Sorry for some reason i do not have the right to start my own thread? Is this because i have to pay to become a full member? Any way my beef is with the Martin and Co letting agent which were fantastic until check out after 2yrs tenancy. Then they asked for over £600 to be taken from the deposit! I kid you not £200 for garden, because grass was cut BUT not freshly cut?! Then charged for carpets to be cleaned professionally as the damp made them shaded!!(Damp is actually LL problem and he was informed and took care of the damp-just not the carpet damage) Then i tols them to take a jump they came down to £350 ! Charging £80 for a single oven clean when i have 3 quotes for around £45 yet they insist on using their overinflated own contractors. The list goes on- i have offered £150 yet they insist on their quote and cannot breakdown the £150 for cleaning- just cleaning they say. Absurd The question is do i go ADR with the Deposit scheme or just sue their ass for being vexatious!!? Can i get 8% interest from ADR which will take 2 months? Nothing has changed with deposits , LL and agents still use it too redecorate the house to better it. Shocking.

Maybe the property ombudsman?

Hi Papasmurf I won. Settled with a CA. Job done- no more shoddy job and stress. Realised i need to do something more worthwhile in life then feeding a multinational machine that feeds the shareholders and displays pseudo ethical and moral outlooks. So started own charity up- if anyone wants to help let me know- you can even shop online as normal and a sum will be donated. Thanks to all on here for their positive and negative points- it helps to bounce things around. As humans it is our duty to see what's wrong and to say what's wrong- sitting on the fence only gives you splinters:)

Hi Bunty in my experience you are wrong. The panel consists of the judge a person for employers and a person for employees. So technically 33% of the panel are on your side to begin with. You do however need to read up on tribunals and visit a few before you start. Provided you have only the truth to tell when being cross examined then this will show through to the panel- we all know consciously or subconsciously most of the time when people lie- the panel will pick up on this. Finally the unravelling is in the detail- liars can generalise but struggle to recall detail(because it never happened) one or two may be that good but you are likely to come across them in the Bourne Identity. Certainly if you "order to attend" two people + who have to remember lies and the detail, then they will struggle to corroborate their story. Unfortunately the tribunal system is turning into another playing field for legal people when it should be left more informally for the people as was the intention. My view on employers is that they should be more careful and mindful how they behave, let's face it the unethical and immoral prime mortgages that crashed the entire world economy is because of greedy employers! I left uni in 2002/3 and you could get a mortgage broker to give you 100% mortgage up to £250k-with or without a job! Also like most people on here when we have issues at work-which happen- you discuss them and resolve them normally, sometimes this doesn't happen and you feel wronged, then the only way that employers will listen to what is normally an ethical and moral issue is by threatening their financial issues. Which is sad- "ethical and corporate governance" exists in writing only and rarely if ever actioned by corporations--- very much like their own written policies and procedures. I wish you luck and don't be afraid to ask for guidance on protocol and procedure- let us know how it went:) I am not legally qualified, i simply try and work on common sense, logic and reasoning and if this is incompatible with the law then, "the law is an ass"

Papasmurf thankyou for your sound advice that was logical and informative without being derogatory and defeatist. I have a thick skin and dealing with these kind of people(the cheetahs who never change their spots) it's just a matter of time before they behave with little care for anyone else but themselves. I did find 7 lawyers who were willing to take on my case out of 7 approached! To all others who are heading towards tribunal, it would be wise to remember and remind the Tribunals that it is the peoples court, not an exclusive venue for lawyers thereforthing and henceforthing! A lot has to be said for sitting up on a stand sworn in and cross examined whilst having your say, because if you have the truth, then when you order your boss to attend who has to face the same grilling, they have to remember all the lies. That simply wins the tribunal, if they believe you on the balance of probabilities then you will win. It doesn't have to be beyond a reasonable doubt and have confessions and smoking guns--like HR want in grievance procedures:) lol If you have been on the receiving end of an injustice then put it right, go to tribunal and have your say let the world know all about it. It is free if you represent yourself and whilst some people may say costs will be awarded against you-- fiddlesticks- if the tribunal believe there is no case to answer then they should throw it out before going forward or pay the costs themselves!

