took me 4 attempts to attain my DPA info in the end. You DO NOT have to send you signature to the lady in question . I believe these are delay tactics used by FD. If you would like me to send you details on my letters, upon which they did eventually supply my DPA notes then please contact me directly - I don't wish to add the letters here as then FD would know my identity (and I still have outstanding issues with them and their DCA (Metropolitan) & DG chasing me when the account is in dispute!). Don't give up! I had a perfect account history for over 15 years until I became disabled and unable to work. The vultures were relentless after just 3 months, making my illness worse. I won't let them get me down, and neither should anyone else. We just have to stand up for our rights!