Opened perfectly for me. I personally hope you come out of all this winning. Mitts crossed! Michael.

Is this an amount simply charged to a bank card or a DD? The former means you can call your bank and reject the money call and the latter, you just cancel it. If it's a call from a card then after the charge call the bank and explain the reason is you cancelled it (which I think you said you did). This reminds me of ZoneAlarm - ahem they like called for renewal subscription literally 8 weeks before the end - a swift call to them had the money refunded. Michael

.... which is one of those good reasons to ensure you check CRA records. In theory they cannot do sneaky things but it does happen. Oh, what happened to the belief many years ago that banks were to be respected and held high levels of integrity?? Michael

Douglas16T - Brilliant advice there and I think I might use that DCA letter!! In fact great advice, always remembering that these people will decide 'you know a bit' once you send letters like them out! hehe Michael

With 'hard talk' you can often get these places to refund those charges. Well I did with my £32 () and now I have to work on Cap1 for the same, in their case £12. AFAIK charges should be relevant to costs and with Cap1 I am paying off the card to closure but missed a payment. So my initial request was to ask for the charge to be refunded and was refused. There followed a heated (on my part) strip down of this 'Customer Care' department they mention. I asked what care had I been shown over the last 8 years to a silent reply. In fact I asked why there's a so called human talking to me who cannot make a simple decision to repeated silence. So to ensure I get me £12 worth I will now complain in writing, and again and again. LOL Michael

Yes I agree very confusing. Maybe you could call them (or better still) write to them and enquire. They say they 'intend' and in reality that should not be a fee. They cannot charge you for entries onto CRA's BUT you really need to check what entries are made and that means do a subscription or send £2 a month to each one. The problem is that there are 2/3 year intervals before those (NON default) entries fall off. They update CRA entries monthly and as I said before are normally 6/8 weeks behind. They will eventually enter Defauls if you make no payments or do not agree a solution. One thing is important here is that if you correspond with them you MUST get assurances if you agree anything that a DN will not be issued - this is in fact unlikely as it's more procedual than anything else and timescaled. I'm guessing from what I see that you have not paid anything into the account meaning NW are convinced (unless you discuss it with them) that it's being allowing to lapse - Current accounts are not the best to allow this to happen to, unless you totally dispute what is owed. The problem here is that you had an overdraft and they can call for full payment on demand which they are doing here. I am still rather concerned that they have charged you £30 attributed to a Default that is not formally actioned yet. I have to ask what contact you have had with them and have you discussed or come to any agreement. I however afetr all this see not reason for you not to be refunded the £30 as you can ask them how they warrant this charge (forget the blurb they'll tell you about T&C's). Michael

I apologise - however all fees are called 'Default Sums'. I smiled on reading it again because I've never heard of a bank charging a fee for a Default. I somehow do not think that's in their T&C's (but I could be wrong). In the end they are after you paying them back - to me charging fees on top is rather pointless. By putting the Default on your CRA they've not exactly held out a carrot for you to pay them anything. Michael

Forget the reading and writing they certainly tell you a lot on the phone. Their training tends to be, 'Okay boys and girls we are here to extract every last penny out of the bas***s in any way possible. Say what you like to them they are nothing and after all that's where we come in'. The wording probably a bit different but it means the same. I can still remember a strange named DCA using expletives to me better than I can when I'm really mad! LOL I never did pay them. Michael

Once it gets past 4 (or even more) then the DN will kick in. Banks tend to run 6/8 weeks behind with their CRA entries. Their letter tells you it's there intention to rather they have done it. The 'Default Sums' are not a refernce to a default notice but what they are called these days to replace things like non payment/unauthorised overdraft charges etc. Why some bright spark decided to call them that I do not know. Michael

CORRECT! hehe Then they think again about their threat tactics too (well hopefully they do)! Michael

Okay firstly have you agreed you owe them what they are asking for? Did you have valid reason to stop paying? Check the entry dates on CRA's (Experian/Equifax and 'maybe' Call Credit). Next if it were me to do a SAR which will cost you a tenner (postal Order, no cheques) to Black Horse (poor end of LloydsTSB) and send it 'signed for' (get the slip at the Post Office when you buy your postal order). Once sent they have 40 days to reply with all the details you want from them. Have a look on here for the letter format and what to request. Make sure you request notes/transcripts they made. Banks tend to send out ONLY what is requested so be thorough. You'll eventually get a large (maybe massive) envelope with what you asked for. Go through it with a fine tooth comb. Check out the default notice and final demand for errors, again loads of info on the site for that. I keep saying that these days CCJ's are not always what banks use as they have effectively stopped you getting credit for 6 years by the DN entry alone. Whatever happens do NOT let Lewis collector 'one' single step into your home if one does arrive on the doorstep and make no admissions to them either. From now on, as has been mentioned communicate by letter alone, no more phone calls. That will delay and maybe eventually solve the problem long term. Let us know how you get on. Michael

I guess this debt is now registered on the CRA's with a Default Notice? How long since the DN was issued (or better still) since it appeared on CRA files? Personally I have no experience of Lewis but there are other threads on here about them. The biggest problem is that only a small fraction of things ever come to light. In a way people are still reluctant to speak openly about how much they owe which pleases banks and DCA's no end. Michael