I know this thread is fairly old now but could some of the possibilities be to sue for personal injury as a psychological injury is still an injury, Post traumatic stress etc. Also could one sue for harrasment- the company and individuals whose actions are seen to be harrassing. Although i do understand that these paths would mean money to pay for lawyers- unless the harrasment was complained to the police as criminal? Just trying to think around the box.

Hey Honeybee Long time. I always have problems:) Just checking to see if there are any happy endings. Perhaps the way forward is too ensure household insurance etc include legal protection. Jimmy

What happened. Surely if a RSI is from employers negligence, can you not sue them? I know you'd rather keep your job but really after the way they behave? Could the amount you win from suing them(provided you could and would win) be enough to tide you over until you find a better job where you are treated as a human? Any lawyers out there who know how much could be claimed for neck/shoulder/arm RSI symptoms? Is it a set amount or considers how long you are out of work? anyone?

I had an old debt arise, it was statute barred and i finally flipped, it was only about £550 . So i wrote them an email Dear Sir/Madam I am in receipt of your letter dated 05/03/2010. I have spoken with one of your operators by telephone months ago as i have no idea what this alleged debt is for. Your operator was to send me details, such as is it a credit card/overdraft etc and details of when and how this debt incurred and the breakdown of it. Too date i have had nothing! This email is too notify you that i believe in the absence of any proof of this debt, which if i remember correctly your operator said was from 2001!(which is well beyond the statute of limitations 1980) then i assume this is a fraudulent effort to extract money from me. If you have details of the above debt as i requested then be kind enough to send me copies, i.e breakdown of debt, where the money was spent(if credit card) my CCA agreement(original/or certified copy of the original). If you cannot and i keep receiving these annoying bullying letters which do cause stress for me and my family then i will take a more robust approach with the trading standards and OFT,IC and the consumer credit licensing company as well as formal complaints to the police. I deem this as having been received by you unless my mail client says otherwise and i give you 14days to respond, either by email or letter with the confirmation that you have written off and closed this account that has been set up in my name. Any other letters of harrassment other than your reply will be copied and used as evidence, a charge will be made against you for my time and stress of £500 per letter and a copy of the letter and my invoice will be forwarded on to the directors of your company incurring further charges. Regards And guess what they responded and apologised, clearing the debt off:) Honestly i think the debt was from 10 years ago from an overdraft of £30.

Hey Honey Bee It is worse then before. The grievance has put my head above the parapet and they are taking pot shots which is fine. Until meeting with HR when they lied about a few things about my work. Big no no as i can see they are setting me up to fire me ont he basis my work rate is not good enough. However i have the docs and proof to show they lied and in fact my Work is still exceptionally spiffingly fantastic as always. So have meeting tomorrow with HR to show docs and i guess demand an apology. Wish i could insist they are fired for lying. I'll tell you and anyone else out there reading, if you have a valid claim for a tribunal then do it, go through the grievance process as per normal, maybe there will be a result...more than likely not. Then agree to disagree to their findings and go straight to tribunal, don't do what i'm doing, going in to work to be victimised and harrassed daily this is more stressful then preparing for a tribunal. Anyway will keep up the righteous fight to be sure to be sure.

So they are ramping up the gears, not allowing me to have training but other people can, moved desks to other end of department. Trying to pick holes in my work and lying about my work rate. I have requested a reduction in workload some 8months ago which has not been actioned and in fact got added too soon after my appeal was finished. Surprise surprise:) Changeed my contracted hours without consultation, and other individually minor issues which all add up. My question is can i make a formal complaint under victimisation and harrassment laws as the ongoings have been extremely stressful and the ongoing excess workload has caused immense mental stress and physical injury to the neck,shoulder and wrist. Is this a breach of the Health and Safety Act and leaves my company liable for prosecution as well as the individual that is harrassing and victimising me for a civil personal injury claim?? Any other fire power will be helpful.

HB how are you sweety. I'm growing in strength although often get that feeling that it is me and not every one else;) Keep up the good work, just read the flattery you got in the UKPC thread.

I'm not a fan of CRB checks because it is bureaucracy gone wild. If i was in the above innocent situation everyone and their dogs puppies would know about the injustice. I was most perturbed when my Child minding wife had to have a CRB check and so did i as i'd be another adult living in the same house.At the time having spent a few years and still in the Mets finest. I was most perturbed that i HAD to have this CRB check(fair enough i didn't have to pay for it so i never kicked up a fuss) I think two lady constables were taken to court for "child minding" without a CRB check! That wacky council in North London Herts, tried to ban any mums and dads who weren't CRB checked to enter into the public/council play area! I tell you bureaucracy gone mad, knee jerk reactions that makes all of us who work with kids, want to work with kids, GUILTY until proven otherwise. This really is sad in a society that assumes guilt rather than innocence. A society where effectively i can accuse my neighbour/teacher of my child etc of being a sex pest/rapist etc and they will be part burned. Have we not regressed some few hundred years?? Or am i just not getting it??Is it me? Yes i know if something happened to my child or loved one i wouldn't be happy but i put things into perspective, we hear about the paedophiles and tragic murders by Ian Huntley, the kidnapping of kids etc which are all sensationalised in the media so it seems we are surrounded by sex fiends. In reality i think i have more of a chance to win the lottery twice in a row then it too happen to my kid/loved ones(touch wood). And whilst i have gone completely off topic, i'm not a fan of the DNA database. Yes if there is a person who

This annoys me intensely! Logic and common sense seem to be for the French only. Clearly if the person in question is innocent as he was in a pub with many witnesses and CCTV as described. Can you not make a formal complaint to IPCC, can you not sue the Police for wrongful arrest(going rate of compensation is around£1000/hour of liberty lost.) I understand SarEl "but that is irrelevant since the information is correct - he was charged" However he was incorrectly charged? You cannot go around destroying peoples entire lives on hearsay evidence. The malicious accusation from the person and the police misactions are both at fault in my view and both should be rigorously sued! I am in favour of innocent until proved otherwise, it makes me wonder how he came to be charged before interviewed and it all cleared up with the evidence gathered? I also agree the law is not fair, it does get fairer though the bigger your wallet and the better and more lawyers you can hire.

I have tried the ladders and not very impressed at all. I guess the litmus test is why aren't the big recruitment agencies doing this, the likes of Adecco,Manpower,Hays etc. The ladders get paid by both sides i assume and that's how they make the money, i never went as far as getting a job with them so don't know if they charge a finders fee as well. My opinion is you don't need to pay to find a job over 50k.I assume that the ladders just search engine all the over 50k jobs and arrange on their website? If like most recruitment type agencies they have 100 jobs advertised then about 60 of those would be taken already. Another one i avoided is the international job seekers one, they do the same but don't help with visas etc, just put your cv forward

True, maybe you can list the numbers calling with your service provider so they can be banned:)

ooh forgot to mention i have a Data Protection issue, everyone in our department can see your mobile number(not mine:)home number, full address, DOB. It is on the intranet so all of IT and Managers can access it as well. Crazy old world

Hi Data protection act, privacy over giving out your husbands phone number. Tough one, lots of effort for little reward, as papa says, they may be told not to do it again. Personally no one knows my mobile, if they did find out and call me on it, then i hope they won't be offended when i tell them where to go. Bullying needs to be detailed each time the manager victimises and harrasses your husband. Overzealous managers? Perhaps after only a few things having happened but when you build up a diary of continuing little niggles then it is simply serial bullying. Keep a diary of every incident.