Mackenzie Hall ... Nightmare people who are probably last ditch attempts, often of the past! Example: Recently started to get letters referring to a debt (if I can even remember it) well over 7 years old. I decided to 'play' and called them. I told him that apart from it being, if at all, ever existant that it would be statute barred. The man declared that they will call at least once a week and continue to send letters until I settle the debt. The fact it is SB does not mean they cannot still persue it. Hopeless even bothering but I have to say it was amusing call them and me being me enjoyed the mind testing. Their manner is like all other DCA's and that is to attempt to scare the s**t out of you! Conclusion : Ignore LOL Michael

If there is a DN entry on a CRA all that will happen if you clear the debt are the words 'satisfied' that will eventually appear. The DN will however remain on the CRA file till it 'falls off' after 6 years. This is always the 'downer' to people who slipped up, had a DN issued and entered, then payed it off. Not really a thanks for paying it off as any potential finance provider will see the words DN and normally ignore anything extra. Michael

One should be aware that that 6 years begins from the DN entry BUT (always a 'but') you must not do any communicating about the said debt during after that time. If you do then the 6 years begins again irrelevant of the issue date of the DN. The motto here is that 6 years begins when communications about the said debt terminates which will mormally be a few months after the initial entry. A bank can keep spodradic communications open for years and you will never see the DN dissapear although it will (in theory) from the CRA files after the 6 years. A bit of a grey area on that issue. Whilst on CRA's - and a bit off-topic - I think the new series of Credit Expert TV adverts are questionable under the ASA requirements? Michael Michael

NatWest a few years ago did exactly that! They began their CRA entry 2 years 'after' the DN was issued to me. Easier said than done to get it removed I can assure you! Michael

I have often said that a bank is cunning. A DN is as bad as a CCJ in the eyes of any potential creditor. These days a bank need not bother with court but just leave the DN there and continue to pressure you. If you feel brave their view is that you can take them to court. They are fully aware that by doing so, you'll be doing all the 'donkey' work whilst they just sit back. To take a bank to court over say, a small error on a DN might well put you at a disadvantage. I feel a lot of this is so sad. I was a person brought up to respect companies like banks. These days with their aggressive manners, that type of belief long ago left me. I have a great example of two letters sent 3 days apart both offering '7 days' but opportunities to call within '14 days'! To top it all they regard the same CC account with totally different views and options! I like to feel this has more chance in court to humiliate them rather that the wish that some nice judge will take pity on me with an erred DN. Michael

BUT the DN remains on CRA files I bet! The same as a CCJ in the eyes of any potential finance provider ... for 6 years! The challenge of course is to get the DN entry removed. VERY much easier said than done. Michael

I think you need to read those rather 'greedy' letters. I bet on this occasion they 'did' mention 'default sums' rather than 'default' alone. In fact it was AFAIK changes to the CCA made by 'we know who' that required/forced that terminolgy to be used. To me, as others it sounds 'heavy handed' but is in fact just 'words'. I currently have a case where a DD has failed, whilst my fault I'd try and believe it was the Bank Holiday that made me misunderstand. In my case, for an interest free repayment scheme they have charged £32! I'll, of course question this! LOL Michael

....and bankruptcy over £750 outstanding - They might wish me thinks. I like the 2nd one that says to 'avoid default', when I'll bet the CRA files show a DN?! I really think these DCA's have spent so long on scaring the hell out of people they have lost the plot. In fact I think they should all become MP's too. LOL Michael

If it were me in this situation, hang on I AM in this situation too, then I just sit back. The DN will remain and as I stated you'll not get the DN removed and no CRA will do it either. If anyone can suggest a sure way to force these things to happen then I'm 'all ears'. If you're expecting an apology that too will be elusive. Their attitude is simple, 'We are right, you are wrong no matter what and we will continue to persue you (keeping just within the law) to wear you down because we can'. Michael

LOL I also got a letter saying 29th March for me. Don't you love the plain white letter with simple to the point black type. Of course the mention of trading style of MCS is mentioned - Scare tactics from HSBC the, erm, (non)listening, bank! Then they let themselves down by using a TNT envelope. Michael

You will find that HSBC will NOT do what you want/expect them to. The last thing they will do is remove a DN and you are probably on their call list, enter stage right, India, Malaysia and The Phillipines!. I've said before often that the new easy and cheap way is not bother taking you to court because they know they might not win. However if you take them to court 'they' have a better chance of winning. Think of them as the spider and (you the) fly. Your options are to weigh up what you feel will work best. Since the charges case failed, banks seem to have started down the road with the heavy hand manners. If you talk to whoever calls you from a 3rd world country be aware that they have no discretion and cannot see all of your account. You will probably be driven to depair communicating unless like me you like to 'play' with them? Sorry I'm not being too helpful here but having experienced what I have stated 1st hand I've now left it to them to do all the moves. A SAR might be a wise action if not already done. Michael

Seriously keep an eye on you CRA files. If you see them enter a search as 'Oustanding Debt' get complaiing to the ICO. They are supposed to search for address confirmation only as 'Credit' searches are seen (for 2 years) by potential lenders. Take no nonsence and complain and although it'll take months these low life people need teaching a serious lesson about basic professionalism. Michael