Hi Papasmurf/et al I like your thinking and honeybee and SarEL. All good points. I have not gone into this deciding to go to Tribunal i am merely thinking ahead of the game at possible areas and scenarios where it will end up. Clearly now i have had my appeal heard and received an apology for the company not adhering to it's own policies and procedures. However, as expected SArEL they fell short of admitting breach of contract and just said i had been seriously misled. SDA they found not to have occurred and accepted the managers answer that it was a throw away comment with no meaning or if it were a male then male reference would have been used. So all in all some concessions but no admittance that would make them liable as one would expect. I have accepted this being reasonable and conciliatory and knowing that the managers behaviour is noted, again(apparently there has been years of grievances raised against this manager) As can be expected now the victimisation and harrassment has been going on for a few months, the little niggly things. The allowing peers to have training and not me, the piling up of work and then overloading the work amount on me and informing the rest of the departments that it is my fault the works not being done. The catch up meetings with my peers and trying to get them to say i am causing a bad atmosphere in the department. The isolation of me as no catch up meetings for me. The one PDReview was the projection of guilt on me for not doing a report or telling someone it was not done--because i was in hospital?!The racist remark(which i guess they would just explain away and say if it was any other race the remark would have been just as predjudiced,derogatory and demeaning?!!LOL) The reshuffle of seating plan which sees me furthest away in the corner. The open attempt at humiliating my excellent work by taking away a percentage of results achieved(for no known reason) to lower my score and parade this in front of a HR representative(By the way SARel i have learnt that HR are there to 1)do as a manager tells them 2)Keep the company out of the courts) In short as expected. I cannot stand around and let this happen so am making notes and have quite a history, frankly i understand what i am dealing with a sociopathical serial bully. History shows that 4people under her have been bullied out or made redundant in the last 3years. The department has a sickie average per year of 15days per person! Peers are pulled in to prearranged meetings and shouted and sworn at. the list goes on. It does rub me up the wrong way because the reason i joined the special constabulary was to protect people from the bad people, the bullies of society, or get those people of the streets and in to HMP. The problem is that as some have raised, could they just dismiss me(under mutual trust has been lost) with one month notice? If they do that can i then raise an unfair dismissal with regards the harrassment and victimisation and bullying? Also if they do that can i get a high court writ to order them to not dismiss me? I work in a multinational company i like my work i like my colleagues and every one else just one sticking point is my manager. I don't see why i should leave, especially as my manager, like most bullies do it to hide something, in this case my manager does not have a clue after 6years how to even switch on the software we use, let alone use it, her "qualifications" are not what she makes them out to be, my manager has serious inadequacies. Should i list the events that have happened and send to HR again under a formal grievance, citing health and safety act 1974? Should i do above and work from home until such a time as the work place under the HSA1974 is safe and free from bullying and psychological pain/hurt? If one of my peers reported a case of bullying(of which the manager said she behaved like that because she was ill LMAO) to HR unofficially, does this mean it is unofficial or is it the duty of care of HR to ensure proactive steps are taken to investigate the unofficial complaint, especially as it impacts on the HSA? I appreciate your help, because like most consumers we are too poor to pay a top notch professional to act for us or advise us, yet our moral code of conduct must remain robust and part of that is too not stand idly by whilst evil is committed. How can i look my daughter in the eye for the rest of my life and know i did the wrong thing by doing nothing, yet try raise her correctly and preach her morals and ethics that i cannot stand up to myself.!? I have been to tribunal before when all the staff were asked to do something that was dishonest and later turned out to be illegal as well. I was the only one to refuse and the only one fired, albeit the reason for firing me was made up. That took nearly a year to resolve but went to tribunal for 2 days and won simply on the basis that they believed my version of the events and not my managers. WHY, simple i told the truth and the facts as they were and my manager had to remember the cacophony of lies. Also i had a decent barrister who asked the right questions, subpoeaned the right people.! I would and do hesitiate to go down that route as it is very stressful(although i doubt the 2nd time round would be as bad) I fear i'll end up there, because of my employers actions since my appeal. Time will tell.

Thanks for the input. I am putting my side across to the forum here, specifically to see how and where it is shot down, i am taking in what you guys are saying as well, agreeing in some instances and not in others. What really is my sticking point is a)their actions did not pass my logic - for example if this temp was/is so good then why not follow company procedures and let any internal candidates apply(half the team would have liked a chance too)The temp being so good for the job would in theory ace whatever criteria they use to choose. Thus not causing resentment amongst the team as at least everyone would have had a fair crack or seen to have a fair crack. Instead they placed someone who has no qualifications!Has experience as near retirement age, but not in the sector we operate in and also hasn't worked full time for the last 7 years. B)The result of their actions will lose them half the team with over 20years experience. The result of their actions have left other staff in tears as apparently no one has ever been promoted internally over the last 9 years- although there have been 5 positions filled. C) It was admitted i would be running the team up north yet when the move didn't happen i suddenly didn't have the requisite skills to even be considered. This is illogical. Thank you djhutch well written, disagree with my case but offer alternatives. I think the rope is now well and truly out there for either me too hang or perhaps if the Senior managers don't like my manager to hang them?But i do expect to be fired tomorrow for my appeal- or any other excuse. I've come to terms with this being inevitable. I do disagree with SarEl(respectively of course:) when he says i have no case, of course i have a case, i can raise the ET1 and go to tribunal there's my case, what i think you are saying SarEl is i have minimum chance of winning my case, However just so long as the case is accepted to tribunal and i understand it has to be 99.99% of the time. Then the proof is with the people involved and this would be an exciting challenge for an experienced barrister to weedle out the truth and show off the lies that come from the decison makers. i would order them to attend and question them SarEl, and they have covered their tracks and lied so much they will be found out It is one thing to be in the manager club at work and cover each other,it's another thing to be sat all alone sworn in an dbeing "cross examined" by a professional. I have the luxury of being a simple man and therefore only tell the truth There is also the matter of a questionnaire to be sent for them to fill out in discrimination cases, i doubt all three departments would get it together to cover lie. Then i may be wrong,,,,, but the timeline of events and laws of logic are all in my favour, aren't tribunals about the "basis of probabilities" that one party is telling the truth more than the other?

ooh i forgot, i agree i have no grounds to force them to adhere to the policy and procedures or to enforce them. Legally they don't have too either i believe.Although it doesn't look good in a tribunal. But if they don't in this instance enforce the policy and procedures which meant the manager/s committed 7 cases of gross misconduct and will not be punished. Then if in the future for instance i don't(or any other employee) adhere to a same policy and/or procedure and they do enforce it(after all my cards are now marked) and dismiss me. Then is this not unfair dismissal/ victimisation?

SarEl i clearly don't get the sex discrimination thing then. What is evidence in sex discrimination? Surely being told the promotee was able to perform an action that is soley reserved for the opposite sex then i, being male was discriminated against, not because of my ability to do the job but because of being born a male. This as i understand is unlawful discrimination the evidence is what was said, simple. Surely now it is down to the employer to prove otherwise, and to try to flippantly explain it away is not a defence or a legitimate reason but in fact back an attempt to back track on what was an honest admission which is in fact discriminatory. Just as i understand if for instance someone said something to me in a derogatory way which intended to stir up hatred about my catholic religion then that is illegal. It cannot be justified by saying it was a single case of incautious use of vernacular and perhaps offering a reason that if i was Jewish they would have used that term instead. I'm sure you are more experienced then i am in employment law and tribunals SarEl and perhaps you are even of the "learned profession" but i don't see that it is not discrimination as you say. I do however appreciate your input.

Hey Papasmurf thanks for the input, i believe the Act 2010 doesn't apply as the grievance was pre October. SarEl i hear what you are saying but disagree, my role as supervisor was taken over by the temp, when i complained breach of contract then the next day the Temp had a new title, that of manager. And so they dodged the breach of contract by doing this. which in the alternative i grieved about the equality criteria and the remarks came up as described which yes you look at as trivia but which i look at as continued evidence with the rest of the history balancing the probabilities in my favour. Also i have emails from directors saying how shocked they were to have a grievance from me. It turns out the only people who were considered briefly internally, were below me and both female. As for alienating my employer, to late they have alienated me. i also don't need such thick skin as my peers understand the issues and many been in the same place over the years. Perhaps SarEl/Papasmurf a questionnaire be sent pre tribunal to establish the details? What do you think about the breach of company procedures which constitute gross misconduct? If they don't enforce it, then surely that gives rise for anyone to ignore the policies?

Firstly thanks to HB and Ida for the thread advice and moving my thread. Thanks to SarEl and Papasmurf . First i agree with SarEl that employers can hire and promote who they like and fire who they like and face repercussions if any afterwards. I understand this. Let me expand My first grievance is breach of contract as this person was placed in my position. I took this position with the Senior title as "according to previous redundancies i couldn't officially be called a supervisor/manager" so in written contract i have nothing that depicts my position but have been acting in this position for over a year. Then a temp was hired for 3months- i queried this with my boss who told me it was because the department were moving up north where i would be recruiting, training and running the new team, so the temp was going to be running things at the current location whilst i put in place the team up north. Then the decision was made not to move departments and a meeting was called to say the temp was promoted to permanent position and would be running the team. I queried this in the meeting by asking what criteria they had used. I then requested an informal meeting the next day with my line manager to specifically discuss the promotion and it was here that i disputed the reason the day before with facts and figures(i do all the reports so know) My line manager then said that despite that what she really likes about the temp is her ability to mother the staff etc Now maybe SArEl it was an off hand comment but in the context of the meeting we were in and the fact that the reason given for the promotion was rubbish as proved. Then i can only conclude that this was prima fascie discrimination on the grounds of sex (in a way proved by the absence of evidence for the promotion and what was said). I also raised a grievance that the companies policies and procedures on promotion and equality were not adhered to at all in this process(i know SArEl legally they probably don't have to be followed) BUT they are there for a reason and not following them could very well mean the employer intended to discriminate in the first place. They also, by not following the Policy and Procedures according to the same employee handbook committed gross misconduct on more than one occasion. So that's the shortened version, as for quit while i'm ahead, oops too late sent the appeal today. I know i'm not making friends in management but i did not relocate my whole family 100 miles for a job that are dime a dozen where i was living i relocated for the advancement of my career and the role i was hired for(although that is only verbal contract now and continued evidence of working in that role and evidence from recruiter)Any promotion chances won't happen for at least another 5years(probably 50 years in my case:). But the overriding factor is the dishonesty from my manager, who only bothers to actually work 2-3 days a week and the ideas i brought with me from my previous role which would greatly benefit this company have not been used for over a year because i found out my manager did not pass them on to the process team and in fact used them for her own application in a new role she has carved for herself. So i have proof in writing that the manager said the discriminatory things. Would that with the background of the context they were said put the burden on the employer? Papasmurf i work in office environment for multinational company and no i have no access to any legal aid, not even on my home insurance:( SArEl i do have double thick elephant skin i used to work frontline in the police. Hence perhaps i am pigheaded but when i see things that are not right,well they just aren't right, perhaps with a pregnant wife and 2yr old i shouldn't and just bury my head in the sand, but that's not right. Any thoughts on above would be great any constructive critcism too is appreciated. regards Jimmylesaint

At one stage ATOS used medically trained fully qualified doctors, about two years ago they started replacing doctors with skilled nurses(saving money yes) Being in the know, a doctor would come in and pick up the case files for the day(if the files made it from wembley) and in some instances there would be cases like your wife and worse.Which clearly require a home visit. Don't blame the doctors, they will if they can cancel the visit and rearrange a home visit. The problem is some flunky bureacrat(or more likely a junior office worker with no medical training apart from the knowledge of the correct dose of cannabis to take for a chilled night out) has put the files together. Call them up and tell them you want a home visit. Better still ask to speak to the doc who has your case file and tell him your wife is too ill to attend. You talk of recording things, but i'll let you know the docs have a set form too follow and do non-invasive diagnosis/assessments. Any people they fail just appeal to a tribunal of .... yes bureaucrats with no medical training.